Around the League

[Clarity]

Sometimes I truly wonder if you're reading or just reacting. How does "all about getting easy buckets in the half court" vary AT ALL from efficient shots? Are you trying to tell me that Miami won the last two championships by pounding the ball inside? That's primarily a perimeter team... not Wade, but LeBron does both, Bosh is midrange, Miller outside, Battier outside, Allen outside. That's almost all of their scoring, and well over half of it isn't from the inside. It's about quality shots, so "lol, it's bball man", learn to read.

I read what you said 3 times. & miss me with the shots, no time for that nonsense.

I dont disagree its about efficient shots, its always about efficient shots but in a slowed down half court game a good chunk of the time, wide open jumpers arent there, typically playoff teams arent awful on the perimeter defensively. With the Miami example, is it a coincidence that they took the next step once Lebron was able to operate from the block & create easy shots for himself or for his teammates via doubles? They single handedly won Game 6 & 7 last year through Lebron dominating on the block. There is no Ray Allen miracle shot without Lebron on the block.

Its why a team like the Clipps can win 50+ games but not get out of the first round, because if you halt the tempo what do they have in the half court? 23 footers arent gonna fall for 7 games, lob dunks arent gonna be there in a drug out pace.

Its why teams like Memphis can hover around the 43, 44 ish win mark but make a deep playoff run. Its because they can get & create easy baskets in a half court setting.

Its why analysts sell jump shooting teams all the time. So no, the post season is not won via jump shooting, now as I said previously, it would be awesome to have some good shooters around our bigs but the post season is won via being able to create easy baskets. 24 footers arent easy baskets.

[tmorgan]

Everything you said is mostly true... and yet, you're still wrong. LeBron does operate SOME from the post now, but Miami is was still clearly a perimeter team.

Good teams can get good looks from the perimeter, even in a playoff series. Sure, some of them are created from a post game, but some are from crisp perimeter passing. The Warriors won a playoff series last year and had the edge and blew it in another -- that team had very little inside game and played crappy defense.

Now, it's certainly true that unique or dominant players such as LeBron or Curry can buck the trends. Let me ask you this, though -- do you recall how the 2004 PIstons scored, for the most part? Do you recall how the 88-89 Pistons scored, for the most part? I'm on board for the idea that bad defensive teams don't win championships (and we're currently a BAD defensive team, no doubt), but I'm not buying this inside scoring is what it takes nonsense, because there are plenty of examples from our OWN FRANCHISE that show it isn't true.

[ImHeisenberg]

Just a quick stat fact; Khris Middleton is currently top-5 in the league in 3-point shooting percentage (48.6%).

Just sayin'....

Solid defensively... Maybe we should have played him a little more when we were losing last year...

Frank was way too worried about his job to bother with player development.

Similar to how Joe is way to worried about his job, so he mortgaged the team's future for this sad sack of a 'win now' team.

[ComboGuardCity]

Well, I guess we can be a perimeter team if we had one of the GOATS at the 3 position. Unfortunately we don't.

We were also more of an inside team the year we won.

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[Snakebites]

Well, I guess we can be a perimeter team if we had one of the GOATS at the 3 position. Unfortunately we don't.

We were also more of an inside team the year we won.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

More of an inside team in terms of what?

[sc8581]

Well, I guess we can be a perimeter team if we had one of the GOATS at the 3 position. Unfortunately we don't.

We were also more of an inside team the year we won.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

More of an inside team in terms of what?

LMAO interior defense and that's about it.

[sc8581]

Sometimes I truly wonder if you're reading or just reacting. How does "all about getting easy buckets in the half court" vary AT ALL from efficient shots? Are you trying to tell me that Miami won the last two championships by pounding the ball inside? That's primarily a perimeter team... not Wade, but LeBron does both, Bosh is midrange, Miller outside, Battier outside, Allen outside. That's almost all of their scoring, and well over half of it isn't from the inside. It's about quality shots, so "lol, it's bball man", learn to read.

I read what you said 3 times. & miss me with the shots, no time for that nonsense.

I dont disagree its about efficient shots, its always about efficient shots but in a slowed down half court game a good chunk of the time, wide open jumpers arent there, typically playoff teams arent awful on the perimeter defensively. With the Miami example, is it a coincidence that they took the next step once Lebron was able to operate from the block & create easy shots for himself or for his teammates via doubles? They single handedly won Game 6 & 7 last year through Lebron dominating on the block. There is no Ray Allen miracle shot without Lebron on the block.

Its why a team like the Clipps can win 50+ games but not get out of the first round, because if you halt the tempo what do they have in the half court? 23 footers arent gonna fall for 7 games, lob dunks arent gonna be there in a drug out pace.

Its why teams like Memphis can hover around the 43, 44 ish win mark but make a deep playoff run. Its because they can get & create easy baskets in a half court setting.

Its why analysts sell jump shooting teams all the time. So no, the post season is not won via jump shooting, now as I said previously, it would be awesome to have some good shooters around our bigs but the post season is won via being able to create easy baskets. 24 footers arent easy baskets.

Memphis beat an over-rated Clippers team and an OKC team missing a superstar, then the Spurs **** on them so that's a garbage argument.

LeBron and Battier carried the Heat in game 7 against the Spurs by hitting 11 triples and in game 6 Chalmers, Battier and Miller combined to go 9-11 from downtown.

[ComboGuardCity]

Well, I guess we can be a perimeter team if we had one of the GOATS at the 3 position. Unfortunately we don't.

We were also more of an inside team the year we won.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

More of an inside team in terms of what?

If you remember watching the championship team we barely took any 3s. Fast forward to 2006, we saw more chucking behind the line.

EDIT: we were 28th in 3pa in 2004. 3rd in 2006.


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[Snakebites]

Well, I guess we can be a perimeter team if we had one of the GOATS at the 3 position. Unfortunately we don't.

We were also more of an inside team the year we won.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

More of an inside team in terms of what?

If you remember watching the championship team we barely took any 3s. Fast forward to 2006, we saw more chucking behind the line.

EDIT: we were 28th in 3pa in 2004. 3rd in 2006.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

That doesn't mean we were an "interior" team, unless you consider anything inside the 3 point line to be interior. Our offense was virtually all jumpshots.

[sc8581]

Well, I guess we can be a perimeter team if we had one of the GOATS at the 3 position. Unfortunately we don't.

We were also more of an inside team the year we won.

Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

More of an inside team in terms of what?

If you remember watching the championship team we barely took any 3s. Fast forward to 2006, we saw more chucking behind the line.

EDIT: we were 28th in 3pa in 2004. 3rd in 2006.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

They started taking more 3's instead of so many long 2's and we went from a below average offense to pretty damn good because of it. We shot 38.4% from 3 in 05-06, if you call that "chucking" I don't know what to tell you lol.

[tmorgan]

That change in 3pt attempts from 2004 to 2006 is because Rip tried to extend his range (semi-successfully, too), and Sheed got lazier and lazier and even more perimeter oriented.

Regardless, the 2004 team was in no way a pound-it-inside team. That's just stupid. The offense was Rip off screens mid-range, Chauncey drawing fouls (some of which were down low, but not a majority), Chauncey from the perimeter, Rasheed from the block (but not nearly enough), Rasheed from the perimeter (way too much), and rarely Tay or Ben. The bench was Memo (a lot like current Bosh, including some threes), Mike James (mostly perimeter), Chucky Atkins (all perimeter, but gone before the playoffs), and the single real consistent low post player on the entire team, Corliss Williamson.

The original Bad Boys? Laimbeer liked to pull defenders outside. Joe D didn't drive much. Isiah could drive, but he was certainly primarily a perimeter player. Vinny? Mostly a shooter. Yes, that team had Buddha and Salley and Rodman, but the last two didn't shoot much. Rick Mahorn and Edwards were the two guys that really banged for buckets, and they certainly didn't make up a high percentage of the offense.

You need interior defense to win championships. Interior offense? Eh, not so much. It helps to have balance, but good points per shot can come in a lot of ways.

[Clarity]

Everything you said is mostly true... and yet, you're still wrong. LeBron does operate SOME from the post now, but Miami is was still clearly a perimeter team.

Good teams can get good looks from the perimeter, even in a playoff series. Sure, some of them are created from a post game, but some are from crisp perimeter passing. The Warriors won a playoff series last year and had the edge and blew it in another -- that team had very little inside game and played crappy defense.

Now, it's certainly true that unique or dominant players such as LeBron or Curry can buck the trends. Let me ask you this, though -- do you recall how the 2004 PIstons scored, for the most part? Do you recall how the 88-89 Pistons scored, for the most part? I'm on board for the idea that bad defensive teams don't win championships (and we're currently a BAD defensive team, no doubt), but I'm not buying this inside scoring is what it takes nonsense, because there are plenty of examples from our OWN FRANCHISE that show it isn't true.

Our team won a title with defense, plain & simple. There are always exceptions to the rule like that team (ie MJ in the 90s). However without Sheed on the block in game 7 vs Miami we dont win that series & get to the 05 Finals.

Its the reason "live by the jumper, die by the jumper" is one of the most used sayings. Its why bigs are valued so high. Its why every analyst will always get on the Lamarcus's, Sheed's & Bosh's etc of the world about playing in the post instead of shooting jumpers. The higher % the shot, the easier the basket.

I am in no way saying shooters dont matter but in the post season, as I said before, rarely are 22 footers wide open. The teams who are able to create easy offense when the jumpers arent falling are the teams who win in the Post season. As I ran through past Champions, its pretty obvious.

Moral of the discussion, the Pistons roster & style of play right now offensively is a post season style of play. If we can play a little defense for once that is. haha

[sc8581]

Everything you said is mostly true... and yet, you're still wrong. LeBron does operate SOME from the post now, but Miami is was still clearly a perimeter team.

Good teams can get good looks from the perimeter, even in a playoff series. Sure, some of them are created from a post game, but some are from crisp perimeter passing. The Warriors won a playoff series last year and had the edge and blew it in another -- that team had very little inside game and played crappy defense.

Now, it's certainly true that unique or dominant players such as LeBron or Curry can buck the trends. Let me ask you this, though -- do you recall how the 2004 PIstons scored, for the most part? Do you recall how the 88-89 Pistons scored, for the most part? I'm on board for the idea that bad defensive teams don't win championships (and we're currently a BAD defensive team, no doubt), but I'm not buying this inside scoring is what it takes nonsense, because there are plenty of examples from our OWN FRANCHISE that show it isn't true.

Our team won a title with defense, plain & simple. There are always exceptions to the rule like that team (ie MJ in the 90s). However without Sheed on the block in game 7 vs Miami we dont win that series & get to the 05 Finals.

Its the reason "live by the jumper, die by the jumper" is one of the most used sayings. Its why bigs are valued so high. Its why every analyst will always get on the Lamarcus's, Sheed's & Bosh's etc of the world about playing in the post instead of shooting jumpers. The higher % the shot, the easier the basket.

I am in no way saying shooters dont matter but in the post season, as I said before, rarely are 22 footers wide open. The teams who are able to create easy offense when the jumpers arent falling are the teams who win in the Post season. As I ran through past Champions, its pretty obvious.

Moral of the discussion, the Pistons roster & style of play right now offensively is a post season style of play. If we can play a little defense for once that is. haha

If you don't have those LMA, Sheed and Bosh type guys then Lillard, Lebron and Chauncey can't get into the paint for easy buckets, all 3 of those guys also rely(ied) on their outside shot setting up their ability to get into the hole because their defenders had to stay honest and play them closely out on the perimeter.

[ComboGuardCity]

Stuckey for Lamb. Westbrooks knee is a lingering issue.

[sc8581]

Stuckey for Lamb. Westbrooks knee is a lingering issue.

Salaries don't come anywhere close to matching

[ComboGuardCity]

Stuckey for Lamb. Westbrooks knee is a lingering issue.

Salaries don't come anywhere close to matching

Salaries never stop a deal from happening. You add a guy like Jonas and Perkins if necessary.

[ComboGuardCity]

Everyone wishing injury on Beverly right now are pretty ridiculous. Westbrook tried to go for the same steal earlier. It's an unfortunate injury, but I'm not going to fault a guy for playing hard.

[ComboGuardCity]

Horford out 3 months. The 3rd seed should be in reach. As should an all star appearance for Drummond.

[Timmaytime]

Horford out 3 months. The 3rd seed should be in reach. As should an all star appearance for Drummond.

good to hear (not about the injury, never wish that on anyone, praying for him), Hawks still scare me for some reason. They seem like an extremely well built team and I don't know why

[Timmaytime]

Stuckey for Lamb. Westbrooks knee is a lingering issue.

Salaries don't come anywhere close to matching

Salaries never stop a deal from happening. You add a guy like Jonas and Perkins if necessary.

Can't see them dumping Perk without getting a big back, that leaves them extremely weak up front.