How Much is Monroe worth?

mercury · Post #1 » by **mercury** » Sun Aug 25, 2013 8:14 pm

I'd imagine Joe has already started negotiations with Greg... it's important to know what the target is.
Only a few folks want to trade him, however if he's demanding a max deal I'm not sure Joe goes that high... it could be a situation where he walks for nothing in return.

vic · Post #2 » by **vic** » Sun Aug 25, 2013 8:21 pm

6'11 Olympic level bigs that score, rebound, and pass efficiently don't come cheap. If you trade him it better be for an Olympic level SF + PLUS an unprotected first round draft pick that will be in the lottery.

In other words:
PAY THE MAN!

mercury · Post #3 » by **mercury** » Sun Aug 25, 2013 8:29 pm

Sorry.. had to add a line... please resubmit your votes

ripper3264 · Post #4 » by **ripper3264** » Sun Aug 25, 2013 8:31 pm

vic wrote:6'11 Olympic level bigs that score, rebound, and pass efficiently don't come cheap. If you trade him it better be for an Olympic level SF + PLUS an unprotected first round draft pick that will be in the lottery.

In other words:
PAY THE MAN!

He's not quite Olympic level and probably never will be. He is a great big but "Olympic level" is wishful thinking

ComboGuardCity · Post #5 » by **ComboGuardCity** » Sun Aug 25, 2013 9:59 pm

In today's nba he is worth the max. His max is at around 15 mill.

MrBigShot · Post #6 » by **MrBigShot** » Sun Aug 25, 2013 10:06 pm

I don't believe he is a max-impact player. Does market dictate value? Yes, but I don't care. If we sign him to the max without him making notable improvements, he will becoming one of those "good players, bad contract" guys. Jennings at 12 mil per sounds awful. At 8 mil and 3 years, suddenly he's a bargain. Rudy Gay is not a bad player at all. Decent scorer, athletic and rebounds well enough and is a proven closer. But...at 17 mil per he is an AWFUL contract. (Just an example, I know Moose's max is less) I don't want Moose to become one of those guys.

Realistically he is worth 11-13 imo as is. He can score in the paint, pass at an elite level and rebound but there are some notable flaws in his game. The mid range jumper...not very good at this point. Man to man defense is lacking, not very athletic. If he becomes an average man defender and can shoot closer 40% from mid range then we're talking.

We may end up just having to max him anyway. At that point you decide whether to shop him or keep him. I would 100% support keeping him if he improves his man defense and improves his jumper.

gusman · Post #7 » by **gusman** » Sun Aug 25, 2013 10:14 pm

Nothing.

princeofpalace · Post #8 » by **princeofpalace** » Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:18 pm

Larry Sander is making 11 per for the next 4
Nikola Pekovic is making 12 for the next 5

Greg will probably get 11-13 per year for 4-5 years. he will get close to the max, if not the max- and yes he's worth it.

vic · Post #9 » by **vic** » Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:21 pm

ripper3264 wrote:
vic wrote:6'11 Olympic level bigs that score, rebound, and pass efficiently don't come cheap. If you trade him it better be for an Olympic level SF + PLUS an unprotected first round draft pick that will be in the lottery.

In other words:
PAY THE MAN!

He's not quite Olympic level and probably never will be. He is a great big but "Olympic level" is wishful thinking

I was referring to the USA basketball committe and coach inviting him to the camp. That's a level above all the other bigs 25&under in the NBA.
With that type of talent at age 23, you don't let him go and watch him improve every year on defense and offense - for another team. Thats just nonsense in my opinion. Larry Sanders just got 11 mill a year. Pek just got 12 a year. If You wouldn't trade him for either, then obviously he's worth more.

You either pay him 13 million or trade him for a player worth more than 13 million, or a player worth 10 million and a 1st round unprotected pick.

When you have value you don't trade it for less value...

ImHeisenberg · Post #10 » by **ImHeisenberg** » Sun Aug 25, 2013 11:38 pm

Didn't we do this already?

If his level of play is basically the same as last season, 10-12 million over 4 years is the max for him. If he develops a solid 17 ft jumper, and consistently gives effort on defense, he can make a strong argument for a max contract.

The_Irony · Post #11 » by **The_Irony** » Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:44 am

whats the max? 15 mill? wheres the option for 13/14?

+1AllDay · Post #12 » by **+1AllDay** » Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:01 am

ImHeisenberg wrote:Didn't we do this already?

Clarity · Post #13 » by **Clarity** » Mon Aug 26, 2013 1:57 am

For the 100th time this thread has been made, he will get the max.

Post #14 » by **dVs33** » Mon Aug 26, 2013 2:01 am

$13 mil per is about right.

He's a stud and should be kept.

Pharaoh · Post #15 » by **Pharaoh** » Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:28 am

mercury wrote:I'd imagine Joe has already started negotiations with Greg... it's important to know what the target is.
Only a few folks want to trade him, however if he's demanding a max deal I'm not sure Joe goes that high... it could be a situation where he walks for nothing in return.

How many times does it have to be stated?

He will not walk for nothing.

I find it hard to believe that you don't understand Restricted Free Agency Mercury

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mercury · Post #16 » by **mercury** » Mon Aug 26, 2013 3:59 am

I completely understand the RFA process ... he can receive a max offer and the Pistons decide not to match... or he could simply walk when he's a UFA... it's why we're talking about this now

As for this being done already I don't recall seeing a survey of his worth.

Last I heard a max contract for a 6 year or less player was 14.5 mil

sc8581 · Post #17 » by **sc8581** » Mon Aug 26, 2013 5:10 am

He might be worth a max deal to other teams that don't have a big man that can score in the paint and rebound but with our current roster I don't believe he's worth anywhere near the max to US.

That being said, I think we have to trade him because I believe we can get more value to our team by doing so. It's not about whether or not he's better or more valued to other teams as a guy like Kawhi Leonard for example, it's about what player makes US better because one of them possesses skills and talents that would allow our team to be more complete and the other does things that 2 other guys in the starting line-up already do. We need shooting and defense on the perimeter, we don't need scoring in the paint and rebounding, it's really that simple imo.

This would be a different conversation if we were talking about a guy that could potentially turn into one of the better players in the league like Drummond, I think we can all agree that Monroe has a ceiling that isn't near that level though.

tmorgan · Post #18 » by **tmorgan** » Mon Aug 26, 2013 7:54 am

sc8581 is unfortunately correct, but that's in terms of CURRENT fit. I don't believe Moose is done developing as a player yet, which is why management is still in "wait and see" mode. If he doesn't change, then yes, he's a poor fit with Drummond and Smith here for the forseeable future. Right now he's a rebounder, passer, and fairly inefficient scorer for a big. He runs the court pretty well and is an average athlete with some defensive flaws. He's not going to get more athletic, and is only a few years away from getting less athletic at his size.

All that said, he's a hard worker and a pretty smart guy, and players with less athletic talent have become above-average defenders. Plenty of bigs have developed a midrange J in their mid-20's. Those two things would make him fit just fine, as his passing ability is near elite for a big. If he becomes Pau, which is probably a realistic ceiling, then having him out there with Smith and Drummond part of the time is a GREAT fit, and having 2 of the 3 out there at nearly all times is a great boon to the team.

Of course, if he does develop that way, he'll be a max player, just as Gasol was (probably not "Gasol IS", but that's not the point). As long as it doesn't anger him (and I don't see why it would if it's explained to him in advance), I'm OK with waiting for outside offers and matching. If he doesn't develop and a max offer comes in, then you work a trade for as much value as you can get. It's a bit of a risk, but not any riskier than pre-emptively offering a max contract to a guy that might not be a max talent.

vic · Post #19 » by **vic** » Mon Aug 26, 2013 9:52 am

sc8581 wrote:He might be worth a max deal to other teams that don't have a big man that can score in the paint and rebound but with our current roster I don't believe he's worth anywhere near the max to US.

That being said, I think we have to trade him because I believe we can get more value to our team by doing so. It's not about whether or not he's better or more valued to other teams as a guy like Kawhi Leonard for example, it's about what player makes US better because one of them possesses skills and talents that would allow our team to be more complete and the other does things that 2 other guys in the starting line-up already do. We need shooting and defense on the perimeter, we don't need scoring in the paint and rebounding, it's really that simple imo.

This would be a different conversation if we were talking about a guy that could potentially turn into one of the better players in the league like Drummond, I think we can all agree that Monroe has a ceiling that isn't near that level though.

When you get rid of the 22 year old scorer and rebounder for the 27 year old scorer and rebounder that's known for taking bad jumpshots and whose game is based on athleticism and whose been in the legue since he was 19, what do you do in 4 years when the one you kept is 31, and the one you let go is 26?

Pharaoh · Post #20 » by **Pharaoh** » Mon Aug 26, 2013 12:53 pm

mercury wrote:I completely understand the RFA process ... he can receive a max offer and the Pistons decide not to match... or he could simply walk when he's a UFA... it's why we're talking about this now

As for this being done already I don't recall seeing a survey of his worth.

Last I heard a max contract for a 6 year or less player was 14.5 mil

Merc: you stated you understood RFA and then came up with TWO situations that end with us getting nothing for Monroe...WTF?

1st: IF Monroe gets a max offer AND we choose not to match wouldn't we organise a sign and trade?

IF you're assuming Monroe signs a max offer sheet elsewhere then don't you realise that it would be less than the max we could give him (we can offer an extra season & higher annual raises)...so we'd be likely to match since it would be less than the $14.5 milliin max mentioned?

Why would we not match a $11-13 mil per deal for Monroe?

2nd: In order to walk as an UFA Monroe would have to pass on ALL offers next off-season and play next season for our qualifying offer before even becoming an UFA...

At which time we still have the ability to out-bid all comers due to holding his Bird Rights...

Assuming he was just desperate to get out of Detroit we could always trade him while he's playing for that qualifying offer...the only difference is he'd have to approve it

Assuming he approved no trades and just wanted to screw us he'd have to leave significant monies on the table to walk ss a UFA

I can't see Monroe doing that...can anyone?

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How high should we Go?