Trade deadline thread

[buzzkilloton]

Just read who the draft guru Weavers top guy was in 2020 if we won the lotto.

"Wiseman, who was the No. 2 overall pick in 2020, has long had fans in Detroit’s front office. According to team sources who were granted anonymity to speak freely, Wiseman was the top player on the Pistons’ big board during the 2020 NBA Draft process."

https://theathletic.com/4173719/2023/02/09/pistons-trade-james-wiseman-bey/

[hoophabit]

I'm okay with this move. Mobley and Allen made us appear ridiculous, as have most teams with any real size. Bey has progressed a little in some areas while regressing in others. The idea we have "too many centers" puzzles me. Stewart is a terrific effort player who is generally overmatched at the 5. Noel is a visitor who won't be around long. MB3's history speaks for itself, and the merits of his extension is open to discussion but tangential to this situation. Duren is hella young and this move doesn't have to impede his development at all. Wiseman may not pan out but it doesn't strike me as insane to take a look in this already disastrous season.

[bstein14]

Bagley had surgery Jan 4th or 5th and he was slated to miss 6 to 8 weeks. So we're just a few days away form hitting 6 weeks which is where he's supposed to be re-evaluated. It'll be interesting to see how the rotation looks once Wiseman, Bagley, Duren, and Stew are all healthy. You can't imagine Weaver made this move to not have all four of those guys in the rotation.

[bstein14]

Rumour has it that if KD doesn't go to the Suns there was gonna be a 3 way deal between Phoenix, Atlanta & us where Collins goes to the Suns.

Wonder what the Hawks would have got from Phoenix in that scenario.

Sent from my SM-G781B using RealGM Forums mobile app

Detroit gets: Jae Crowder

Suns get: Collins

Hawks get: Bey + Noel

Also possible we then move Crowder for 5 2nds to the Bucks.

[thesack12]

Maybe its just me and how my brain thinks, but doesn't this Bey for Wiseman trade seem to counteract Weaver's alleged reasoning behind keeping Bojan?

Didn't Troy apparently tell Bojan we are keeping you because we intend on competing next year?

While Bey wasn't anything special and is replaceable talent, he was capable of supplying a somewhat reliable role and you could reasonably expect him to put a decent amount of points on the board.

Wiseman on the other hand, doesn't provide anything remotely reliable.

I don't know, bringing in yet another ground up project, when you were already currently trying to mold a piece of clay at the same position sure doesn't seem to fall in line the apparent logic of not trading Bojan.

[The Moose]

I do not have any concerns that Bey was traded for Wiseman at all. The problem I have with Bey is how horribly misused he was. Bey is a catch and shoot guy. But the pistons allowed him to catch the ball 25 ft away from the basket and dribble drive into a 40% shooting percentage. Bey had some skills as a post guy but seldom was used in that way. There is a problem in the organization in regard to properly developing players. Allowing Bey 10 to 15 dribbles in a single position while his teammates stood and watched was bad basketball. I already have similar concerns Ivey is not being trained to play to his strengths, which is another topic. My conclusion is with Casey as coach there is a ceiling over all our young players heads.

If you believe what the Pistons are putting out, aka James Edwards from the Athletic , that issue was on Bey and was part of the reason he was traded. They are basically saying the team wanted him to settle into a catch and shoot role, but Bey wanted to expand his game and show he can do more to earn a bigger contract.
Now, whether or not this is true, we don't really know.

It certainly sounds like Weaver had no intention of bringing Bey back though and was set on trading him for something at the deadline, there was the rumoured 3 team deal with the hawks likely involving Bey and there was the proposed Reddish deal that seemed to be the 1st option.

[bstein14]

After the KD trade, the Nets were offered 4 first round picks from unnamed team (most likely the Knicks) for Mikal Bridges. Just goes to show you how much they don't want to just go full rebuild mode that they'd turn down 4 firsts for him.

[Kalamazoo317]

Maybe its just me and how my brain thinks, but doesn't this Bey for Wiseman trade seem to counteract Weaver's alleged reasoning behind keeping Bojan?

Didn't Troy apparently tell Bojan we are keeping you because we intend on competing next year?

While Bey wasn't anything special and is replaceable talent, he was capable of supplying a somewhat reliable role and you could reasonably expect him to put a decent amount of points on the board.

Wiseman on the other hand, doesn't provide anything remotely reliable.

I don't know, bringing in yet another ground up project, when you were already currently trying to mold a piece of clay at the same position sure doesn't seem to fall in line the apparent logic of not trading Bojan.

I liked Bey and I believed in his potential, but he hadn't shown me anything yet to tell me that he could be a reliable part of a competitive team. When he got hot from 3 he could help us steal wins but he was far from reliable at that, his iso-ball insistences led to a lot of bad shot selection and poor offensive trips for the team, he was never a good rebounder for his position, and playing Bojan and he together on defense was unsustainable for anyone but a cellar dwellar.

Not saying Wiseman will or won't be better, but Bey wasn't providing anything reliable for contention.

[buzzkilloton]

After the KD trade, the Nets were offered 4 first round picks from unnamed team (most likely the Knicks) for Mikal Bridges. Just goes to show you how much they don't want to just go full rebuild mode that they'd turn down 4 firsts for him.

I was thinking it could be Memphis. Since Memphis offered 3 picks for OG. Bridges is under contract longer so I expect he cost more because you lock him in.

Could be Knicks to though.

[thesack12]

Maybe its just me and how my brain thinks, but doesn't this Bey for Wiseman trade seem to counteract Weaver's alleged reasoning behind keeping Bojan?

Didn't Troy apparently tell Bojan we are keeping you because we intend on competing next year?

While Bey wasn't anything special and is replaceable talent, he was capable of supplying a somewhat reliable role and you could reasonably expect him to put a decent amount of points on the board.

Wiseman on the other hand, doesn't provide anything remotely reliable.

I don't know, bringing in yet another ground up project, when you were already currently trying to mold a piece of clay at the same position sure doesn't seem to fall in line the apparent logic of not trading Bojan.

I liked Bey and I believed in his potential, but he hadn't shown me anything yet to tell me that he could be a reliable part of a competitive team. When he got hot from 3 he could help us steal wins but he was far from reliable at that, his iso-ball insistences led to a lot of bad shot selection and poor offensive trips for the team, he was never a good rebounder for his position, and playing Bojan and he together on defense was unsustainable for anyone but a cellar dwellar.

Not saying Wiseman will or won't be better, but Bey wasn't providing anything reliable for contention.

Yeah, its not so much about trading Bey in general moreso specifically trading Bey for a ground up project.

If Troy was over Bey and didn't want to pay him, I get it as most would. But if your vision is making a 34 year old Bojan a "core" piece as you intend to shift towards a strategy of trying to compete moving forward, bringing in a project does not seem to help accomplish that.

I also get that you can have multiple intentions/visions happening simultaneously, such as trying to compete and developing young players. However, in this specific case Detroit (who does not have a stellar history of player development) has to try and build 2 projects from the ground up at the same position. Multiple developmentals at a position usually leads to stunted growth. Keeping in mind that position is the least valuable on the floor anyways.

Bringing in Wiseman for Bey also eats up a sizable chunk of the cap space for next season. Which further reduces the options to bring in talent to help with the "Hey Bojan we are going to bring in great players and compete next season" proclamation.

[NYPiston]

I liked Bey and I believed in his potential, but he hadn't shown me anything yet to tell me that he could be a reliable part of a competitive team. When he got hot from 3 he could help us steal wins but he was far from reliable at that, his iso-ball insistences led to a lot of bad shot selection and poor offensive trips for the team, he was never a good rebounder for his position, and playing Bojan and he together on defense was unsustainable for anyone but a cellar dwellar.

Not saying Wiseman will or won't be better, but Bey wasn't providing anything reliable for contention.

He was touted as a 3 and D that is average shooting the 3 and can't play D. I give Bey credit for expanding his offensive game somewhat but the efficiency never improved with it even though he was getting closer looks and he's a ball stopper on offense.

The Bey story is kind of sad because he had so much promise after Year 1 looking like a core player and has flatlined since.

[Snakebites]

Maybe its just me and how my brain thinks, but doesn't this Bey for Wiseman trade seem to counteract Weaver's alleged reasoning behind keeping Bojan?

Didn't Troy apparently tell Bojan we are keeping you because we intend on competing next year?

While Bey wasn't anything special and is replaceable talent, he was capable of supplying a somewhat reliable role and you could reasonably expect him to put a decent amount of points on the board.

Wiseman on the other hand, doesn't provide anything remotely reliable.

I don't know, bringing in yet another ground up project, when you were already currently trying to mold a piece of clay at the same position sure doesn't seem to fall in line the apparent logic of not trading Bojan.

Let’s just break this down more simply since I think all these developed arguments are actually unnecessary here.

This trade makes no sense with any rationale if you don’t believe in Wiseman.

And there’s really good reasons to not believe in Wiseman.

The bottom line with Bey is he hadn’t been good enough to warrant financial commitment. Where this breaks down is the inescapable fact that Wiseman has been worse and shown less potential for possible development in the same time frame.

[NYPiston]

Starting Wiseman?

Well, it’ll help our tank…

Not sure what he’s done to earn it.

Why not? What do they have to lose?

I get the concerns about fit but they need to play this guy a lot of minutes to see what they got.

[A_dub06]

This team is honestly doomed with weaver at the helm. Taking a gamble on wiseman is one thing and in itself not an issue. Trading bey for wiseman as opposed to taking those 5 2nd rounders isn’t a good move, but in a vacuum you live with it. Making that trade with the terrible contract of Bagley on the books (2 more guaranteed years of $12.5m without even an effing team option or partial guarantee m WTF!?!?), Beef Stew who is too slow to be an effective PF and undersized to be a centre, our promising young rook in Duren, and then proclaiming him to be the starting centre? Confusing to down right bad management. I’m all for tanking and getting the best draft picks available, but the caveat needs to come with an intense focus of player development which isn’t happening (mainly due to coaching imo) but also because our players don’t fit together. If Cade gets moved to SF which I think he should be regardless that will solve some issues but we don’t have a defensive or offensive identity. Where’s that coming from when all the players weaver gets are either bad defensively or limited offensively? Where are the two-way players? Hell, I would’ve traded Bojan to the Knicks for the best picks we could get and then tried trading them with Bey to Houston for Tari Eason. We need a young player like that, legit 2 way potential and the ceiling to be a monster. Instead we have this collection of oddities. The only thing we can hope for is a top two pick this year, and then what? Weaver and Casey NEED to go

[Kalamazoo317]

I do think, long-term, that Bagley and Wiseman are separate bets on the roulette wheel and Weaver is hoping one of the numbers will hit. I think they're basically competing with each other.

I think anyone who considers Beefstew a long-term fit at 5 and that being part of the logjam here has it wrong. If we're going to be competitive with Stew it's got to be with him as a 4, IMO, Al Horford style. If he can't pull that off in a legit way with better perimeter defense and more consistent outside shooting, he's probably not on the team in 3-4 years.

[MotownMadness]

After the KD trade, the Nets were offered 4 first round picks from unnamed team (most likely the Knicks) for Mikal Bridges. Just goes to show you how much they don't want to just go full rebuild mode that they'd turn down 4 firsts for him.

I was thinking it could be Memphis. Since Memphis offered 3 picks for OG. Bridges is under contract longer so I expect he cost more because you lock him in.

Could be Knicks to though.

Thats alot

[JNewton]

Maybe its just me and how my brain thinks, but doesn't this Bey for Wiseman trade seem to counteract Weaver's alleged reasoning behind keeping Bojan?

Didn't Troy apparently tell Bojan we are keeping you because we intend on competing next year?

While Bey wasn't anything special and is replaceable talent, he was capable of supplying a somewhat reliable role and you could reasonably expect him to put a decent amount of points on the board.

Wiseman on the other hand, doesn't provide anything remotely reliable.

I don't know, bringing in yet another ground up project, when you were already currently trying to mold a piece of clay at the same position sure doesn't seem to fall in line the apparent logic of not trading Bojan.

Let’s just break this down more simply since I think all these developed arguments are actually unnecessary here.

This trade makes no sense with any rationale if you don’t believe in Wiseman.

And there’s really good reasons to not believe in Wiseman.

The bottom line with Bey is he hadn’t been good enough to warrant financial commitment. Where this breaks down is the inescapable fact that Wiseman has been worse and shown less potential for possible development in the same time frame.

And he plays a position where the Pistons already have a younger player who has shown more! I was a Saddiq Bey fan and didn't want to move him, but I can understand the Pistons coming to the realization that they did not want to pay his next contract. What I don't understand is the return on this trade, and why Weaver consistently fails to acquire draft capital in trades like a rebuilding team should be stocking up on.

[Snakebites]

Maybe its just me and how my brain thinks, but doesn't this Bey for Wiseman trade seem to counteract Weaver's alleged reasoning behind keeping Bojan?

Didn't Troy apparently tell Bojan we are keeping you because we intend on competing next year?

While Bey wasn't anything special and is replaceable talent, he was capable of supplying a somewhat reliable role and you could reasonably expect him to put a decent amount of points on the board.

Wiseman on the other hand, doesn't provide anything remotely reliable.

I don't know, bringing in yet another ground up project, when you were already currently trying to mold a piece of clay at the same position sure doesn't seem to fall in line the apparent logic of not trading Bojan.

Let’s just break this down more simply since I think all these developed arguments are actually unnecessary here.

This trade makes no sense with any rationale if you don’t believe in Wiseman.

And there’s really good reasons to not believe in Wiseman.

The bottom line with Bey is he hadn’t been good enough to warrant financial commitment. Where this breaks down is the inescapable fact that Wiseman has been worse and shown less potential for possible development in the same time frame.

And he plays a position where the Pistons already have a younger player who has shown more! I was a Saddiq Bey fan and didn't want to move him, but I can understand the Pistons coming to the realization that they did not want to pay his next contract. What I don't understand is the return on this trade, and why Weaver consistently fails to acquire draft capital in trades like a rebuilding team should be stocking up on.

I’ve said it multiple times: I’d have been fine with the trade if we’d just made it with Atlanta straight up. The valuation of Bey was fine.

[theBigLip]

I do think, long-term, that Bagley and Wiseman are separate bets on the roulette wheel and Weaver is hoping one of the numbers will hit. I think they're basically competing with each other.

I think anyone who considers Beefstew a long-term fit at 5 and that being part of the logjam here has it wrong. If we're going to be competitive with Stew it's got to be with him as a 4, IMO, Al Horford style. If he can't pull that off in a legit way with better perimeter defense and more consistent outside shooting, he's probably not on the team in 3-4 years.

Totally agree. I love Stew’s attitude and toughness, but when we become an elite team again (yes I’m optimistic), Stewart is our BACKUP 4.

[edmunder_prc]

Just read who the draft guru Weavers top guy was in 2020 if we won the lotto.

"Wiseman, who was the No. 2 overall pick in 2020, has long had fans in Detroit’s front office. According to team sources who were granted anonymity to speak freely, Wiseman was the top player on the Pistons’ big board during the 2020 NBA Draft process."

https://theathletic.com/4173719/2023/02/09/pistons-trade-james-wiseman-bey/

What was that based off of? Didn't Wiseman only play a few games in college and was pretty normal looking big man?

Most GMs are really bad at their jobs. In 2-3 years Weaver will likely (be honest here) not be the GM or we will all have our pitchforks out because Cade/Ivey/Duren still only put the Pistons as the 8th seed and we blew a ton of money on more Plumlee type signings.