Billups never wanted to leave the Pistons

BadMofoPimp · Post #1 » by **BadMofoPimp** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 4:55 pm

I bet the Pistons would never had to live at the bottom to rebuild as long as they have if they never traded Billups away. Think about it . . . they would not have had the cap room to sign CV and BG. Maybe, they would have signed lesser known players with the smaller cap space like defensive oriented players.

Even though he's played for his hometown Nuggets, the New York Knicks and now, the Los Angeles Clippers in that short span, Billups still talks as if the Pistons hold the biggest piece of his basketball heart.

"Honestly in my heart, I still feel like if they didn't make that move and move me, we'd still be an elite team in the league," Billups said. "Of course you have to make some changes, (adding) the young guys."

Billups noted the young talent on the Pistons' roster at that time, namely Rodney Stuckey and Arron Afflalo, and his belief the Pistons' success hadn't yet run its complete course, despite losing in Game 6 of the Eastern Conference Finals in the previous three years.

"I still had some great, great years left," Billups said. "I never wanted to leave, even though I was home (Denver) and it was good to be home, I always wanted to be a Piston. I wanted to retire a Piston."

If it sounds like a conflicted man having trouble comprehending the "why" behind a move that's occurred so many times in his career, you're right.

"I'm still … Even though I'm over it, I still don't get it," said Billups with a slight chuckle. "It wasn't like I was 36 or 37 and I couldn't rock anymore. I was still rocking. I was still in my prime."

From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/2012 ... z2FKSbJDmi

vege · Post #2 » by **vege** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:05 pm

Billups was lazy and cocky. Joe D fcked up big time with the cap space he got from the Billups + McDyess trade sign no defense at all players. Had he use the cap space properly we would've keep contending for a while.

And after that trade he fcked up even more giving Afflalo away to pay more money to Chris fcking Wilcox.

Han Solo · Post #3 » by **Han Solo** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:23 pm

Miss you Chauncey.

You are a Piston.

Post #4 » by **roc** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:31 pm

I have to wonder how we would look right now if Joe did the trade I wanted instead of acting on his AI mancrush and "loyalty" to send Billups home.

back then Portland was in need of a PG and were in win now mode.

I wanted Batum/Bayless/LaFrentz(exp covered by insurance)

That trade coupled with keeping AA and not adding CV/BG might not have changed our record much the past few years as we would still have been young and not ready to win. Hard to say what position in draft we get as a result but...

Knight/AA/Batum/Monroe/Dre with Stuckey as 6th man would be a very fun and balanced team.

DCintheD · Post #5 » by **DCintheD** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:39 pm

I hope he comes back this offseason

Han Solo · Post #6 » by **Han Solo** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:44 pm

http://www.nbauniverse.com/nbaplayers/i ... illups.jpg
Only jersey that ever looked right on him..

kamal2_espn · Post #7 » by **kamal2_espn** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 5:54 pm

Biggest mistake Joe made in his career was trading Chauncey (hiring Flip Saunders is second). Everything spiraled out of control from there.

What troubles me is that Joe Dumars, who is closer than anyone to this team aside from the staff and players, had no idea what he had in Billups. To think that Billups could be replaced by Iverson was ludicrous. To think that if it didn't work out with Iverson, Stuckey would fill the void was insane. And to think that a team that just won 59 games and reached the ECF the year before needed a MAJOR shake-up was flat out dumb.

Chauncey was the leader. The coach on the floor. He was the team's brain. Chauncey recognized mismatches and exploited them. Iverson tried to score on his man. Chauncey knew where everybody on his team wanted/needed the ball. Iverson knew how to get his shot off. Chauncey would post up smaller point guards, getting them in foul trouble and/or wear them down. Iverson was the smaller guard who got posted up.

If Joe wanted to win, he should've convinced Bill Davidson to spend some money and improve the bench and possibly tried to upgrade the small forward position (Tayshaun was always the weak link to me). But trading Billups should have NEVER been an option.

MrBigShot · Post #8 » by **MrBigShot** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:56 pm

kamal2_espn wrote:Biggest mistake Joe made in his career was trading Chauncey (hiring Flip Saunders is second). Everything spiraled out of control from there.

What troubles me is that Joe Dumars, who is closer than anyone to this team aside from the staff and players, had no idea what he had in Billups. To think that Billups could be replaced by Iverson was ludicrous. To think that if it didn't work out with Iverson, Stuckey would fill the void was insane. And to think that a team that just won 59 games and reached the ECF the year before needed a MAJOR shake-up was flat out dumb.

Chauncey was the leader. The coach on the floor. He was the team's brain. Chauncey recognized mismatches and exploited them. Iverson tried to score on his man. Chauncey knew where everybody on his team wanted/needed the ball. Iverson knew how to get his shot off. Chauncey would post up smaller point guards, getting them in foul trouble and/or wear them down. Iverson was the smaller guard who got posted up.

If Joe wanted to win, he should've convinced Bill Davidson to spend some money and improve the bench and possibly tried to upgrade the small forward position (Tayshaun was always the weak link to me). But trading Billups should have NEVER been an option.

I agree with pretty much everything you said. Joe D was really after Iverson's expiring contract though, for cap space reasons. Thinking Stuckey could fill the void was indeed silly.

I don't care what anyone else says, it was a terrible move and is the reason we will not be in contention for a LOOOONG time. I would have rather upgraded at the SF spot instead or gotten more bench depth. But to move Chauncey was stupid.

Look at what happened afterwards...the Nuggets get to the WCF(LOL no coincidence there.)and we lose something like 14 games straight and everything falls apart. So frustrating...we could have continued to contend, or at least be competitive and Rip/Chauncey/Sheed could have retired Pistons eventually.

This would be similar to the Celtics trading Paul Pierce or Rondo after losing to the Lakers in 09-10. Doesn't make sense to me....the fact that we are so terrible now makes me appreciate being able to watch a 6time ECF team, even if we only won one championship. We are so terrible now that we have to convince ourselves that we have potential as a team, when in reality we only have 3 good young players that will likely never make an all star team and a bunch of scrubs.

Also worth mentioning that we got off to a 4-0 start that year. I had a good feeling about that year.

Rekindled · Post #9 » by **Rekindled** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 6:59 pm

DCintheD wrote:I hope he comes back this offseason

Would he even be open to becoming a Piston again?

I personally doubt it.

Han Solo · Post #10 » by **Han Solo** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:14 pm

Rekindled wrote:
DCintheD wrote:I hope he comes back this offseason

Would he even be open to becoming a Piston again?

I personally doubt it.

Chauncey's age isn't a huge concern because of his style of play. He is not quick by any means but is one of the strongest PG's in the league.

I wouldn't mind it. If anything else, he mentors Knight and comes back to a team that desperately needs leadership. We should have NEVER traded him.

Joe D was afraid of his contract going forward and had a chance to get a scorers expiring deal, and at the time we needed a scorer. I can understand his thinking.

The biggest mistake was that he thought Rip or maybe Ben were the leaders of the team.

With the current group we have now, I would hope most Pistons fans realize that you can't put a price on leadership.

We have Corey Maggette, who thinks he's a leader. :lol:

Goldtop · Post #11 » by **Goldtop** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:28 pm

We should've kept Chauncey no doubt. But we also would never have had Monroe, Drummond, or Knight if we did. In the end it worked out the best for both parties. Chauncey is on a better team now than we would've had here, and we have a better young nuclues than we would've had we kept him.

BadMofoPimp · Post #12 » by **BadMofoPimp** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:37 pm

Chauncey would be a great tutor for Knight. . .

Post #13 » by **Snakebites** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:45 pm

There's absolutely no reason Billups would have any interest in coming back to tutor/back up Knight.

Nothing in it for him.

We never should have traded him, though I still rank the extension of Rip and the signings of Ben/Charlie as worse errors than that.

DCintheD · Post #14 » by **DCintheD** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 8:57 pm

offer him a job in the front office upon retirement and I bet he comes back for atleast a year

kamal2_espn · Post #15 » by **kamal2_espn** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:07 pm

Snakebites wrote:There's absolutely no reason Billups would have any interest in coming back to tutor/back up Knight.

Nothing in it for him.

We never should have traded him, though I still rank the extension of Rip and the signings of Ben/Charlie as worse errors than that.

The reason why I don't think extending Rip was a bad idea is because at the time, he had just come off of a great ECF, in which he pretty much won his battle with Ray Allen, 22 points on 53% shooting. He was showing no signs of slowing down at all.

The problem with extending Rip is that he fit perfectly with Chauncey. Sure, he might have a couple of good games without Chauncey but they complimented each other perfectly. You take Chauncey away, and Rip is not the same player.

As for the BG/CV singings, they were bad too. But again, the team had no point guard. No leader. I'm not saying those guys would have ever lived up to their contracts but in some alternated universe in which we had to the cap room and still keep Chauncey, I believe BG and CV probably play a lot better.

joseph mamah · Post #16 » by **joseph mamah** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:13 pm

if they had kept Chauncey, Rip and Tay and had Stuckey playing the combo off the bench we would have been alright. but without much cap space to work with, Joe would have had to pull a couple of rabbits out of his hat for the frontcourt or else we would have been a middling/purgatory type team.

the move that really f***** us obviously was taking Darko over Carmelo, Anthony still probably would have bolted for NY when his contract was up, but we would have got a similar package to the one Denver got for him which would have accelerated the rebuild. not to mention the extra chip or two we probably would have won during the GTW run.

AnnArborpiston · Post #17 » by **AnnArborpiston** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:26 pm

Chauncey played well for the Nuggets and the knicks because he had a big chip on his shoulder, and had something to prove.

His last season with the Pistons was nothing more than a joke to him. He didn't care at all. They got their championship and started to cruise.

Those seasons were harder to watch than now in my opinion. They should have won 60 games a year, but instead chilled out till the 4th quarter in each game.

We did the right thing in trading Chauncey, the problem was reigning Rip before that trade!! Then signing both CV and BG was teh icing on the cake.

We should have let Rip walk. Played Stuckey and Afflalo at the 1 and 2, saved our cap space for a trade in the lines of what the Lakers did to get Gasol.

Kilo · Post #18 » by **Kilo** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:37 pm

Chauncey and that team were not going to win anything. And it would mean bitchmade Hamilton would still be here. We might have won enough to get the 8th playoff seed a couple of seasons, a quick first round knock out and worse draft picks.

kamal2_espn · Post #19 » by **kamal2_espn** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 9:37 pm

IMO, the biggest mistakes Joe made were:

1. Trading Chauncey (ruined the team. Highlighted the awful Curry hire. Created animosity with the players)
2. Hiring Flip Saunders (Changed the team's culture and pushed Ben away)
3. Drafting Darko (wasted opportunity to draft an elite player. Should've traded down and taken Bosh)
4. Hiring Frank (Hiring a guard happy coach after drafting a promising young big in Monroe was dumb)
5. Hiring Kuester (Hiring a guy with personality issues after the previous coach had personality issues was dumb)

I know the other stuff like re-signing Rip, bringing over BG/CV are big screw-ups for some. But I believe those things don't look as bad if Joe doesn't screw-up the other stuff first.

RTM · Post #20 » by **RTM** » Mon Dec 17, 2012 11:09 pm

We should have kept Chauncey. But we all know that.

Now if I want to take advantage of revisionist history, what we should have:

- Accepted the rumored Grizz offer of Stuckey+ (I think our first? can't find a link) for the 5th pick, and drafted Kevin Love
- Bring in a cheap backup like CJ Watson, and maybe even Lindsey Hunter's old bones for another season
- Keep Chauncey and McDyess, do not extend Rip and Maxiell
- Not trade Afflalo and Amir, use Sheed as trade bait

And play out the season with:

Chauncey / Watson / Hunter / Bynum
Rip / Afflalo / Acker
Prince / Hermann
McDyess / Love / Maxiell
Sheed / Kwame / Amir

Then keep Billups/Rip/Prince in place, with Afflalo/Love as the young pieces to integrate.