RealGM

Posted: **Mon Aug 5, 2013 3:13 pm**

I have been reading a lot about Smith playing SF, and the overwhelming majority of it is discussing his defense at the SF position. Can he do it? Is he fast enough? Foul Trouble?

What I don't see a lot of, is a discussion of him on offense. The only thing brought up, is spacing. Not really anything specific. Just that him at the SF position, will create spacing problems on offense for the Detroit Pistons.
Why is no one talking about the fact that he creates nightmares for other teams because of his size at that position? When Detroit has Drummond, Monroe, and Smith on the floor, that is three legit bigs, that REQUIRE certain athletes to guard them. Most teams, just cannot do that. It opens up a whole new realm of possibilities for Smith, and the Pistons on offense, just because of his sheer size.

A lot of people have also forgotten how good of a passer Smith is for his size, so he will find the open man. Combine that with Monroe and his excellent passing ability, you have a really slick dynamic of having two legit bigmen, on the court, who are both excellent passers, and will, without question, have people guarding them who just cant. The possibilities are endless in that regard.

When happens when teams switch? They place a bigger player on Smith, and that means Drummond, or Monroe, are free to grab an offensive rebound, cut for an oop, or just maul a smaller player that switched from Smith. These are the gametime dynamics that will shine when Detroit has these massive lineups out on the floor.
Other teams may be forced to play players out of position, use players they generally don't, or get out-rebounded so heavily they have almost zero second chance points, or cannot stop the Pistons from having a ton every night.

I know there are some legit concerns about Smith playing SF, but the benefits, to me, easily outweigh those, and the several special dynamics presented from having these three players on the court, on offense, need to be discussed more, because it is going to create match-up problems from countless teams, that they just will not be able to solve. Basketball is about match-ups, and mis-matches, and Detroit creates them all over the court with this lineup.

Imagine a P&R with Jennings and Smith. That is a nightmare for opposing teams. Same can be said for Monroe, and Drummond, but with the inclusion of Smith, it becomes problematic to say the least. Three legit P&R options with the guards.

I just feel this needs to be discussed more, as its one of the biggest benefits of having these three players together, and has been overlooked. The extra pass often ends up being a great shot. We could have a ton of those this season.

Posted: **Mon Aug 5, 2013 3:38 pm**

I agree. Like I said before, Josh Smith is no Ray Allen on offense but he isn't Ben Wallace on offense either. He's a decent enough shooter to still draw a defender out of the paint. More so than not, team's will have to adjust to us.

Posted: **Mon Aug 5, 2013 3:47 pm**

Last season, using advanced stats Josh Smith is the best defensive SF in the NBA. The thing is he played there on average less than 8 minutes per game on average so it is a small sample size.

But while playing SF he held opposing SF's to a PER of 8.9 which is absurdly low.

With the top 5 teams in the East having Lebron, George, Deng, Melo, and Pierce at the SF spot Josh Smith's defense is going to be more important to us than his offense if we're going to upset anyone. He is a good defender at PF but a great defender at SF.

Posted: **Mon Aug 5, 2013 4:14 pm**

I agree on the pick and roll. I think we are going to be a heavy pick and roll offense in the halfcourt. We have three excellent pick and roll PGs with Jennings/Chauncey/Bynum and three excellent pick and roll bigs with Dre/Moose/Smith. The combinations we can run with those six are going to be endless. That's how we are going to spread the court a lot of times I think. Anytime we need to draw a big out of the paint, just have Chauncey or Jennings call for a pick at the 3 pt line. The opposing big will have to follow out there because of the risk of us taking out Chauncey/Jennings man on a pick, giving them an open 3 with no one there to contest.

Our passing is going to be ridiculous too. Jennings' passing skills gets overlooked because he gets labeled a chucker, but he's an awesome passer. Chauncey, Moose, Smith, and Dre are all sweet passers too. That's why I can't understand people saying we are going to have trouble on offense. I think the league is going to be in for a big surprise with our offense. We could have something like 00's Kings with all 5 starters being great passers. There's also the chance Monroe comes back and finally has that jumpshot down pat a la Webber. We just assume Moose can't shoot, but he's been working on that shot for 2 years now. Eventually its going to click for him and could be as soon as next year.

Posted: **Mon Aug 5, 2013 6:19 pm**

Thanks for mentioning this, especially the passing.

I just posted in another thread that "nobody talks about how all our best players are naturally good passers"

I guess I spoke too soon.

Posted: **Mon Aug 5, 2013 6:31 pm**

Nice posts. One more thing to add onto this: While teams are trying to stop the pick and roll and figure out a way to guard our very big men who ought now to be the best set of rebounding bigs in the game, and devestatingly effective around the rim scoring the ball - our outstanding passing team ought to have a field day feeding the ball out to our stretch the floor 3 pt shooters: KCP, Datome, Billups, and CV.

Along with the team learning to play team defense, IMO, the key to how far we go this season, is how KCP and Datome come along this season. We have very high hopes for those two guys, but they haven't proven themselves in the NBA yet. If they can get to the point where they are outstanding high percentage 3 pt shooters, we're going to be murder to play. That may or may not happen this season, but if it does, .... bejeebers!

Posted: **Tue Aug 6, 2013 5:04 pm**

I know Mo is ready for heavy zone looks, if I was playing us all I would play would be zone.

Posted: **Wed Aug 7, 2013 2:15 am**

wow. i love it. can smith post up at all? against SF's he immediately has the advantage.. but do you think we could run a few plays every now and then to get him on the low block against SF's or would that end up a little ugly?

i also hope that he realises he's playing SF now, and he therefore just spends countless hours making his jumpshot respectable. its just that smith's man is always going to be the first one to help and double team off of, but like you have said, they do have to atleast rotate and then thats when the passing and mismatches come in. Its so tough to not be excited about this team. and to think there is only going to be more coming with cv/stuckey being future assets, we could be very good.

Posted: **Wed Aug 7, 2013 4:38 am**

Clarity wrote:I know Mo is ready for heavy zone looks, if I was playing us all I would play would be zone.

And you would get MURDERED in the post and on the offensive glass. Stop buying the "spacing" line.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using RealGM Forums mobile app

Posted: **Wed Aug 7, 2013 5:30 am**

Clarity wrote:I know Mo is ready for heavy zone looks, if I was playing us all I would play would be zone.

Look into my crystal ball! I see numbers....lots and lots of numbers. 2's and 3's. The crystal ball predicts many 2-3 zones in your future, Detroit Pistons!

Posted: **Wed Aug 7, 2013 3:35 pm**

DetroitSho wrote:
Clarity wrote:I know Mo is ready for heavy zone looks, if I was playing us all I would play would be zone.

And you would get MURDERED in the post and on the offensive glass. Stop buying the "spacing" line.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using RealGM Forums mobile app

lol, bball doesnt work like this man.

dan2314 wrote:wow. i love it. can smith post up at all? against SF's he immediately has the advantage.. but do you think we could run a few plays every now and then to get him on the low block against SF's or would that end up a little ugly?

i also hope that he realises he's playing SF now, and he therefore just spends countless hours making his jumpshot respectable. its just that smith's man is always going to be the first one to help and double team off of, but like you have said, they do have to atleast rotate and then thats when the passing and mismatches come in. Its so tough to not be excited about this team. and to think there is only going to be more coming with cv/stuckey being future assets, we could be very good.

The only offense I want to see from Josh is him posting up unless its a slash. He cant throw it in the ocean from beyond 5 or 6 feet.

ImHeisenberg wrote:
Look into my crystal ball! I see numbers....lots and lots of numbers. 2's and 3's. The crystal ball predicts many 2-3 zones in your future, Detroit Pistons!

lol

Posted: **Wed Aug 7, 2013 4:11 pm**

it's going to be interesting to see this team. in a league that continues to lean towards small ball the pistons have a pretty big lineup.

i'm thinking against the heat in this circumstance, what happens when they play LeBron at the 4? you would think they would try to have smith on him as much as possible, but that leaves Monroe or Drummond to guard a perimeter player. the good news is that the pistons should have no trouble matching teams that play small ball, since smith can easily slide to the 4 spot if Drummond or Monroe are resting.

Posted: **Thu Aug 8, 2013 1:38 am**

I do wonder what some Princeton offense could so with monroe in the high post.

Posted: **Wed Aug 14, 2013 3:28 am**

I came across this article, which i found pretty interesting. Wasn't sure where to post it, but this thread seems as good as any.

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1736 ... an-it-work

For those (myself included) who are worried about our spacing with Moose, Smith and Dre on the floor, this could help ease some concerns.
i just hope Cheeks will be able to utilize the strengths of our frontcourt.

Posted: **Wed Aug 14, 2013 4:10 am**

Not sure if the causality is correct, but it feels to me that the popularity of writers such as Zach Lowe on Grantland has lead to more sites actually posting strategic articles such as the one above, complete with diagrams and/or clips.

This is a good thing.

Posted: **Sat Aug 17, 2013 12:26 pm**

Brapman wrote:Nice posts. One more thing to add onto this: While teams are trying to stop the pick and roll and figure out a way to guard our very big men who ought now to be the best set of rebounding bigs in the game, and devestatingly effective around the rim scoring the ball - our outstanding passing team ought to have a field day feeding the ball out to our stretch the floor 3 pt shooters: KCP, Datome, Billups, and CV.

Along with the team learning to play team defense, IMO, the key to how far we go this season, is how KCP and Datome come along this season. We have very high hopes for those two guys, but they haven't proven themselves in the NBA yet. If they can get to the point where they are outstanding high percentage 3 pt shooters, we're going to be murder to play. That may or may not happen this season, but if it does, .... bejeebers!

I agree with this- KCP and Datome have the biggest opportunity to shut the critics up and make the team reach its potential the quickest

Posted: **Fri Aug 23, 2013 7:19 pm**

Being a Hawk fan, I have watched Josh Smith from the time he was drafted.
Let me share with you some of the things I know about him.

He's a super athlete. He can throw it down with the best of them. He loves
to be a defensive helper and block the shot. He is pretty fast and throws
some mighty fine bullet passes. But, sometimes there is no one on the other
end of those passes. The player went one way and he guessed wrong.

He loves the three ball. He loves to take those long, just inside the circle,
two point shots. And, he hits them! Not a lot, but he still insists on trying.

He is a great shooter from the charity stripe, hitting close to 50% of his attempts
from there. He has said himself that the reason he doesn't do better from there
is a lack of concentration.

On the fast break, when he has the ball, chances are he's going to keep it. He
loves to play all five positions and all in the same game. He can run. He can
dribble. He can pass. He can dunk and block. He loves to cry to the ref when
he believes he's not gotten the call and will let his team mates go on, four against
five, while he lags behind, crying.

He walks / runs to the beat of his own drummer. He's good. He's great! You'll love
some of the things he does. He may amaze you with his ability and he may drive you
up the wall with some of the things he does and no one knows why.

Posted: **Fri Aug 23, 2013 8:29 pm**

graymule wrote:Being a Hawk fan, I have watched Josh Smith from the time he was drafted.
Let me share with you some of the things I know about him.

He's a super athlete. He can throw it down with the best of them. He loves
to be a defensive helper and block the shot. He is pretty fast and throws
some mighty fine bullet passes. But, sometimes there is no one on the other
end of those passes. The player went one way and he guessed wrong.

He loves the three ball. He loves to take those long, just inside the circle,
two point shots. And, he hits them! Not a lot, but he still insists on trying.

He is a great shooter from the charity stripe, hitting close to 50% of his attempts
from there. He has said himself that the reason he doesn't do better from there
is a lack of concentration.

On the fast break, when he has the ball, chances are he's going to keep it. He
loves to play all five positions and all in the same game. He can run. He can
dribble. He can pass. He can dunk and block. He loves to cry to the ref when
he believes he's not gotten the call and will let his team mates go on, four against
five, while he lags behind, crying.

He walks / runs to the beat of his own drummer. He's good. He's great! You'll love
some of the things he does. He may amaze you with his ability and he may drive you
up the wall with some of the things he does and no one knows why.

I think we're all fully aware of what Josh Smith is about, just hoping he matures at some point, Sheed might be the guy to reach him.

Posted: **Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:11 am**

The spacing issue is not really a large problem until the playoffs, when D tightens up, and having guys like Datome, Singler, etc at the 3 on offense is a lot more effective than Smith. The argument at that point is that we can't have our most talented players on the floor at the same time. However part of winning in the playoffs is having a good bench, having Josh in the 2nd lineup might actually prove to be a better formula for winning.

Posted: **Thu Sep 12, 2013 4:55 pm**

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/1768 ... son/page/6

The NBA has been getting smaller and faster in recent years.

The Detroit Pistons accomplished neither when they inked Josh Smith to a four-year deal worth up to $56 million this summer.

Smith, a career 28.3 percent three-point shooter, is likely headed to the perimeter with budding bigs Andre Drummond and Greg Monroe already on the roster. None of these players can stretch the defense with any sort of consistency, meaning new coach Maurice Cheeks faces a logistical nightmare trying to create a semblance of offensive spacing.

Smith spent the bulk of 2012-13 at the power forward spot, where he compiled an impressive 18.5 player efficiency rating, via 82Games.com. But when he slid out to the wing, his PER crept frighteningly close to the league average 15.0 with his 16.1 mark.

Detroit avoided complete disaster by refusing Smith's reported pleas for a max contract, via Jeff Schultz of the Atlanta Journal-Constitution, but he can't escape the bust label with this jumbled roster mess.

Smith shot 77.1 percent at the rim last season and just 32.1 percent from everywhere else. With Monroe and Drummond clogging the middle, it's an impossible task figuring out where Smith will find those point-blank chances next season.

Pistons fans should prepare for a heavy dose of inefficient long twos next season.

RealGM

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