All-time All Star Team

[jars]

As a long time lurker, not so often poster I thought i would ask you guys a question...

After reading about Kobe naming his 'All time All-star team' which was Magic, Jordan, Bird, Russell and Abdul-Jabbar I got thinking about who/what makes the best team of all time and whether Kobe is right. Who would you have as the starting 5 in your team and why? Remember, the fit of the players count.

My team would have to be elite defensively because I want championships. They would need floor spacing to ensure everyone could attack the basket when need be and also kick out for the threes when the lane is clogged up.

C - Hakeem Olajuwon
Why: Hakeem was an elite defensive center (1st all time Block, 8th all time steals). Offensive force on the block who had career percentages of 51% FG and 71% FT and who can forget the dream shake? There is a reason every big man wants to work with Hakeem.
Also considered: Bill Russell (worried about offensive productiveness and floor spacing), Kareem Abdul-Jabbar (worried a little bit about defense as Hakeem was quicker and stronger IMO, Hakeem probably works better for run and gun as well.) and Wilt Chamberlain (The dude averaged 50 points per game for a whole season!)

PF - Kevin Garnett
Why: That Gritty, Dirty Defense that KG is known for is very appealing but not why I have him in the team over so more historic big men. KG provides solid defense WITH versatility on offense. The guy could take you down into the post, hit a pull up/spot up mid range jumper and was a reasonable 3pt shooter. A true leader, particularly on defense and I dont think he would mind being a 3rd or 4th option on offense considering what he did in Boston.
Also Considered: Tim Duncan (not as versatile), Karl Malone (Not good enough defensively), Charles Barkley (Not good enough defensively and not a great fit) and Dirk Nowitzki (Purely as a 3 pt shooter, not good enough on defense)

SF - LeBron James
Why: I hate that I put LeBron in here because i really wanted Larry Bird to be my guy but LeBron's physical ability is too much to pass up. Like KG, Lebron is incredibly versatile with his ability to guard all 5 positions. He is a defensive stopper and I find that watching him, his player tends to pass the ball rather than take the shot. His field goal percentages (51.7%FG and 39.5% 3pt) have improved this past season which is why I could put him in the team. If he was still an awful shooter then I would have put Larry Bird as the SF.
Also considered: Larry Bird (prefer LeBrons athleticism but Birds trash talk would have been great), Julius Erving and Scottie Pippen(prefer it if both guys were better outside shooters)

SG - Michael Jordan
Why: Goat
Also considered: Kobe Bryant, Reggie Miller and Ray Allen.

PG - John Stockton
Why: A tough, hard, dirty defensive player. One of the best passers ever. What put him above the others was his shooting. The others below just weren't great shooters who could space the floor for the other players. Probably the hardest decision of all TBH.
Also considered: Magic Johnson, Oscar Robertson, Walt Frazier among others.

Let the hate and head shaking begin.

[ComboGuardCity]

Magic
MJ
Pippen
Duncan
Shaq

No other group could best these 5 in a game imo.

[Phenomenonsense]

Magic
MJ
Pippen
Duncan
Shaq

No other group could best these 5 in a game imo.

Y u sleepin on Bird?

[MrBigShot]

First of all, props on Hakeem. That guy doesn't get enough respect around here when people mention the top centers of all time. Is he the best? Not sure, but If I have a choice of any center I'm taking the Dream. Anyway:

Magic
MJ
Bird
LeBron
Hakeem

[Hotmayo]

Hakeem
Duncan
Lebron
Jordan
Magic

[ComboGuardCity]

Magic
MJ
Pippen
Duncan
Shaq

No other group could best these 5 in a game imo.

Y u sleepin on Bird?

Defense

[joseph mamah]

Hakeem
Bird
Magic
Jordan
West

[Snakebites]

Are we simply saying who we think the best players at each position or are we actually trying to put together a "team" that fits well together?

[oldncreaky]

Nice thread. My five, in order

SG: All agree on Jordan (at least so far!). Best offensive and defensive player at his position. Despite what he did to my Pistons, I have to concede GOAT to him.

PG: Magic. Stockton ain't close - his peak wasn't high enough. Even counting longevity, I would take Oscar or Zeke before Stockton, and Magic is another level. Criticism of Magic's shot only applied to his first few years, when he was too busy dunking on people. Magic could play and dominate at multiple positions on both ends of the court, and for the better part of a decade he was consistently one of the 2 or 3 best players in the world.

PF: Gotta have Russell. If fit counts, I want players who can have great impact without dominating the ball; for over a decade Russell absolutely dominated on the defensive half, dominated the boards, and triggered the best fast break in the league with outlet passes. If fit doesn't count, you have to include Russell because he is in the discussion for greatest of all time based on leading his team to 11 championships in 13 years (or 13 in 15 if you count NCAA). Russell lost in 1 semi-finals and one finals in his career! KG is really great, but a level or two below Russell.

C: Wilt. Hakeem is tempting if you are only counting the top 2 or 3 years, but Wilt's numbers and court presence was out of this world. A healthy Wilt was unbelievably athletic and skilled, and could literally choose ANY statistical category he wanted to dominate in: points, rebounds, assists - and blocks or steals if they had tracked those.

SF: LeBron. Toughest choice, but at the rate LeBron keeps improving, in a few years this will be a no-brainer because an injury-free Lebron will put himself in the GOAT discussion. If I go by best few years, I'll take Bird 1983-1986 (man, he used to kill the Pistons and everyone else) but LeBron's last couple of years have really impressed me.

[Timmaytime]

Im gonna be a little bit weird with this one but im actually trying to comprise a team here,

PG Magic: obviously

SG Gary Payton: (I realize he played Point) best one on one defender of all time arguably.

SF Larry Bird: Elite scoring ability

PF Dennis Rodman, defense, rebounding and toughness

C The Dream: see Rodman, Dennis.

[Rodya]

Are we simply saying who we think the best players at each position or are we actually trying to put together a "team" that fits well together?

Yeah, these are two very different questions. Interpreting the question as the former (compelled to make multiple team):

First-Team
PG - John Stockton
SG - Michael Jordan
SF - LeBron James
PF - Tim Duncan
C - Hakeem Olajuwon

Second-Team
PG - Magic Johnson
SG - Oscar Robertson
SF - Larry Bird
PF - Moses Malone
C - Wilt Chamberlain

Third-Team
PG - Isiah Thomas
SG - Kobe Bryant
SF - Scottie Pippen
PF - Karl Malone
C- Shaquille O'Neal

Fourth-Team
PG - Jerry West
SG - Julius Erving
SF - Elgin Baylor
PF - Kevin Garnett
C - Bill Russel

Fifth-Team
PG - Jason Kidd
SG - Walt Frazier
SF - Dennis Rodman
PF - Charles Barkley
C - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar

So many players I feel awful leaving off the list (David Robinson, Reggie Miller, Rick Barry, Elvin Hayes, Bob Cousy, Dirk Nowitzki etc.) and there are several spots where you can freely interchange the players, especially at the C and PF positions. If I had to compile a straight list of greatest players, ignoring position, big men would probably make up 3/5 of the list. Additionally, it is difficult to pigeon-hole some of the players into a single position, specifically Rodman, West, Big O, and Russel. Best overall starting-five, rather the five players who have the potential to be the best team:

PG - LeBron
SG - Jordan
SF - Bird
PF - Duncan
C - Russel

[DocRI]

After reading about Kobe naming his 'All time All-star team' which was Magic, Jordan, Bird, Russell and Abdul-Jabbar ...

^This. Done. /Thread.

You can say a lot about Kobe, but his knowledge of and respect for the game and its history are fairly unquestionable. Plus, c'mon! Stop being cute and actually look at the team he put together! Kobe answered this question before it was even posed!

I will concede that there's an argument to be made for Wilt over Kareem, but the other four are pretty much untouchable. And by the way, anyone who posts that they want "defense," "toughness," "grit," or "winning" and doesn't include Bill Russell is simply showing a lack of knowledge regarding the older generations of players, because NO ONE in the history of team sports (not just basketball) embodied those qualities like Russell.

[retrolenny]

PG-Magic
SG-Jordan
SF- Bird
PF-Bron
C-Abdul Jabbar

[retrolenny]

I Bron could really be SG, SF, or PF. No matter where he plays he dominates...

[Phenomenonsense]

Give m Bron/Duncan at PF and Shaq at C forever, if only to make room for Bird.

[DocRI]

Give m Bron/Duncan at PF and Shaq at C forever, if only to make room for Bird.

I'm sorry, but Shaq is the fourth best center ... in LAKER'S team history. Overall, Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, and George Mikan all deserve to be ranked ahead of Shaq. If you judge by defense, rebounding or winning, Russell easily tops Shaq. If you judge by offensive skill, both Kareem and Hakeem easily top Shaq. And if you judge by pure physical dominance over players of the same era, both Wilt and Mikan easily top Shaq (hell, Mikan was the reason they invented the 24 second shot clock!). Don't get me wrong, Shaq is a first ballot Hall of Famer and by far the best center of his era ... but when compared objectively to the dominant big men of the past, he simply does not measure up (no pun intended).

[Spider156]

Give m Bron/Duncan at PF and Shaq at C forever, if only to make room for Bird.

I'm sorry, but Shaq is the fourth best center ... in LAKER'S team history. Overall, Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, and George Mikan all deserve to be ranked ahead of Shaq. If you judge by defense, rebounding or winning, Russell easily tops Shaq. If you judge by offensive skill, both Kareem and Hakeem easily top Shaq. And if you judge by pure physical dominance over players of the same era, both Wilt and Mikan easily top Shaq (hell, Mikan was the reason they invented the 24 second shot clock!). Don't get me wrong, Shaq is a first ballot Hall of Famer and by far the best center of his era ... but when compared objectively to the dominant big men of the past, he simply does not measure up (no pun intended).

I think Shaq is better than you're saying he is. I'm sure he's right there next to Hakeem. Remember, he's won 4 championships. 3 of them, he was Finals MVP.

[DocRI]

Give m Bron/Duncan at PF and Shaq at C forever, if only to make room for Bird.

I'm sorry, but Shaq is the fourth best center ... in LAKER'S team history. Overall, Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, and George Mikan all deserve to be ranked ahead of Shaq. If you judge by defense, rebounding or winning, Russell easily tops Shaq. If you judge by offensive skill, both Kareem and Hakeem easily top Shaq. And if you judge by pure physical dominance over players of the same era, both Wilt and Mikan easily top Shaq (hell, Mikan was the reason they invented the 24 second shot clock!). Don't get me wrong, Shaq is a first ballot Hall of Famer and by far the best center of his era ... but when compared objectively to the dominant big men of the past, he simply does not measure up (no pun intended).

I think Shaq is better than you're saying he is. I'm sure he's right there next to Hakeem. Remember, he's won 4 championships. 3 of them, he was Finals MVP.

I'll concede that there's a debate between Shaq, Hakeem and Mikan (which is especially difficult to gauge because Mikan played in such a different era). And I honestly didn't mean to come down on Shaq too harshly; like I wrote, he's an undeniable all-time great himself. But over Russell, Wilt or Kareem? Sorry, but that's a bridge too far for me.

By the way, this isn't just about what Phenom wrote, or about this thread in particular. Remember the "all time greatest PG" discussion which Skip Bayless's stupid comment about Isiah spawned? There were people who argued for Jason Kidd and Gary Payton (again, sure-fire Hall of Famers themselves) over Bob Cousy and Oscar Robertson. It just genuinely bothers me when people overrate (or only mention) players of the last 25 years in "all time greatest" discussions, and it seems to happen in hoops more than any other sport. I've never seen a "greatest hitter in baseball" debate which didn't mention Ruth, Mays, Williams, Aaron, etc., so I just don't get why it seems like so many basketball fans think the history of the sport began with Bird and Magic in 1979.

Okay, rant over. Thanks for letting me get that off my chest, now I can skip my shrink appointment this week!

[ComboGuardCity]

Prime shaq was the most dominant center of all time.

[pistontr]

Abdul-Jabbar (defense and scoring)
Dirk (clearly Duncan is the best but 3 point shooting is needed)
Lebron (defense and scoring, play making ability)
Jordan (defense and scoring)
Billups (for his 3 point shooting)