I want Detroit to draft Shabazz

[ImHeisenberg]

Watching GS I got the sense that Shabazz could do for us what Barnes did for them. Barnes was also picked 7th after being labeled a potential #1 overall pick out of high school. SB Nation did a comparison and the numbers are eerily similar when you compare Barnes' sophmore season at 20 yrs old vs Shabazz' freshman season at the same age.



Both could end up going 7th too if we draft Shabazz.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/5/18/4 ... son-barnes

Good post, Goldtop.

Shabazz obviously had lower assist percentage, but also a lower turnover percentage as well.

It's also worth pointing out that Barnes had three other first round draft picks with him on that team (2 of them lottery). Shabazz didn't have a supporting cast like that. These are the drawbacks of choosing your college based on playing for your hometown team. I'm not a KY fan, but he would have been better served going and playing for Coach K.

[ImHeisenberg]

To be honest if burke,diop arent there when we pick and no one else slips that we would want I have no issues taking zeller over bazz.We could pick him to be our backup 4-5,I think he will be a starter at the 4 (in the future)and would be fine with backup mins at the 5.He has everything you want quick,athletic,rebounds,offense and is avg in the defense dept,dare I say he could be a poor mans kevin love,I could live with that ,A big 3 of dre/moose/zeller,then go out and spend our cap space on 2/3.
PG-Knight, jarred jack,bynum
SG-Gordon,stuck,english (or if we could somehow get lamb from okc)
SF-,Chandler,JJ,Middleton,Singler
PF-Moose,Zeller,jj
C-Dre,Moose,Zeller,Krav
That would be a good starting off point and I could live with that

I could live with them taking Zeller. I don't know if his ceiling is as high as you anticipate, but I could certainly be wrong.

There's no "sure thing" at the seventh pick. Zeller would certainly be a much safer pick than Shabazz. Then again, John Henson would have been a safer pick than Drummond too. While it's not a stacked draft, this is certainly a very interesting one for us Pistons fans.

[Goldtop]

Watching GS I got the sense that Shabazz could do for us what Barnes did for them. Barnes was also picked 7th after being labeled a potential #1 overall pick out of high school. SB Nation did a comparison and the numbers are eerily similar when you compare Barnes' sophmore season at 20 yrs old vs Shabazz' freshman season at the same age.



Both could end up going 7th too if we draft Shabazz.

http://www.sbnation.com/nba/2013/5/18/4 ... son-barnes

Good post, Goldtop.

Shabazz obviously had lower assist percentage, but also a lower turnover percentage as well.

It's also worth pointing out that Barnes had three other first round draft picks with him on that team (2 of them lottery). Shabazz didn't have a supporting cast like that. These are the drawbacks of choosing your college based on playing for your hometown team. I'm not a KY fan, but he would have been better served going and playing for Coach K.

yeah, I'm not opposed to Shabazz by any means, if that is how my previous posts came across. I'm simply trying to find info on both sides of the argument for/against drafting him and weigh both against each other. Given where we're drafting, if Mclemore, Oladipo, Burke, and Porter are gone, Shabazz makes too much sense to pass regardless of the negatives against him.

But if Oladipo or Burke are still on the board, I'm not 100% sure I want Shabazz over them just yet. Bottom line though, I think any one of these prospects will great additions, so I;m just glad that we;ll be adding another great piece to our core, whoever that ends up being.

[ImHeisenberg]

I would lean towards 'Dipo if he's still on the board. I'm just operating on the assumption that he will not be.

Burke, I'm not as sold on him. There's a natural bias as he's a Michigan product. But, I do have a sneaking suspicion that may eat my word on Trey.

[Pharaoh]

If the top 6 go the way I expect (and even if Zeller replaces Bennett in the top 6) I'm torn between Bazz and MCW

MCW + Knight + Stuckey next season is an interesting guard rotation... and means we don't overpay a free agent PG to come here and run the show.

Bazz + Knight + Stuckey is less interesting to me... but I can see plenty of reasons why we'd take Bazz at #7.

IF we get Bazz or MCW I'd be happy... not sure which way I'd go if I was forced to choose between the 2

[Piston Pete]

I'm souring on Shabazz, personally.

I question his D, his shot, his passing, his ability to create his own shot, his lack of being a team player, and his personal red flags (father, etc.).

I hope Oladipo somehow drops into our laps at #7. Otherwise, I'm looking at Saric or exploring trade down options.

[Clarity]

For us & our needs Shabazz couldnt make more sense.

[HotelVitale]

I'm really curious about those who are totally sold on Bazz. I think he'd be a decent pick but is it not clear that his game has some significant problems now? People seem to be much more eager to find him excuses than for any other prospect-- Barnes also had mediocre efficiency numbers his sophomore year! Westbrook only put up 12/4 while wearing the same logo as bazz! He's actually really athletic, he just worked out too much and put on to much weight!

I'm just curious about why posters seem so sold while I see a guy with a great NBA body who looked like an out of control shot hunter for a lot of the year. He didn't dominate despite having a great opportunity to, and to to it off he won't be able to do most of what he did in college in the NBA. He's got a great motor and good general foot work and mechanics, but what he is now is a prospect, who will need to re-skill and get a lot better to be good in the NBA.

[Clarity]

I'm really curious about those who are totally sold on Bazz. I think he'd be a decent pick but is it not clear that his game has some significant problems now? People seem to be much more eager to find him excuses than for any other prospect-- Barnes also had mediocre efficiency numbers his sophomore year! Westbrook only put up 12/4 while wearing the same logo as bazz! He's actually really athletic, he just worked out too much and put on to much weight!

I'm just curious about why posters seem so sold while I see a guy with a great NBA body who looked like an out of control shot hunter for a lot of the year. He didn't dominate despite having a great opportunity to, and to to it off he won't be able to do most of what he did in college in the NBA. He's got a great motor and good general foot work and mechanics, but what he is now is a prospect, who will need to re-skill and get a lot better to be good in the NBA.

Shabazz's game has flaws as does every single prospect in this draft.

You are speculating on what he can/cant do in the NBA, its completely different than college.

You are right though, he needs to get a lot better just like every other pick in this draft.

[Piston Pete]

I'm really curious about those who are totally sold on Bazz. I think he'd be a decent pick but is it not clear that his game has some significant problems now? People seem to be much more eager to find him excuses than for any other prospect-- Barnes also had mediocre efficiency numbers his sophomore year! Westbrook only put up 12/4 while wearing the same logo as bazz! He's actually really athletic, he just worked out too much and put on to much weight!

I'm just curious about why posters seem so sold while I see a guy with a great NBA body who looked like an out of control shot hunter for a lot of the year. He didn't dominate despite having a great opportunity to, and to to it off he won't be able to do most of what he did in college in the NBA. He's got a great motor and good general foot work and mechanics, but what he is now is a prospect, who will need to re-skill and get a lot better to be good in the NBA.

Shabazz's game has flaws as does every single prospect in this draft.

You are speculating on what he can/cant do in the NBA, its completely different than college.

You are right though, he needs to get a lot better just like every other pick in this draft.

Really, what are Shabazz's best attributes?

His scoring, his size, and his drive?


What are his flaws?

His personal life (crazy father), his defense, his shot selection, his passing, his ability to create his own shot, his lack of being a team player.



IMO, he has more flaws than positive attributes. I think that has a lot to do with why he's falling down draft boards. Weneed more from this draft than a 1-dimensional scorer. If all we needed was a 1-dimensional scorer, we would have kept Ben Gordon around.

[ComboGuardCity]

I'm really curious about those who are totally sold on Bazz. I think he'd be a decent pick but is it not clear that his game has some significant problems now? People seem to be much more eager to find him excuses than for any other prospect-- Barnes also had mediocre efficiency numbers his sophomore year! Westbrook only put up 12/4 while wearing the same logo as bazz! He's actually really athletic, he just worked out too much and put on to much weight!

I'm just curious about why posters seem so sold while I see a guy with a great NBA body who looked like an out of control shot hunter for a lot of the year. He didn't dominate despite having a great opportunity to, and to to it off he won't be able to do most of what he did in college in the NBA. He's got a great motor and good general foot work and mechanics, but what he is now is a prospect, who will need to re-skill and get a lot better to be good in the NBA.

Shabazz's game has flaws as does every single prospect in this draft.

You are speculating on what he can/cant do in the NBA, its completely different than college.

You are right though, he needs to get a lot better just like every other pick in this draft.

Really, what are Shabazz's best attributes?

His scoring, his size, and his drive?


What are his flaws?

His personal life (crazy father), his defense, his shot selection, his passing, his ability to create his own shot, his lack of being a team player.



IMO, he has more flaws than positive attributes. I think that has a lot to do with why he's falling down draft boards. Weneed more from this draft than a 1-dimensional scorer. If all we needed was a 1-dimensional scorer, we would have kept Ben Gordon around.

On the flip side, what makes Saric a positive player?

[MrBigShot]

I've ripped Shabazz as much as anyone here for his flaws, but I think he's an easy choice over Saric. Saric has potential...but I don't see him as the Magic-like point forward that some scouts paint him out to be. It takes more than great passing to be a floor general...I think he will be as good as AK47 some day(at his level, not stylistically) but we desperately need some scoring.

[Piston Pete]

On the flip side, what makes Saric a positive player?

Saric's good:

One of the youngest players in the entire draft, total team player, great passer, good scorer, plays decent D, high BBIQ, also has a great drive to succeed, has been in the spotlight for years.


Saric's bad:

Lacks elite athleticism, will need to improve on outside shot

[ComboGuardCity]

On the flip side, what makes Saric a positive player?

Saric's good:

One of the youngest players in the entire draft, total team player, great passer, good scorer, plays decent D, high BBIQ, also has a great drive to succeed, has been in the spotlight for years.


Saric's bad:

Lacks elite athleticism, will need to improve on outside shot

Saric actually doesn't play decent D. If you're going to say he plays decent D, then Shabazz does as well. He cannot keep up with Euro 3s. He'll get burned by NBA ones. Interesting that you included Saric being in the spotlight as a good attribute, but didn't do the same for Shabazz. These point forward Euros never seem to pan out, especially when he's averaging 2asts to 3TOs.

[Piston Pete]

On the flip side, what makes Saric a positive player?

Saric's good:

One of the youngest players in the entire draft, total team player, great passer, good scorer, plays decent D, high BBIQ, also has a great drive to succeed, has been in the spotlight for years.


Saric's bad:

Lacks elite athleticism, will need to improve on outside shot

Saric actually doesn't play decent D. If you're going to say he plays decent D, then Shabazz does as well. He cannot keep up with Euro 3s. He'll get burned by NBA ones. Interesting that you included Saric being in the spotlight as a good attribute, but didn't do the same for Shabazz. These point forward Euros never seem to pan out, especially when he's averaging 2asts to 3TOs.

We'll have to wait and see then on whether Saric pans out.

Shabazz's spotlight = lying about his age to bully HSers into fame, then playing 1 year of so-so college ball.

Saric's spotlight = playing multiple years PROFESSIONALLY against adults while leading Croatia to U16 and U18 Gold metals while winning MVPs both times.

I put a lot more stock into Saric's spotlight and past experiences than I do Shabazz's.

And for the record, I liken Saric's role in Europe to that of a guy like GRIII at UM last season. He's a SF playing PF because he can and is the team's best option there. And some of his numbers are down because of this. Both may have much better numbers if they were allowed to play their natural positions (SF) full-time. But long-term, in the NBA, both will be SFs.

[Clarity]

I'm really curious about those who are totally sold on Bazz. I think he'd be a decent pick but is it not clear that his game has some significant problems now? People seem to be much more eager to find him excuses than for any other prospect-- Barnes also had mediocre efficiency numbers his sophomore year! Westbrook only put up 12/4 while wearing the same logo as bazz! He's actually really athletic, he just worked out too much and put on to much weight!

I'm just curious about why posters seem so sold while I see a guy with a great NBA body who looked like an out of control shot hunter for a lot of the year. He didn't dominate despite having a great opportunity to, and to to it off he won't be able to do most of what he did in college in the NBA. He's got a great motor and good general foot work and mechanics, but what he is now is a prospect, who will need to re-skill and get a lot better to be good in the NBA.

Shabazz's game has flaws as does every single prospect in this draft.

You are speculating on what he can/cant do in the NBA, its completely different than college.

You are right though, he needs to get a lot better just like every other pick in this draft.

Really, what are Shabazz's best attributes?

His scoring, his size, and his drive?


What are his flaws?

His personal life (crazy father), his defense, his shot selection, his passing, his ability to create his own shot, his lack of being a team player.



IMO, he has more flaws than positive attributes. I think that has a lot to do with why he's falling down draft boards. Weneed more from this draft than a 1-dimensional scorer. If all we needed was a 1-dimensional scorer, we would have kept Ben Gordon around.

Shabazz's attributes are size, scoring ability, killer instinct, drive, shooting ability as a jump shooter & on the block, his rebounding.

His flaws are obvious, his defensive effort & more so his ability to create his own shot. He has said that is his #1 goal which makes me believe he will improve significantly there. The other stuff you mentioned (his "crazy father") has no barring on him the player.

Like I said you can list the same amount of flaws on anyone in this draft.

[Kilo]

Lets make one thing clear - Shabazz lying about his age didn't somehow allow him to play a year in highschool that he shouldn't have. He was the same age in HS as many of his current college freshmen peers.

[Piston Pete]

The other stuff you mentioned (his "crazy father") has no barring on him the player.

I disagree. Outside influences (especially close friends and family) can be and have been negative influences on how a player plays/develops and can be a factor on said player even sticking in the league long-term.

[Piston Pete]

Lets make one thing clear - Shabazz lying about his age didn't somehow allow him to play a year in highschool that he shouldn't have. He was the same age in HS as many of his current college freshmen peers.

Can you list out all of the 20 year old freshmen in college?

[Clarity]

The other stuff you mentioned (his "crazy father") has no barring on him the player.

I disagree. Outside influences (especially close friends and family) can be and have been negative influences on how a player plays/develops and can be a factor on said player even sticking in the league long-term.

Agree to disagree, you're reaching for reasons not to like him. He said in the draft process that he had let others think for him at times & that hes thinking for himself now a days.

We arent drafting his father & as a pro there is zero difference between 6'6, 220, 19 yrs old & 6'6, 220, 20 yrs old.

Lets make one thing clear - Shabazz lying about his age didn't somehow allow him to play a year in highschool that he shouldn't have. He was the same age in HS as many of his current college freshmen peers.

the end