RealGM

Joe's success (or lack of) has covered a wide spectrum since taking over as P.O.B.O... One of our beloved players has become the guy that the masses want to bury in a landfill.
What nobody has been able to identify is when his contract is up... I did find that he signed his last extension in August of 2005... a very long deal for any executive.
This may be the first time when he is actually receiving pressure from the top to perform at a high level...
Is he capable of learning from recent failures?
Does the past 3 years draft record buy him some more time?
Most "fence sitters" view this as his last year to get it right.

The man... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Dumars

His track record... http://hoopshype.com/general_managers/joe_dumars.htm

He's had a lot of ups and downs, but i still think he's capable of putting together a team that can contend in time.
its been a pretty hard few years recently, but we are now in a potentially great position going forward.
I have faith but im running out of patience.

I never understood the "one more year to get it right" mindset, because he's not going to be signing a bunch of FAs to 1 yr deals and hiring a coach for 1 season. So if he gets it wrong this offseason, we are going to be left with the mess for the next 3-4 yrs. Its got to be either all in with Joe for 3-4 yrs, or all out and go with someone else asap to make these big decisions this offseason.

If Gores calls this a defining summer for the franchise, surely he's not going to let someone who could be gone next year make all the moves. So by keeping him it tells me Gores is committed to Joe for the long run.

Who knows though, maybe that is all about to change depending on what happens with this coaching search. If it ends up that Phil gets his way and we hire Shaw, maybe Joe could still be out, or maybe he stays but has some of his power relinquished so that he can't totally F up this offseason and leave us with the mess.

Joe has set us up great, but if he's only going to use the opportunity he's created to sign a bunch of mediocre players in FA/trades and hire another mediocre coach, then its all for naught. We need a GM who is at least looking to make major moves this summer, because we are set up to do so. If Joe doesn't want to take advantage of that, then he needs to be replaced by someone who does.

I'm fine with Joe staying. I just want to see some more ambition out of him. Based on some of the FAs I've heard he may go after - like Jarret Jack and Gerald Henderson, combined with the 2 coach's he's most interested in - Cheeks and McMillan....there;s nothing ambitious whatsoever about that clusterphuck of mediocrity.

If thats the type of guys he's targeting as our big summer makeover, then no I don't want him anymore.

I'm fine with joe staying and I know how joe thinks. He personally looks for players that shoot over 45% field goal and have high IQ or defense. He likes a big that can stretch and play Defense. He has Drummond and that's his one piece. He doesn't have a big that can stretch the floor an play defense. That's why he wanted cousins and we are all hoping and Praying Monroe develops these skills. I can see him targeting Andre iguodala for a max contract. Andre shoots 45% I believe and plays defense. He also fills a position of need at small forward. I can see joe signing dalembert because he's a big that plays defense and I can also see joe sign Gerald Henderson bc he's a 2-guard who shoots 45% field goal. the las piece is a point guard and I think that is supposed to be Calderon bc he also shoots over 45% and 40% from three. And the coach should be MCmillan bc he has a good track record and he does fit the piston "mold".

In recent years he's drafted Drummond, Knight, Monroe, Jerebko, Singler, Middleton. Since he's had operational control again, which he didn't have in the last few seasons before that while the team was getting ready to be sold, he's created $25 to $30 million in cap room.

A lot of good decisions have been made in the past few seasons. Talk about firing Joe is just empty talk about firing Joe. Tom Gores has said nothing about getting rid of Dumars.

It's amusing that people who can't possibly know are somehow clear that Dumars is on a short leash, has to prove himself this season, etc. The question Gores has to evaluate is: Is his franchise on the right track? do we have a good plan in place? IMO, Joe is going to have his job for as long as he wants it, because he has a great track record, has dealt with the down years after being on top longer than any team in BB except for the Tim Duncan Spurs, and is growing the team again into a very nice product with some top young talent.

Do I know this for sure? No. Can anyone say they have inside information that Gores is going to clean house? No.

Brapman wrote:In recent years he's drafted Drummond, Knight, Monroe, Jerebko, Singler, Middleton. Since he's had operational control again, which he didn't have in the last few seasons before that while the team was getting ready to be sold, he's created $25 to $30 million in cap room.

Drummond, Knight, Monroe were the obvious choices at those spots. The vast majority of people that post here could have made those picks... so IMO Joe doesn't deserve credit for making the same choice any of us would have made... none of us have the info he has yet he still went with Knight!

A lot of good decisions have been made in the past few seasons. Talk about firing Joe is just empty talk about firing Joe. Tom Gores has said nothing about getting rid of Dumars.

A lot of those good decisions have corrected mistakes Joe made! Does he deserve credit for making a foolish choice and then fixing it?

Gores hasn't publicly stated that Joe is on a short leash.... but he did over-rule Joe on the last Coach (Joe wanted Woodson... Gores hired Frank) and also publicily annnounced Phil Jackson was advising the franchise on the coaching search

Does that mean Joe is on a short leash? Maybe, maybe not. It does show that Gores isn't tied to Joe and is willing to do what he wants and talk to who he wants about his organisation...

Joe used to run the franchise as he saw fit... that doesn't seem to be the way it works anymore!

It's amusing that people who can't possibly know are somehow clear that Dumars is on a short leash, has to prove himself this season, etc. The question Gores has to evaluate is: Is his franchise on the right track? do we have a good plan in place? IMO, Joe is going to have his job for as long as he wants it, because he has a great track record, has dealt with the down years after being on top longer than any team in BB except for the Tim Duncan Spurs, and is growing the team again into a very nice product with some top young talent.

Do I know this for sure? No. Can anyone say they have inside information that Gores is going to clean house? No.

I agree with this. None of us know for sure - but if we only discussed things we knew then we'd all get pretty bored after a day or so.

We don't KNOW much... we think we know, we can guess, we can gather info that is available and make logical conclusions...

And IMO this was the perfect time for Joe to once again put the team above his own interests and "retire"... leaving the next GM with Drummond, Knight, Monroe and plenty of cap space to work with.

Joe didn't do that and Gores didn;t have the balls to fire him, so here we are. Wondering if Ol' Joe can once again catch lightning in a bottle. Methinks he can't... but Lord I am desperate to see him do it again!

I'm pretty neutral on Dumars. Like any GM, he's made some great signings and draft picks, and made some really dumb and terrible picks. The thing is, most GM's don't keep their job long enough to build as many bad decisions as Joe has going against him.

I think Joe has done an alright job. But, I also believe he's not particularly unique in his position. He isn't the only person who can do the job.

Perhaps he isn't. But the thing is he HAS done his job and built, from worse than nothing, a championship team that had a very long run. He also has the reputation of a great GM to play for.

The 2nd generation championship Pistons had outstanding players to build around - Big Ben, Chauncey. Seriously, they were fine, all-star caliber guys. Ben was one of the great defensive players of any generation. Joe built a cohesive team around those guys - and that was pretty masterful building. But none of those guys was a superstar, a top 3 or top 5 in the league player.

This time around, our organization builds, we have a potential elite player as our centerpiece. If Drummond develops like we believe he can and optimistically say he will, he's going to be one of those players that great players want to play with. With some very fine players around him, starting with Monroe, and hopefully a few other young guys of note (Knight, Singler, Middleton, the pick this year hopefully among them), and with a trusted GM like Joe, in a couple seasons there really is no reason why the Pistons won't be considered a prime destination by some of the top guys and many of the top role players.

Watch this year. Indiana of all places, will suddenly be a very attractive franchise for players to sign with. I'm taking the long view of franchise building. The Pistons are a very young team that now has the seeds in place to grow into a very signficant team. We don't have to have this all sorted out this season. Just keep making intelligent team building choices, including not killing our flexibility with contracts that result in overpaying guys who aren't big stars. If Joe can do this well now, and the team stays relatively patient, in two or three seasons we can look to make a Pacer's like leap.

I think Knight needs to stop being including in the list of Joe's recent draft success, as he's looking like a 6th man at best right now. Which for the 8th pick is not a success, when he could've taken Klay Thompson and had a starting SG with all-star potential.

Brapman wrote:Watch this year. Indiana of all places, will suddenly be a very attractive franchise for players to sign with. I'm taking the long view of franchise building. The Pistons are a very young team that now has the seeds in place to grow into a very signficant team. We don't have to have this all sorted out this season. Just keep making intelligent team building choices, including not killing our flexibility with contracts that result in overpaying guys who aren't big stars. If Joe can do this well now, and the team stays relatively patient, in two or three seasons we can look to make a Pacer's like leap.

idk, to me the Pacers scream of a team that's always going to finish in 2nd. If I'm building a team, I'm patterning it after MIA, not IND.

Goldtop wrote:I think Knight needs to stop being including in the list of Joe's recent draft success, as he's looking like a 6th man at best right now. Which for the 8th pick is not a success, when he could've taken Klay Thompson and had a starting SG with all-star potential.

Too early to call knight a bust.

dVs33 wrote:

Goldtop wrote:I think Knight needs to stop being including in the list of Joe's recent draft success, as he's looking like a 6th man at best right now. Which for the 8th pick is not a success, when he could've taken Klay Thompson and had a starting SG with all-star potential.

Too early to call knight a bust.

I didn't call him a bust, I called him a 6th man. As of right now that's all he looks like.

Its too early to call him anything but a 6th man.

Joe D was awesome.....until (and including when) he signed McDyess.

Since then, he's been straight up bad.

"Whatever."

Signed,

JJ, Knight, Singler, Monroe, Drummond and Middleton.

Brapman wrote:"Whatever."

Signed,

JJ, Knight, Singler, Monroe, Drummond and Middleton.

He's made many, many bad moves since McDyess. And 6 draft picks (3 of whom are 2nd rounders) aren't going to be his saving grace.

Brapman wrote:"Whatever."

Signed,

JJ, Knight, Singler, Monroe, Drummond and Middleton.

"Whatever" @ Jerebko, Knight, Singler, and Middelton being anything Joe should be gloating about.

Goldtop wrote:

dVs33 wrote:

Goldtop wrote:I think Knight needs to stop being including in the list of Joe's recent draft success, as he's looking like a 6th man at best right now. Which for the 8th pick is not a success, when he could've taken Klay Thompson and had a starting SG with all-star potential.

Too early to call knight a bust.

I didn't call him a bust, I called him a 6th man. As of right now that's all he looks like.

Its too early to call him anything but a 6th man.

Right now he's not a consistent starter, but he should still be on the list as a positive asset for Joe D.
He's still in the early stages of his development.

Joe's magic is gone. Been gone since 2008, probably earlier depending on who you ask.

At this point fans are just trying to convince themselves that he will (or can?) recapture what he once had. I guess that's all we can do since he won't be fired this summer.

These days he's lacking the vision and imagination to get us back to where we need to be. The best thing we could have done was thank him for what he did during the "Goin' To Work" Era and getting us a nice young frontcourt to work with for the future and replace him with a GM that has some fresh ideas.

We have a scary summer ahead of us. An owner that's getting impatient with losing, a GM who's seat is getting a little warm, and a lot of money in an underwhelming FA class. I'm crossing my fingers and my toes come July.

Goldtop wrote:

Brapman wrote:Watch this year. Indiana of all places, will suddenly be a very attractive franchise for players to sign with. I'm taking the long view of franchise building. The Pistons are a very young team that now has the seeds in place to grow into a very signficant team. We don't have to have this all sorted out this season. Just keep making intelligent team building choices, including not killing our flexibility with contracts that result in overpaying guys who aren't big stars. If Joe can do this well now, and the team stays relatively patient, in two or three seasons we can look to make a Pacer's like leap.

idk, to me the Pacers scream of a team that's always going to finish in 2nd. If I'm building a team, I'm patterning it after MIA, not IND.

Yeah cause using the Heat blue print for success is plausible for Detroit. LMFAO!