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This proposal was getting lost in a thread about another trade. What do you think?

HOU gets Anderson, Hawes
trades Asik, Motiejunas, HOU 1st

NO gets Asik, Young
trades Gordon

DET gets Gordon, Turner
trades KCP, CV, Stuckey

PHI gets Motiejunas, HOU 1st, KCP, CV, Stuckey
trades Young, Turner, Hawes

id rather just see where this KCP thing takes us. Gordons a risk that we don't really need to take, there already isn't going to be enough basketballs to go around next season in our starting lineup. Gordon would just add to that, and outside of scoring he isn't really anything special in any other area of the game. add in his contract, attitude and health, and the fact that we already brought in a couple of questionable characters this off-season, and id have to pass on Gordon.

No way in hell would I give up KCP for Eric Gordon.

Gordon has historically been injured too much, and that isn't something that commonly gets better with age. He's also overpaid. He's not a max player.

This isn't even a talent comparison. Even if KCP turns out to be a bum, I'd rather pay him 1 million per year, than see EG clog the cap with a max deal.

I can't stand Eric Gordon.

Laimbeer wrote:This proposal was getting lost in a thread about another trade. What do you think?

HOU gets Anderson, Hawes
trades Asik, Motiejunas, HOU 1st

NO gets Asik, Young
trades Gordon

DET gets Gordon, Turner
trades KCP, CV, Stuckey

PHI gets Motiejunas, HOU 1st, KCP, CV, Stuckey
trades Young, Turner, Hawes

you need to get miami and boston involed and make a 6 team trade

No

I don't think Jennings/Gordon would work. Both are ball-dominant.

Value-wise? Sure, you get Eric Gordon AND Evan Turner for KCP and expirings. Can't really pass that up (and can't see it getting offered)...

...but...

Salary-wise, it's a killer. Also, Evan Turner is another wing that can't shoot, and we don't want another one of those.

I believe in KCP. I think he's Arron Afllalo deluxe (more athletic) waiting to happen. Give him some time, and don't clog our cap with Eric Gordon, as the bigs are going to get expensive later.

Agree with most of these other comments. KCP was drafted high enough that he should be considered "starter capable". Let's give him a chance.

Also, is this the best we can do with Stuckey and CV? That's a lot of cap space. Hope we can get something better (I personally am nervous about EG and his contract). Worst case, we just use the cap space ourselves next summer.

Gordons contract is going to look horrible when we have to extend monroe.
i'd rather keep the rookie deal of KCP and hope he works out. With the talent we have, we just need a 3 and d guy at SG and KCP should/could fill that role.

Umbra wrote:I can't stand Eric Gordon.

You can't stand anybody. Lol.

It's that time of year again I guess.

No, No, No...

Do the deal and Monroe is gone. You cant resign him and hes not worth the money since he would be the 5th option on the team. He also wouldnt want to stay having to play with nothing but chuckers who dont play any defnese.

How many 1st options does this team need?

We have the Bucks and Hawks #1 option from last yr and now we need to add the Pelicans and the 76ers #1 option as well?


I like Turner but he has no role here. He cant play defense and he cant shoot. Hes Stuckey 2.0

The object is to find the balance. We already have a ton of scorers and starters who play big mins. KCP fits that Korver/Kerr role realy well and plays better defense.

theBigLip wrote:Agree with most of these other comments. KCP was drafted high enough that he should be considered "starter capable". Let's give him a chance.
Also, is this the best we can do with Stuckey and CV? That's a lot of cap space. Hope we can get something better (I personally am nervous about EG and his contract). Worst case, we just use the cap space ourselves next summer.

I get that you don't think this would be a slam dunk, but big trades are usually about accepting risk for greater potential value. The assets we're giving up are relatively small, and the reward could be huge if Gordon is healthy and Turner improves. I'm not saying we should do this trade--the Gordon contract is scary--but saying that you're not fully confident about it and that our guys have value doesn't really address the trade itself. Can't get something for nothing (unless you're the Lakers).

Also, I did a long post a month or so before the draft about KCP's draft position: according to draft history, players selected around KCP's draft position are most likely to become average bench players. Expecting a 'good starter' at the 6-10th pick is not reasonable (though it certainly happens frequently). And the thing about 'giving him a chance' is that, if he doesn't show big potential in the first six months of his career, his value plummets. Right now he's a mystery and the sky's the limit, and there's a chance that this is the highest his trade value will ever be.

Warspite wrote:Do the deal and Monroe is gone. You cant resign him and hes not worth the money since he would be the 5th option on the team. He also wouldnt want to stay having to play with nothing but chuckers who dont play any defnese. .

Not sure resigning Monroe would be a problem, we'd be well over the cap but a bit short of the tax, I think. And
why would Monroe be the 5th option? Him and Gordon would be about equal at efficient possession usage, so they would be the clear cut #1 and #2 options. Drummond can't create at all, Smith shouldn't create too much, and the staff can run plays that take the ball out of BJ's hands if he's using too many possessions.

Gordon can create at all-star level when healthy. He's not a chucker, he's really good at driving and taking angles to the basket. Maybe people didn't watch him when he was on the Clips, but he's a very very good offensive player and not a bad defender. The only issue is that his health is a huge risk--that's the onloy thing we should be debating.

HotelVitale wrote:

Warspite wrote:Do the deal and Monroe is gone. You cant resign him and hes not worth the money since he would be the 5th option on the team. He also wouldnt want to stay having to play with nothing but chuckers who dont play any defnese. .

Not sure resigning Monroe would be a problem, we'd be well over the cap but a bit short of the tax, I think. And
why would Monroe be the 5th option? Him and Gordon would be about equal at efficient possession usage, so they would be the clear cut #1 and #2 options. Drummond can't create at all, Smith shouldn't create too much, and the staff can run plays that take the ball out of BJ's hands if he's using too many possessions.

Gordon can create at all-star level when healthy. He's not a chucker, he's really good at driving and taking angles to the basket. Maybe people didn't watch him when he was on the Clips, but he's a very very good offensive player and not a bad defender. The only issue is that his health is a huge risk--that's the onloy thing we should be debating.

Your taking on 16-24mil more in salary. Theres no way this team can take on 3 near max deals. Pistons would be deep into tax territory with no young role players and no escape without doing a fire sale.

What Gordon was on the Clips is ancient history in NBA terms. He most likely will never be that player again.

I just dont get why people think hes some missiing piece. He doesnt do anything for this team that makes it better. He just doesnt fit. What we need is a great def wing player who can spot up and knock it down. KCP is the ideal player for this team and he costs 14 mil less.

As a #2 overall pick, Evan Turner, is a bust. He has the potential to be a really good player, he just hasn't delivered as of yet. Eric Gordon has a poison pill contract and a history of injuries, so he's a bit of a red flag.

KCP is largely an unknown who has shown signs of great potential in his college career and summer league opportunities. He has at best warranted a wait and see what we've got approach to him.

even if Turner did turn the corner next year, he'd be a FA and we probably couldn't afford to re-sign both he and Monroe after taking on Gordons salary. Gordons contract along with Mooses extension would take us pretty close to the lux tax threshold.

Redeemed wrote:As a #2 overall pick, Evan Turner, is a bust. He has the potential to be a really good player, he just hasn't delivered as of yet. Eric Gordon has a poison pill contract and a history of injuries, so he's a bit of a red flag.

KCP is largely an unknown who has shown signs of great potential in his college career and summer league opportunities. He has at best warranted a wait and see what we've got approach to him.

THis is why I could never watch shows like Deal or No Deal. People will never take the guaranteed money because the mysterious thing in the box might have better value.

KCP is a nice prospect but at the end of the day he's still a prospect. Why would we not trade him for a clear upgrade? Especially considering how week the SG position is in the NBA. Yes, Gordon has an injury history and makes a ton of money but teams don't hand away talent, you have to take some risks. Rasheed was a huge risk and it turned out great for us. I'm not saying we do this deal but it's a good deal and definitely something that should be tempting.

HotelVitale wrote:

theBigLip wrote:Agree with most of these other comments. KCP was drafted high enough that he should be considered "starter capable". Let's give him a chance.
Also, is this the best we can do with Stuckey and CV? That's a lot of cap space. Hope we can get something better (I personally am nervous about EG and his contract). Worst case, we just use the cap space ourselves next summer.

I get that you don't think this would be a slam dunk, but big trades are usually about accepting risk for greater potential value. The assets we're giving up are relatively small, and the reward could be huge if Gordon is healthy and Turner improves. I'm not saying we should do this trade--the Gordon contract is scary--but saying that you're not fully confident about it and that our guys have value doesn't really address the trade itself. Can't get something for nothing (unless you're the Lakers).

Also, I did a long post a month or so before the draft about KCP's draft position: according to draft history, players selected around KCP's draft position are most likely to become average bench players. Expecting a 'good starter' at the 6-10th pick is not reasonable (though it certainly happens frequently). And the thing about 'giving him a chance' is that, if he doesn't show big potential in the first six months of his career, his value plummets. Right now he's a mystery and the sky's the limit, and there's a chance that this is the highest his trade value will ever be.

You make some great points, and the big one is accepting risk for potential value. And if there is a chance that Gordon could get back to 100%, then it's a no-brainer to trade expiring deals and KCP to get an All Star quality SG.

There is one other thing to consider - opportunity cost. Regardless of whether KCP can become a quality starter or not, is this the best deal we can do with Stuckey and CV's expiring deals? Maybe it is. But maybe there is a less risky deal out there that we can do. I guess I'd like to be a fly on the wall in Dumar's office and hear what kind of offers he gets for those expiring contracts.