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Those are Haliburton's strengths, too. He's like Rondo with a jump shot out there. I'm guessing the higher ceiling might be in regard to Hayes potential as a scorer. But I'm not sure how much greater that potential is.

* By the way, why do you always quote reply from above instead of below? Just to screw the rest of us up? Come on, man!

Pharaoh wrote:The bold part:
Theory is that Hayes ability to see the floor and actually make those reads is somewhat of a "gift".

flow wrote:

ducler wrote:I'm not surprised at all that Haliburton is performing better than Hayes. He is the better baller by now, but Hayes has a higher ceiling by far IMO. Just need time, work and adaptation. Being a classic rookie is always complicated, but the actual situation is even harder. Killian will bounce back and next year the Cunningham/Hayes backcourt will show us some promises.

Could you (or anybody) elaborate on the bold, please? It became a catchy phrase to use in the "+" column for Hayes when comparing the two before the draft. But I don't get where it comes from/what it means. Is it simply that, since Haliburton is the better player, Hayes has more improving to do, so the ceiling that we want him to reach is further away? That's not much of a selling point. If that's not it, then what is it? There's only 17 months between them in age.

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Well this being his 7th game I’m not too worried I felt like it was gonna take him 10-13 games to get too speed. That’s like summer league, pre season, and a couple games in,normally, so I think he’s 3-5 games if healthy away from a break through game.

Haliburton was my pick from the beginning(although I was ok with the Hayes pick). . I said he could be like Andre Miller but a good shooter. He isn't a great athlete, doesn't jump out of the gym, be he is high bball IQ, takes smart shots, makes smart passes, doesn't turn the ball over. I think because he was a softmore in a lottery full of freshman and also the fact that he doesn't jump out of the gym and isn't incredibly fast made people see him as more of a low risk low reward type pick.

Truth is, he got much better from his freshman year to his second year in college. His freshman year was mostly catch and shoot jumpers and scoring in transition and his 2nd year highlights were full of a ton of off the dribble jumpers.

Hayes has a nice stepback jumper move which is popular right now... Kennard did it too... but its only a good move if you can make 35% of them from 3 and 50% of them from midrange. And the reports of him being weak with his right hand are true defenses are pushing him right and a lot of the time he just ends up picking up his dribble rather than continuing strong to his right hand.

Some of Hayes' best moves offensively have been when he has been able to go left and dribble in for that free throw area lefty floater in the lane and teams just aren't giving him that at all. He also doesn't look confidant against NBA defensive pressure and he doesn't seem to be able to really make the defense pay for overplaying him on the perimeter. Someone like Ish Smith or Will Bynum would punish the defense for overplaying them on the perimeter by blowing past them and Hayes just doesn't have much quickness for a 19 year old I almost wonder if he's put on too much muscle to really play the PG position well.

I honestly can't believe people watching don't understand just how bad Hayes has been. I understand still having hope and the fact that its just a few games into his rookie season but some people are talking about seeing glimpses and I have not seen anything but awful basketball from him. It's actually good to see the #s back up the eye test of him being the absolute worst rookie thus far because the way some of you are talking is like he is showing some good stuff out there with the bad but the truth is it hasn't been a mixed bag its just all been really bad.

I have been impressed with his court vision. That has been as advertised. On the other hand, I still think he seems slow. He has shown no ability to drive past a defender one on one, and also does not seem to have the confidence to even try to do so. His shooting has been shaky, but I'd still bet that turns around. For draft prospects, free throw percentage is more predictive of overall shooting talent than three point percentage, and his free throw shooting is and has been elite. So assuming that works out, how far can a slow PG with excellent vision and (hopefully) good shooting get? It's an unusual combination.

No reason

Quote/reply works however it works and tbh I can't be bothered to structure my replies a certain way to humans who claimed to hate our last decade then spit fire when someone arrives and nukes this thing in whatever way needed.

The narrative is what it is.

Been trashed by certain people cause I reserve judgement based on particular moves instead of diving all in based on 1 singular off-season.

I don't agree with all the moves we made but whatever, I ain't running the show and my ego doesn't need to be satisfied by a GM doing exactly what I would have done.

I watch cause it's my team. I'm already invested. Been begging to stop this 8th seed stuff for years and now it's upon us!

Embrace it and see what we see.

flow wrote:Those are Haliburton's strengths, too. He's like Rondo with a jump shot out there. I'm guessing the higher ceiling might be in regard to Hayes potential as a scorer. But I'm not sure how much greater that potential is.

* By the way, why do you always quote reply from above instead of below? Just to screw the rest of us up? Come on, man!

Pharaoh wrote:The bold part:
Theory is that Hayes ability to see the floor and actually make those reads is somewhat of a "gift".

flow wrote:
Could you (or anybody) elaborate on the bold, please? It became a catchy phrase to use in the "+" column for Hayes when comparing the two before the draft. But I don't get where it comes from/what it means. Is it simply that, since Haliburton is the better player, Hayes has more improving to do, so the ceiling that we want him to reach is further away? That's not much of a selling point. If that's not it, then what is it? There's only 17 months between them in age.

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Well, this sucks.

BJK1 wrote:

Read on Twitter

Well, this sucks.

uhh, isnt that the same injury that basically finished Isaiah Thomas career (not the pistons one).

At least Hayes is not reliant on speed or quickness I guess, so it might not be such a major injury for him



https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/6wsuva/oc_a_look_at_nba_players_who_suffered_torn_hip/

ah yea.
This is not good at all, history is certainly not on his side.

I presume he is out for the season? What did us Pistons fan do to deserve the past 10 years?

Yeah, unfortunately I think it’s safe to say that he’s out for the remainder of the season.

Wow, this makes things tough for him going forward.

At least we didn't just hang our hat on that pick, injecting youth elsewhere. Still much promise in the other youngsters.

I assume it's going to be Frank Jackson moving up. Lee, a trade or a FA PG seem less likely.

this is bad on all fronts because it also hurts our tank

Man that's awful

That’s brutal. He obviously didn’t have a great start to the season but starting his nba career trying to rehab a potentially (but hopefully not) major injury is going to be a lot for him to overcome.

His biggest luck is he's still very very young, one of the youngest in the last draft class. So even if he's out for the next 6 months or so, it means he's still just turns 20 years old.

Apparently Lamarcus Aldridge had this injury in college

Not a doctor, but from what I've read, recovery time can vary widely depending on the degree of the tear. Not every tear is as devastating as IT's was. If the tear is minimal, he could be running in 4-to-5 weeks.

flow wrote:Not a doctor, but from what I've read, recovery time can vary widely depending on the degree of the tear. Not every tear is as devastating as IT's was. If the tear is minimal, he could be running in 4-to-5 weeks.

Let's hope

Not feeling too hopeful about that. Poor Hayes.

flow wrote:Not a doctor, but from what I've read, recovery time can vary widely depending on the degree of the tear. Not every tear is as devastating as IT's was. If the tear is minimal, he could be running in 4-to-5 weeks.

And didn’t IT play through his injury, too? That probably made it worse

Its not a good sign for him to be getting this injury so young it seems.

I guess whether he returns this season depends on whether he needs surgery

Saban Lee or Frank Jackson time I guess