Pistons Hindsight: James Harden

ImHeisenberg · Post #1 » by **ImHeisenberg** » Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:09 am

Hindsight is 20/20, we're all aware of this. While the debating over coaches, draft picks and free agents has seemingly come to a lull, I figured we could talk about some alternate history.

I came up with this idea when thinking about Detroit's current situation. Detroit are looking at 20+ million in cap space in the hope to become a bottom seeded playoff team. While Houston sit in a similar financial situation but are looking to spend that money to push themselves over the top and into a championship contender.

So, I ask-

1- In hindsight, would you have traded Greg Monroe, Brandon Knight and a future first for Harden if it were last summer?

2- If that deal did in fact happen in our revisionist history, how would that have effected last season? The player movements? And, Detroit's outlook this off season?

Discuss. I'll chip in later.

Piston Pete · Post #2 » by **Piston Pete** » Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:13 am

1) Nope. Harden's nice, really nice. But Monroe/Knight/1st is too much to give up.

2) If the deal indeed went thru, for argument's sake, we probably would have been worse last season and depending on what other moves we made...we'd likely be looking to draft a PF or PG in this season's draft.

Sheeeeed · Post #3 » by **Sheeeeed** » Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:19 am

Hes no Rodney Stuckey.

DCintheD · Post #4 » by **DCintheD** » Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:25 am

Piston Pete wrote:2) If the deal indeed went thru, for argument's sake, we probably would have been worse last season and depending on what other moves we made...we'd likely be looking to draft a PF or PG in this season's draft.

Would have been nice to build with Harden, Drummod and a top pick in this draft plus 20 mil to spend this offseason

ImHeisenberg · Post #5 » by **ImHeisenberg** » Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:30 am

I'm surprised by the mildly negative reaction to the notion.

Harden is a top 20 player, its said that it takes two top 20 players to win a title, Drummond could potentially be the second one.

Harden averaged 26 points and almost 6 assists a game this last season, he would have lead the team in both of those categories, while posting a PER of 23.00.

If they did make that deal, I think they would have been in the playoffs. Drummond would have started much sooner, and Detroit would have had a very large back court with Stuckey and Harden. Detroit would probably still have pulled the Calderon deal, and Detroit would have been a great outside shooting team that ran teams out of the gym.

I'd have done that deal without blinking, especially if you made it a distant first round pick.

Pharaoh · Post #6 » by **Pharaoh** » Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:32 am

IF we're gonna do this you could go back to 2003 and draft Bosh at #2.

With LB as Coach he wouldn't have played much - but likely more than Darko.

We still would have made the Sheed trade because it was one of those "too good to be true" situations...

We still win the title, we still lose Okur and keep Sheed, still sign Dice...

the difference is we never would have sucked!

Bosh would have taken Big Ben's place in the starting line-up when he got his payday from the Bulls... and if we drafted David Lee instead of Maxiell.... WOW!

then if we didn't fire Flip and bring in Curry and never traded Chauncey we wouldn't have had cap space to sign Ben Gordon and CV-DNP... never would have traded Afflalo

the starting 5: Bosh, Lee, Prince, Afflalo, Stuckey.. with Billups about to retire and replace Flip who we would have kept all these years through the "passing of the torch" phase.

One of our last 3 Draft picks would have been a PG... and I believe we passed on one to get Daye (too many mistakes to remember them all)... but why bother going any further?

Not getting Harden = us not trading for Ray Allen and Rondo = not drafting better while we were contenders (Darko, Maxiell instead of Bosh and David Lee) = we're exactly where we are right now

The Penguin · Post #7 » by **The Penguin** » Fri Jun 14, 2013 3:14 am

In hindsight Monroe/Knight/1st is still too much to give up. The Thunder got nowhere near Monroe in the deal. IMO Knight/Prince/unprotected 1st/Singler is on the level of what the Thunder got for Harden.

Realistically I'd trade anything and everything outside of Drummond/Monroe for Harden.

Post #8 » by **theBigLip** » Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:16 am

monroe-knight-1st is 3 starters. too much. but I'd sure like to have the Beard at SG

Clarity · Post #9 » by **Clarity** » Fri Jun 14, 2013 5:22 am

I would trade Monroe for no one that would be available.

Wings are WAY easier to find than great bigs.

Post #10 » by **dVs33** » Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:16 am

i wouldn't have given up that much for harden.

i think something based around knight, 1st and say Maggette, then we'd be in business.

Sheedpocalypse · Post #11 » by **Sheedpocalypse** » Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:25 am

This is maybe the only trade revolving Monroe that's worth a look. Seriously, the players I have seen in off season plans offered for Monroe... Weird...

Harden on the other hand is a legitimate gamechanger. So I would be intrigued...

Jodi · Post #12 » by **Jodi** » Fri Jun 14, 2013 6:30 am

dVs33 wrote:i wouldn't have given up that much for harden.

i think something based around knight, 1st and say Maggette, then we'd be in business.

I agree with this...Dang, it would be so hard to trade Knight...But Harden is a beast though...

c-dot · Post #13 » by **c-dot** » Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:18 am

Hindsight is 20/20 but its hard to sell the idea of trading two starters and a 1st for a 6th man, that's too risky.

ElectricMayhem · Post #14 » by **ElectricMayhem** » Fri Jun 14, 2013 9:04 am

We couldn't have given up the 1st unless it was 4 years in the future due to the Gordon trade....Or are we assuming that didn't happen?

rmfc · Post #15 » by **rmfc** » Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:46 pm

Despite Harden's horrible "hairstyle" & beard, I just absolutely love his game...and have always been a fan.

Monroe + Knight for Harden -- Absolutely.
Monroe + 1 -- Absolutely.
Monroe + Knight + 1 -- that may be a little too much.

Harden may not be Stuckey-calibre...but he is still pretty good.

Minas · Post #16 » by **Minas** » Fri Jun 14, 2013 12:53 pm

Piston Pete wrote:1) Nope. Harden's nice, really nice. But Monroe/Knight/1st is too much to give up.

2) If the deal indeed went thru, for argument's sake, we probably would have been worse last season and depending on what other moves we made...we'd likely be looking to draft a PF or PG in this season's draft.

This. I remember on opening night last season there was a big thread of people saying that Stuck was better than him :lol:

I didn't think that he would have such a great impact at Houston and I didn't dislike the trade at the time but wow, in hindsight OKC really shouldn't have done that deal.

Blkbrd671 · Post #17 » by **Blkbrd671** » Fri Jun 14, 2013 1:37 pm

Post #18 » by **Timmaytime** » Fri Jun 14, 2013 7:23 pm

Harden is a top ten player, he averaged 26 points per game on 60%TS (6th among qualified guards). Monroe is a good big man and Knight might become a good combo guard.

Just imagine it this way, the only thing we do differently is this trade, that leaves us with a core of Calderon/Harden/Drummond this past season with about 15million(ish) to go into free agency. Cut Stuck and Amnesty CV to create money for resigning Calderon and then sign Josh Smith. Draft Kabongo/Canaan/Wolters to develop behind Calderon and then go forward a couple years

Tell me Harden/Smoove/Drummond + a point that's been training behind Calderon and a better Middleton/Singler isn't tempting

Post #19 » by **Cowology** » Fri Jun 14, 2013 11:28 pm

Tough. The big for small argument is the real kicker. It's pretty clear that Harden is the superior player and it's tough to argue against a Harden/Drummond core. That's kinda like having Wade/Dwight and $15-20 mil to spend. Throwing in Knight is nothing to me and the future pick isn't *that* big a deal to me. The value is OK, but I like our size.

If we can land a closer, even if they aren't as good as Harden, that may ultimately prove to be the better scenario. It really depends on just how well our bigs fit together. If Monroe develops that J our frontline is gonna be beastly. I'll ride with my Twin Towers scenario for now, and hope we draft and spend wisely.

ImHeisenberg · Post #20 » by **ImHeisenberg** » Sat Jun 15, 2013 1:57 am

Cowology wrote:Tough. The big for small argument is the real kicker. It's pretty clear that Harden is the superior player and it's tough to argue against a Harden/Drummond core. That's kinda like having Wade/Dwight and $15-20 mil to spend. Throwing in Knight is nothing to me and the future pick isn't *that* big a deal to me. The value is OK, but I like our size.

If we can land a closer, even if they aren't as good as Harden, that may ultimately prove to be the better scenario. It really depends on just how well our bigs fit together. If Monroe develops that J our frontline is gonna be beastly. I'll ride with my Twin Towers scenario for now, and hope we draft and spend wisely.

Nice analysis. Basically, the idea of a Harden/Drummond core sounds incredibly promising. Like I said, it's all hypothetical.