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Pistons should consider trading down for lower picks, future picks or talent. OKC wants to move up in the draft from #12. Pistons want an extra pick or young talent. The tier of players the Pistons have been looking at ( CJ, Shabazz, Williams, Zeller, or KCP. One or two of these players will be there at #12. We could get the 29th pick, or Perry Jones . I don't think they'll offer J Lamb.

No. If the rumors of Dallas wanting to dump salary/trade the 13th pick are true, then thats what they should do. If that works, then you...maybe...trade one of those picks (8 or 13) to move down to secure future picks (New England Patriot style).

Do both...

1) Marion and #13 for Singler.
2) #8 to OKC for #12, and PJ3


12 = SG Shabazz, KCP, or Crabbe
13 = SF Giannis A. or Karasev

Do hold your breath waiting on Dallas 13th pick, There are several teams out there that want that pick & Marion. What's the best offer Pistons can do?

Ballboar wrote:Do hold your breath waiting on Dallas 13th pick, There are several teams out there that want that pick & Marion. What's the best offer Pistons can do?

They want 3 second rounders, only 7 teams (correct me if i'm wrong) have 2 this year. Count the Hawks out assuming they're going for Dwight/CP3, The Grizzlies, Wizards and Sixers(assuming they bring back Bynum) have no cap room to take on Marion, That leaves the Cavs, Blazers, and us. We can offer #37, #56, 2014 Second rounder and Singler.

I don't think the Pistons want a second rookie, given the have five sophomores still on a steep learning curve and a new coach/system that all will have to learn, meaning less time to baby rookies to get them up to speed.

Also if we traded for the #13 and took on Marion, it would basically be undoing the Gordon trade, and boil it down to us trading the protected future first for the #13 this year. The future first is top eight protected next season and then only top one protected from there on out.

Cleveland have too many draft picks. This year 31st 33rd plus all this:
2013 first round draft pick from L.A. Lakers
L.A. Lakers' 2013 1st round pick to Cleveland [Cleveland-L.A. Lakers, 3/15/2012]

2013 second round draft pick from Orlando
Orlando's 2013 2nd round pick to Cleveland [Cleveland-Orlando, 6/23/2011]

2014 first round draft pick from Sacramento
Sacramento's 1st round pick to Cleveland protected for selections 1-12 in 2014, 1-10 in 2015, 1-10 in 2016 or 1-10 in 2017; if Sacramento has not conveyed a 1st round pick to Cleveland by 2017, then Sacramento's 2017 2nd round pick to Cleveland protected for selections 56-60 (if this pick falls within its protected range and is therefore not conveyed, then Sacramento's obligation to Cleveland will be extinguished) [Cleveland-Sacramento, 6/30/2011]

2014 second round draft pick from Memphis
Memphis' 2014 2nd round pick to Cleveland [Cleveland-Memphis, 7/25/2012]

2014 second round draft pick from Orlando
Orlando's 2014 2nd round pick to Cleveland [Cleveland-Orlando, 6/23/2011]

2015 first round draft pick from Memphis
Memphis' 1st round pick to Cleveland protected for selections 1-5 and 15-30 in 2015, 1-5 and 15-30 in 2016, 1-5 in 2017 or 1-5 in 2018 or unprotected in 2019 [Cleveland-Memphis, 1/22/2013]

2015 first round draft pick from Miami
Miami's 1st round pick to Cleveland protected for selections 1-10 in 2015 or 1-10 in 2016 or unprotected in 2017 [Cleveland-Miami, 7/9/2010]

We can't touch that!

Kilo wrote:I don't think the Pistons want a second rookie, given the have five sophomores still on a steep learning curve and a new coach/system that all will have to learn, meaning less time to baby rookies to get them up to speed.

Also if we traded for the #13 and took on Marion, it would basically be undoing the Gordon trade, and boil it down to us trading the protected future first for the #13 this year. The future first is top eight protected next season and then only top one protected from there on out.

Thats very true trading for Marion+ 13 is essentialy trading the 9th pick in 14 for 13th in 2013. Do you realy believe this draft is so much better than 2014 to justify trading down 4 spots? I dont.

Kilo wrote:I don't think the Pistons want a second rookie, given the have five sophomores still on a steep learning curve and a new coach/system that all will have to learn, meaning less time to baby rookies to get them up to speed.

Good point about too many rooks/sophomores, 7 or 8 rooks/sophs would be tough to roll with in practice. But wouldn't it also be short sighted to spend the many on a vet rather than getting another rookie prospect?

Kilo wrote:Also if we traded for the #13 and took on Marion, it would basically be undoing the Gordon trade, and boil it down to us trading the protected future first for the #13 this year. The future first is top eight protected next season and then only top one protected from there on out.

Warspite wrote: Thats very true trading for Marion+ 13 is essentialy trading the 9th pick in 14 for 13th in 2013. Do you realy believe this draft is so much better than 2014 to justify trading down 4 spots? I dont.

Kilo, don't you think the Gordon deal was clearly a bad move for us in retrospect? We were hoping the cap space provided by trading Gordon would be really useful--turns out it's not, and I think it's pretty obvious that we'd be better of holding that pick now and having to pay for one more year of Gordon. This is a chance to get a partial mulligan on it. By using that space to get 13 this year, we're at least assured we get a solid asset for it--instead of just overpaying JJ Hickson for a year.
And warspite, you're missing the point. We can't undo the Gordon trade at this point. we're left with the cap space it provided. There's no sense comparing the traded pick's value (possibly 9th-10th in a strong draft) to what we could get with the cap space it allowed (13th in a weak draft).

I haven't seen us mentioned anywhere as a team interested in the Dallas Marion package.

I really want Joe to take the longview and cherry pick teams like Dallas or Houston for assets. I don't think that's where his head is. I expect we make plays for two FAs in the Jennings, Smith, Igoudala tier.

Piston Prince wrote:I haven't seen us mentioned anywhere as a team interested in the Dallas Marion package.

I really want Joe to take the longview and cherry pick teams like Dallas or Houston for assets. I don't think that's where his head is. I expect we make plays for two FAs in the Jennings, Smith, Igoudala tier.

I saw an article where Joe said the calls had begun... and there was a sentence in there about fleecing teams with tax issues.

Methinks we are looking for "love" in all the wrong places though. Marion and #13 is an "option" that has been mentioned everywhere....

but has anyone taken a look at the teams that are over the tax threshold and seen what might be available?

I'll throw out some names... and this is just after a glance at a few tax paying teams:

Boston - Jordan Crawford... Brandon Bass... Courtney Lee (as mentioned in a thread)

Brooklyn - MarShon Brooks....Kris Humphries... or the Russian forward they signed for $3+ mil

Chicago - Kirk Hinrich... Richard Hamilton...

Denver - Andre Miller....Anthony Randolph....

GSW - Jefferson... Biedrins

Lakers - Jordan Hill...Steve Blake (are these guys worth $15 mil to the Lakers?)

Teams with payroll issues might not want to dump a quality player making $5 million per season... they might want to dump the dud that is making $3 mil though.... or dump a guy that they don't want around anymore because they have someone else to fill his spot

Joe should be making and taking a lot of phone calls... and the goal should be to acquire future first round picks and/or young talent in exchange for taking back a dud!

Ballboar wrote:Cleveland have too many draft picks. This year 31st 33rd plus all this:
2013 first round draft pick from L.A. Lakers
L.A. Lakers' 2013 1st round pick to Cleveland [Cleveland-L.A. Lakers, 3/15/2012]

2013 second round draft pick from Orlando
Orlando's 2013 2nd round pick to Cleveland [Cleveland-Orlando, 6/23/2011]

2014 first round draft pick from Sacramento
Sacramento's 1st round pick to Cleveland protected for selections 1-12 in 2014, 1-10 in 2015, 1-10 in 2016 or 1-10 in 2017; if Sacramento has not conveyed a 1st round pick to Cleveland by 2017, then Sacramento's 2017 2nd round pick to Cleveland protected for selections 56-60 (if this pick falls within its protected range and is therefore not conveyed, then Sacramento's obligation to Cleveland will be extinguished) [Cleveland-Sacramento, 6/30/2011]

2014 second round draft pick from Memphis
Memphis' 2014 2nd round pick to Cleveland [Cleveland-Memphis, 7/25/2012]

2014 second round draft pick from Orlando
Orlando's 2014 2nd round pick to Cleveland [Cleveland-Orlando, 6/23/2011]

2015 first round draft pick from Memphis
Memphis' 1st round pick to Cleveland protected for selections 1-5 and 15-30 in 2015, 1-5 and 15-30 in 2016, 1-5 in 2017 or 1-5 in 2018 or unprotected in 2019 [Cleveland-Memphis, 1/22/2013]

2015 first round draft pick from Miami
Miami's 1st round pick to Cleveland protected for selections 1-10 in 2015 or 1-10 in 2016 or unprotected in 2017 [Cleveland-Miami, 7/9/2010]

We can't touch that!

A lot of this has to do with making fill in to deals (Casspri/Hickson deal) and the LBJ sign and trade. Pistons don't operating by trading. Joe D. signs guys but rarely trades our picks till their useless so we don't get that value.

HotelVitale wrote:

Kilo wrote:I don't think the Pistons want a second rookie, given the have five sophomores still on a steep learning curve and a new coach/system that all will have to learn, meaning less time to baby rookies to get them up to speed.

Good point about too many rooks/sophomores, 7 or 8 rooks/sophs would be tough to roll with in practice. But wouldn't it also be short sighted to spend the many on a vet rather than getting another rookie prospect?

Kilo wrote:Also if we traded for the #13 and took on Marion, it would basically be undoing the Gordon trade, and boil it down to us trading the protected future first for the #13 this year. The future first is top eight protected next season and then only top one protected from there on out.

Warspite wrote: Thats very true trading for Marion+ 13 is essentialy trading the 9th pick in 14 for 13th in 2013. Do you realy believe this draft is so much better than 2014 to justify trading down 4 spots? I dont.

Kilo, don't you think the Gordon deal was clearly a bad move for us in retrospect? We were hoping the cap space provided by trading Gordon would be really useful--turns out it's not, and I think it's pretty obvious that we'd be better of holding that pick now and having to pay for one more year of Gordon. This is a chance to get a partial mulligan on it. By using that space to get 13 this year, we're at least assured we get a solid asset for it--instead of just overpaying JJ Hickson for a year.
And warspite, you're missing the point. We can't undo the Gordon trade at this point. we're left with the cap space it provided. There's no sense comparing the traded pick's value (possibly 9th-10th in a strong draft) to what we could get with the cap space it allowed (13th in a weak draft).

The Ben Gordon deal was terrible in retrospect. Villanueva or Gordon should have been amnestied and not trade Gordon. This FA class is super weak so Joe could easily replace Maggette with an equally bad Gordon type signing (OJ Mayo/JJ Hickson). This is just more proof why Joe doesn't get it.