Ender's Game

[The Penguin]

1) strip the roster (let the FA walk, waive Stuckey on the partial guarantee, amnesty CV31) down to:

Knight
English
Middleton/Singler
Monroe/Jerebko
Drummond/Krav

Cap room ~ $ 30 mil

Trade 1: Pistons trade 2013 1st to Washington for Okafor/Ariza/Unprotected 2014 1st

-Washington gets a cheap asset this year and cap room this summer. Pistons get another ticket for the Wiggins Sweepstakes

Trade 2: Pistons trade Kim English to Lakers for Steve Blake/Chris Duhon/Unprotected 2014 1st

-Lakers save huge money due to lux tax considerations, Pistons rent out cap space for another 1st

Draft- LeBryan Nash in the 2nd

2014:

Knight/Blake/Duhon
Middleton/Singler
Ariza/Nash
Monroe/Okafor/Jerebko
Drummond/Krav

Tank like we've never tanked before. Adding our pick to Washington's pick gives us a shot at landing the big prize: Andrew Wiggins

Best case- we land Wiggins, he lives up to his "next Lebron" potential and Wiggins, Drummond, Monroe & Knight go on a multi championship run.

Worst case - we have a year more of development for our young players and can find out more about Knight, Middleton and Singler's long term prospects. We'd also have 3 picks in a better draft in 2014 and still have enough cap room (even with a Monroe extension) to make one major FA addition in a better FA class of the 2014 summer.

[ComboGuardCity]

That's a losers mentality IMO. And Nash isn't coming out this year.

[princeofpalace]

I don't believe high school prospect hype

[DetroitSho]

This "Tank for Wiggins" stuff sounds just like "Tank for Shabazz" stuff from last year.

[MrBigShot]

And what happens if we DONT get Wiggins? You can't base a whole plan off of tanking for one guy. Even if the Wiz had the worst record, we would still only have a 25% chance of getting the 1st pick.

Huge step backwards imo. We need to keep this pick and take one of McLemore/Porter/Shabazz/Oladipo and one of them WILL be available if we get a top 5 pick because Noel/Smart/Bennet will likely get picked in the top 5 as well.

[Jodi]

That's a losers mentality IMO.

[The Penguin]

And what happens if we DONT get Wiggins? You can't base a whole plan off of tanking for one guy. Even if the Wiz had the worst record, we would still only have a 25% chance of getting the 1st pick.

Huge step backwards imo. We need to keep this pick and take one of McLemore/Porter/Shabazz/Oladipo and one of them WILL be available if we get a top 5 pick because Noel/Smart/Bennet will likely get picked in the top 5 as well.

Next summer we would have multi firsts in a better draft and the cap room to sign a FA.

[ComboGuardCity]

And what happens if we DONT get Wiggins? You can't base a whole plan off of tanking for one guy. Even if the Wiz had the worst record, we would still only have a 25% chance of getting the 1st pick.

Huge step backwards imo. We need to keep this pick and take one of McLemore/Porter/Shabazz/Oladipo and one of them WILL be available if we get a top 5 pick because Noel/Smart/Bennet will likely get picked in the top 5 as well.

Next summer we would have multi firsts in a better draft and the cap room to sign a FA.

No we really won't. Moose gets his max.

[ImHeisenberg]

English has a team option for his second year, so there's no guarantee he's back.

Otherwise, I only like the first trade because I don't believe Detroit has a shot at getting anyone great this year.

The second trade idea is moot. Lakers can't trade back to back first round picks. So, it literally can't happen.

Although, I have to agree on the "tank for Wiggins" chants are similar to "tank for Shabazz" from a year ago, now the guy isn't even a top 10 lock.

[Brapman]

Admittedly, your trade proposals make my head swim. I cannot imagine teams giving up #1 draft picks in next year's draft for the junk you're offering. If they were inclined to do so, they'd want a young throw in player that they like (JJ? Singler? Middleton?) as part of the deal.

Finally, love your thread reference to the Orson Scott Card book -- he's excellent and that series of books is awesome.

[Dirtgrain]

Dumars needs to sell tickets. It's urgent.

[The Penguin]

Next summer we would have multi firsts in a better draft and the cap room to sign a FA.

No we really won't. Moose gets his max.

Summer of '14:

Monroe ~ $14 M
Drummond ~ $3 M
Knight ~ $3 M
Krav ~ $1.5 M
Singler ~ $1 M
Jerebko ~$4.5 M
Middleton ~$.5 M

Team salary committed for 2014 ~ $28.5 M

Cap room left (after deducting ~ $ 5 M for rookies) = ~$20 M

Explain to me why we won't have cap room that summer if we decide to save it for then.

[ComboGuardCity]

Next summer we would have multi firsts in a better draft and the cap room to sign a FA.

No we really won't. Moose gets his max.

Summer of '14:

Monroe ~ $14 M
Drummond ~ $3 M
Knight ~ $3 M
Krav ~ $1.5 M
Singler ~ $1 M
Jerebko ~$4.5 M
Middleton ~$.5 M

Team salary committed for 2014 ~ $28.5 M

Cap room left (after deducting ~ $ 5 M for rookies) = ~$20 M

Explain to me why we won't have cap room that summer if we decide to save it for then.

So you're assuming we're only signing one year rentals next year? That's not happening.

[The Penguin]

Admittedly, your trade proposals make my head swim. I cannot imagine teams giving up #1 draft picks in next year's draft for the junk you're offering. If they were inclined to do so, they'd want a young throw in player that they like (JJ? Singler? Middleton?) as part of the deal.

Finally, love your thread reference to the Orson Scott Card book -- he's excellent and that series of books is awesome.

1) The Wizards give out nearly $20 mil of contracts. Since Wall is due a max extension next year will be his last cheap year on a rookie deal. The Wiz would get a good pick in this years draft and would free up cap room to get close to the Josh Smith/Andre Iguodala discussions. They gamble on adding a FA with a couple of high draft picks to their Wall/Beal/Nene core making them a playoff team. We gamble on them being too young yet to hit the next level.

2) The Lakers deal would happen after the draft (to those saying it's impossible). That deal combined with an amnesty of Ron Artest could save the franchise tens of millions of dollars when lux tax considerations are added.

[Brapman]

I get you. That is something similar to what Joe's been saying, that our cap space would be a potentially huge asset (to free teams from salary problems next season).

However, I'm not sure Joe/Gores want to commit to sucking that badly for another season. I'd bet that Plan A is to bring in some very good veterans this summer - guys who can be important assets for the team for the next two or three seasons. If we're able to pull off trades, I think it would be for young vets and that other teams would resist giving up #1 picks in what's supposed to be an all-time great draft in 2014.

[The Penguin]

So you're assuming we're only signing one year rentals next year? That's not happening.

Yes, I'm assuming that instead of repeating the BG/CV31 summer and throwing a bunch of money at OJ Mayo because he's the best available option and there's money to spend we take a more measured approach.

I'm not saying we sign any one year rentals, I'm saying we should sell off our cap space for guys on contracts that expire next year plus draft picks/young guys on rookie deals.

I'm aware my approach isn't happening. I've been following this team for years. I remember when we gave Afflalo and Amir away for more cap room to sign Chris Wilcox. I'm proposing we learn from our mistakes and be the team on the receiving end of cap rental sweetener. I'm aware my thoughts are unpopular and that people are just dying to become a treadmill team that gets swept by Miami in round 1. My desire is to see the Pistons win multiple championships instead of taking short cuts to produce a team that could top out at a Finals appearance if all went exactly right.

[The Penguin]

I get you. That is something similar to what Joe's been saying, that our cap space would be a potentially huge asset (to free teams from salary problems next season).

However, I'm not sure Joe/Gores want to commit to sucking that badly for another season. I'd bet that Plan A is to bring in some very good veterans this summer - guys who can be important assets for the team for the next two or three seasons. If we're able to pull off trades, I think it would be for young vets and that other teams would resist giving up #1 picks in what's supposed to be an all-time great draft in 2014.

Cleveland has repeated rented out tax space the last few years (ie the Speights and a future 1st for Jon Lauer trade). With the repeater tax and 3:1 rule now teams in that range have much higher deterants to spending whatever they wish. People on RealGM often trash trade ideas because the talent levels in the deals are off while ignoring that money is typically the main driver in NBA trades.

The simple fact of the matter is due to supply (available FAs) and demand (teams with a cap window this summer) that Josh Smith and Andre Igoudala will get max deals and Mayo, Tyreke and Brandon Jennings will likely come close if not actually hitting the max. Look at the past few summers: Rudy Gay, Eric Gordon, Roy Hibbert, Nic Batum are any of those guys true "max" players? There's only so many players worth spending money on and teams are going to spend the money they have to try and woo them. The only players who ever sign FA "deals" are diamonds in the rough, ring chasers and legit superstarts. There's none of the superstars available and no ring chasers are coming here, which leaves us to look for diamonds or sign a deal that's a bad contract as soon as the ink is fresh.

Are we really in that big of a rush to repeat BG/CV31?

[Brapman]

No - I'm not wanting to repeat BG/CV. But we sure could go after lower priced veterans - guys who would be happy with the mid-range or a bit less or a bit more. Perhaps Corey Brewer type players - guys who are very good role players.

I don't know which guys in particular to target. But I would like to add solid veterans off the bench to go with all of our young talent. Monroe, Drummond and Knight, Singler, Middleton and our #1 pick is a very young, potentially very talented core, all of whom (except the rook) who we can expect to see make major steps forward in their careers. Surround them with solid professionals who fit our system and our needs (D, 3pt shooting). We don't have to overpay for non-max players and we shouldn't. Definitely don't hamstring our future by overpaying players who are at the $8 - $15 million dollar level in their demands. But we sure could overpay someone at the $3-$7 level with their demands. Those contracts are much easier to work around.

[The Penguin]

No - I'm not wanting to repeat BG/CV. But we sure could go after lower priced veterans - guys who would be happy with the mid-range or a bit less or a bit more. Perhaps Corey Brewer type players - guys who are very good role players.

I don't know which guys in particular to target. But I would like to add solid veterans off the bench to go with all of our young talent. Monroe, Drummond and Knight, Singler, Middleton and our #1 pick is a very young, potentially very talented core, all of whom (except the rook) who we can expect to see make major steps forward in their careers. Surround them with solid professionals who fit our system and our needs (D, 3pt shooting). We don't have to overpay for non-max players and we shouldn't. Definitely don't hamstring our future by overpaying players who are at the $8 - $15 million dollar level in their demands. But we sure could overpay someone at the $3-$7 level with their demands. Those contracts are much easier to work around.

The $3-$7 million range is tough territory to operate in as that's right in the MLE wheelhouse and the really good MLE guys would likely sign on with teams like the Heat, Knicks, Lakers, Bulls, Celtics for the rings.

I'm really not in love with any of these free agents. If we can accumulate chips (draft picks, rookie scale players) by selling cap space that seems the clear way to go. I look at Houston (gradually building chips then cashing in for Harden) and OKC (patiently acquiring their core guys, resigning them then acquiring complementary parts) as the models we should follow with our young core. I'm completely fine with signing a couple of one year prove it/fliers (ie Al-Farouq Aminu (still just 22), Jerryd Bayless (24) and Wesley Johnson).

Personally I'd rather we give our draft pick, Middleton, Singler and any of the one year 23-25 year old FAs actual pt to see if we've got anything over bringing in band aids like Tony Allen. I get people are tired of losing and have high yearly expecations but the surest road to a championship is having a top 5-10 player and Drummond is the only guy we have with that ceiling.

[Brapman]

Personally I'd rather we give our draft pick, Middleton, Singler and any of the one year 23-25 year old FAs actual pt to see if we've got anything over bringing in band aids like Tony Allen. I get people are tired of losing and have high yearly expecations but the surest road to a championship is having a top 5-10 player and Drummond is the only guy we have with that ceiling.

I agree with this. If we can't get some good bargains in FA or via trade, then your plan is by far my favorite.

BTW, however, I wouldn't rule out Monroe being a top 10 player in the NBA - not top 5, however.

Drummond could be a top 3 player (in time).