Billups doesn't like Joe's drafting.

[ImHeisenberg]

http://sulia.com/channel/miami-heat/f/5 ... ddd76c8a7/?

Basically, Billups recanting his time with Detroit, and states that they would have won more than one title if Dumars didn't draft Busto Milicic.

Fun news tidbit is all it is, but has more weight being that we're a few days away from an important draft that may restructure the team.

[princeofpalace]

Yeah, its common sense that Darko was a bust. Lets move on

[ComboGuardCity]

Most scouts were wrong too

[Kilo]

Darko was pretty much the consensus #2 pick. I just think he should have been traded sooner - ie year two, we could have got Al Harrington IIRC.

[ImHeisenberg]

I agree, it's nothing more than common knowledge. Just thought I'd share and post something that isn't about Andre Igoudala.

[DBC10]

Wasn't it a consensus among scouts and GMs that Darko had to go #2? Hindsight is 20/20 etc.

[Snakebites]

I just read the ESPN retrospective on the 2003 draft, couple of things with respect to Darko stand out:

1) Kiki Vanderweigh of the Nuggets KNEW we were taking Darko for sure and still tried to trade up to get the pick. He had Darko on his list ahead of Melo, too.
2) Jerry West of the Grizzlies was puzzled as to why Darko was ranked so high, and said "we did our research and never would have picked him second". So sure, there were GM's who weren't buying into the Darko hype, and others besides Dumars who were. We'll never know the extent.
3) All indicators are that we were just never all that into Melo and liked Tayshaun at the 3.
4) Wade was not considered a top 4 pick by basically anyone. Wade himself said he thought he was going to Chicago at 7th, and he felt that the draft basically started at 5 because the top 4 picks were logged in. Billups doesn't mention Wade in his comments, but I figured this was worth bringing up.
5) We loved Chris Bosh.

All of these things taken as a whole suggest that even if we hadn't picked Darko we STILL would have gone big.

So sure, maybe we'd have picked Bosh. But with Bosh we have no way of knowing whether we'd have felt the need to trade for Rasheed Wallace. Not only is it not guaranteed that we'd have won MORE championships without Darko, but we have no assurances that we'd have won ANY. You can't merely assume that we'd have picked Bosh/Melo and everything else would have gone exactly as it did.

I'm not defending the pick or saying it wasn't a dismal mistake. Clearly and demonstrably it was. And heck, maybe he should have taken a harder look at Melo. I'm just saying the assertion that we'd have won more rings doesn't have any legs. That pick (Bosh/Melo) doesn't guarantee a championship nor does it even assure us the one we already won. This team was not a championship caliber team prior to that trade.

Heck, given the movement we've seen from the players in question, I'm not even seeing convincing evidence that making a different pick improves the situation we find ourselves in now, nevermind championship speculations.

[Warspite]

Well yeah we could have drafted Bosh, not traded for Sheed but do you realy think we would have drafted Josh Smith and West with the 2 picks we gave up? Maybe West/Smith/Bosh would have been able to get us titles after 04 but we wouldnt have won in 04.

I would have liked to have seen

Billups/West
Rip/Afflalo
Prince/Delfino
Bosh/Smith
Ben/Lee

[Piston Pete]

Didn't Darko have to fight to get into the draft -- re; age issues.

NBA could have saved us simply by not allowing him into that season's draft. Once again, Stern proves to be a thorn in our side.

[mercury]

Didn't Darko have to fight to get into the draft -- re; age issues.

NBA could have saved us simply by not allowing him into that season's draft. Once again, Stern proves to be a thorn in our side.

International players had to be one year older to enter the draft... yes the league changed the rule that year... it would have saved Joe from himself.

[erwincdw]

I think it was Darko's fault, not Dumars's.

Darko wastes his greate talent and opportunity ,he is lazy, no passion for BasketBall. Look at what he had done in Olando, Memphis, Minnesota, it's his own fault .

[MrBigShot]

^The GM has to take responsibility for projecting the player. That is why character, drive and work ethic are a huge part of the draft process. I am 110% confident that If I was in that same position I would not have taken Darko. If we took Wade, I''m confident we would have one more than 1 ring...

He was the consensus #2, but still a bad pick characterized by a lack of research. Fortunately we do a lot more of that now if what Joe D says is true. All in all I think you just have to move past it and accept that what's done is done. Focus on drafting better players now. At least we won a championship. Very difficult to do without a real superstar.

[Cowology]

I got no real beef with the pick. I'll stand by the notion that if you have the chance to draft a potentially dominant bigman, you do it. Wings are a dime a dozen, so unless there is a significant difference in terms of ceiling you go big. It was high risk/high reward and I'm OK with that. Unfortunately it didn't work out and in retrospect I think we learned to be a lot more diligent in our personality/talent evaluations.

Had we not taken Darko I assume Bosh would have been the pick and it's complete speculation as to whether that would have pre-empted a Sheed trade. It certainly may have. *shrug* Regardless, the pick was a failure and will haunt Dumars the rest of his career.

To Low Ki's point I'm still a lil conflicted on the "trade him sooner" argument. When a guys value tanks like that and you can't get a lot back I generally feel it's better to just keep him and hope he pans out. Harrington was sorta right on the border of being worth it to me. In retrospect he's correct though, shoulda done it. Oh well.

[Minas]

Windhorst wrote a great piece on the 2003 Draft today. I don't think that Joe can be blamed for picking Darko, here are a few quotes:

Ford: Darko was just phenomenal. It couldn't have been more perfect in a certain way. At some point the coaches got involved and asked to see particular things. And Darko couldn't miss and was aggressive and rose to the moment with the players watching. I was sitting next to (Dumars). He's not expressive, he plays everything close to the vest. But Darko was just so impressive. It was literally the best workout I've ever seen. I've seen hundreds and it was the best. When you have a 7-1 kid, who is 17 years old, doing the things he was doing, it was a "wow" moment, especially for a team that needed a big man. There was just a buzz afterward.

Tony Ronzone (Pistons executive, 2001-10): Our guys were like, "Oh my God, look at this guy." One dribble from the foul line, dunk. Lefty hook. Quick feet. He had great lateral quickness for a big. He had spin moves. It was unbelievable. He was a freak athlete at 17. He runs like a deer. He jumps. You were saying "wow." You could check off everything on the list.

Jon Barry (Pistons guard, 2001-03): I remember Joe Dumars saying we're working him out. I think half a dozen of us went over to watch. Dumars, he was telling me this guy is going to be the deal. Said "he's better than Dirk. He's going to be an absolute stud." So I said, I'm going to go check him out.

Cornstein: The Pistons walked away impressed but depressed. They thought when everyone else eventually saw him there would be no way they'd be able to draft Darko.

Link to full piece (definitely recommend reading it): http://espn.go.com/nba/draft2013/story/ ... tery-draft

[Redeemed]

http://sulia.com/channel/miami-heat/f/58b6e97f-a2eb-4439-bad1-c58ddd76c8a7/?

Basically, Billups recanting his time with Detroit, and states that they would have won more than one title if Dumars didn't draft Busto Milicic.

Fun news tidbit is all it is, but has more weight being that we're a few days away from an important draft that may restructure the team.

Darko was a bust, but the Goin' to Work team was more than capable of winning multiple titles as they were built. That team got smug and entitled. Their failure to repeat or return and win again wasn't as a result of a Dumars due diligence blunder (drafting Darko), it was their sacred cow attitude that was evident in their diminishing returns.

Lost to San Antonio in a Finals series they should have won
Lost to Miami in an Eastern Conference Finals series they should have won
Lost to Cleveland in an Eastern Conference Finals series they should have won
blah blah blah

I'm really surprised to read Mr. Big Shot suggesting they needed a superstar or star to come in and save the day for them. Those days are done and over. Billups and company had missed opportunities because they squandered them.

Yes, management could have drafted better. Thanks for the hindsight analysis. But that team should have played better let's start owning that too.

[ElectricMayhem]

I honestly really wanted Wade. After watching him at Marquette I knew he was going to be special. I'm not saying I'm a master prognosticator as I've screwed up many before, but the Pistons franchise would have been served greatly if I'd been GM just for those precious few moments

[Pharaoh]

I agree it's on our players that we didn't win another ring...

they had their chances and just didn't get it done.

The drama I have with Joe's drafting isn't Darko... it's the fact that he has never really hit a home run with any pick (outside of Drummond and Monroe) since then:

From 2003:

2003 = Darko, Delfino, some Greek dude that was very late in the 2nd round so doesn't really count
2004 = Rickey Paulding... late second rounder so again doesn't really count
2005 = Maxiell and Amir.. 2 capable role players
2006 = Will Blalock - very late second rounder that doesn't really count
2007 = Stuckey, Afflalo, Meija... we traded the best player of the 3 for a little more cap space to sign Chris Wilcox
2008 = D.J White, Deron Washington... duds
2009 = Daye, Summers, Jerebko...2 duds and a role player

Looking at that history the phrase "even a blind squirrel can find a nut" enters my mind...

2010 = Monroe - finally Joe makes a good pick! Or did God take pity on Joe?

2011 = Knight, Singler, Macklin... likely to result in 2 role players

2012 = Drummond, Middleton, English... given our history one should assume God once again threw Joe a bone with Drummond and the other 2 guys will be role players at best!

That's almost a decade of drafting right there... and the only 2 picks that were outstanding where Drummond and Monroe!

Who here is confident Joe and his scouts can hit a home run in 2013?

[Piston Pete]

2008 killed me. Why we didn't just take DeAndre Jordan absolutely killed me. I think I drove a few in here nuts that draft night. I was screaming to take Jordan all night long, and we kept passing him over. Ugh!

[Pharaoh]

Let's not dwell on 2003 though...

2004 we had a very late 2nd rounder - so let's cut Joe some slack and skip that year too

2005 we took Maxiell and Amir..

Dudes available when Maxiell was picked: David Lee, Ersan Ilyasova, Brandon Bass, Monta Ellis, Roko Ukic, Louis Williams, Andray Blatche, Ryan Gomes, Marcin Gortat (who was picked after Amir!)

Now not a lot of those guys are clearly better than Maxiell but one could make the arguement that Lee, Ilyasova, Ellis, Gortat and possibly even Ukic would have been better for us than Maxiell, who was a career back up from the start.

(I can't recall if Ukic even played in the NBA... but if we drafted him would he? We had Darko and Delfino already on board, possibily Okur if we never acquired Sheed. The Eastern Spurs?)

2006 we picked last... so give Joe a free pass again

2007 was the Stuckey and Afflalo (Meija was #57 so... free pass). Forget for a minute that we ended up dumping Afflalo despite already having $18 mil in cap space (which wasn't quite enough for CV, BG and Chris Wilcox!) and just look at the potential players...

If you actually look at it Stuckey is the BPA (other than Afflalo!)....

Stuckey at 15, Wilson Chandler at 23, Afflalo at 27, Splitter at 28... 15 through 30 is very poor.

second round ain't much better: Carl Kandry, Glen Davis, Marc Gasol, Ramon Sessions....

so in all fairness to Joe he did pretty well in 2007

2008: #29...D.J White (#59 was Deron Washington, free pass for Joe on that one)

Available players at #29 you may have heard of: Pekovic, Chalmers, DeAndre Jordan, Mbah a Moute, Chris Douglas-Roberts, Dragic

2009: Instead of Daye we could have had: Holiday, Lawson, Jeff Teague, Maynor, Collison, Mullens, Taj Gibson

Instead of Summers and/or Jerebko we could have had DaJuan Blair, Jodie Meeks, Patrck Beverley, Danny Green, Chase Budinger...can't blame Joe too much for missing/passing on those in the 2nd round...we picked Budinger but traded him.

2010: Monroe! Who else was there? Paul George is about it!

Our second round pick? #36.. Terrico White... could have drafted: Landry Fields or Lance Stephenson...

2011 = Knight at #8.... could of had: Kemba, Klay Thompson, Leonard, Vucevic, Shumpert, Tobias Harris, Faried, Marshon Brooks, Jimmy Butler

Took Singler at 33... could have had Chandler Parsons, Isaiah Thomas... or both since we could have drafted Parsons instead of Singler and Thomas instead of Macklin, though to be fair Joe gets a pass on Macklin

2012: Drummond! No one else comes close!

Middleton was drafted at 39...Kim English at 44....at this stage Joe picked the best 2 available unless you have a thing for Doron Lamb?

Assuming you give Joe and his suits a free pass on every single second round pick how do you rate his performance since 2003/2004?

[sfballa13]

Maybe if Billups didn't play like a whiny entitled pusssy then the Pistons would have won more championships.

Chauncey should shut his mouth flat out.

After the MVP performance he had nothing but late game blunders and missed shots. For god sakes he got blocked in Game 7 taking a deep 3 against the Spurs...please.

It was the attitude of Billups and Rip after they won the championship that brought our team down a notch or two.

While I would have much rather see Rip get traded, I still didnt mind the Chauncey trade, he had outgrown his welcome in Detroit with his sub par play, his piss poor attitude, and his habit of jacking up 3's with a full shot clock.