KL's : Piston by Position

[Blkbrd671]

KL's doing a series on all the 5 positions and players on our team, kind of. He's selling tickets to the band wagon, i'm a season holder.


A couple notes i found interesting

“The week with USA Basketball was really, really good for him,” Pistons assistant general manager George David said. “The majority of those guys were young players. They’re all in the same boat. His opportunity to see that firsthand – see guys who were in better shape than others, see guys who had come on a little quicker than others, to see the difference in those guys, to see the difference in work habits – all of that was great for both him and Greg.”

i undervalued the importance of USA basketball. He brings up a great point that mentally being seen as on par with some of the good players that were invited, can do a whole lot to a players confidence, as well as seeing what happens when you don't put in the work *cough cousins.

“One of the most difficult transitions from year one to year two for any NB A player is they’re on people’s radar now,” David said. “In year two, everybody knows how you did. Everybody knows what you are capable of doing. Everybody is a little bit more prepared to try to take things away from you. That can be a difficult transition.”

Its going to be interesting to see how the league adjust and how he responds, more importantly how our coach responds

“Some of the best bigs in our game have a very simplistic skill set and when I use the word simplistic, they might have one move and one counter move and that’s it,” David said, pointing to Tim Duncan. “The ability to do simple things extremely well is very undervalued for bigs. If I had to project the next step for Andre in year two, it’s that: the ability to do some simple skill moves but to do them well. We’re not going to try to project anything beyond that, right now, at his age.”

He makes a point, but he's trying to sell tickets. Dre's going to need to learn 1 move first before i get excited. In practice is one thing , in a game its another.


http://www.nba.com/pistons/features/tru ... 30916.html


I think PF's are next

[Uncle Mxy]

Tim Duncan has one very simplistic skill set?
Huh?

[zeebneeb]

Tim Duncan has one very simplistic skill set?
Huh?

Absolutely, in direct comparison to other hall of fame bigs. The difference between Duncan, and other bigs like him, is that he has perfected what he does. He is not the dream, in terms of post moves, and he doesn't stretch the floor with the three ball either.

Tim Duncan will get the ball in the post, and he will score on you. Or get the ball to Duncan in the high post, and he will bank it in off the glass. That's why Duncan is so great. Duncan is pure, "Get me the ball. I will score" type of PF-C. Awesome, and if constructing a team, I would be hard pressed to select any other PF over him.

Shaq is another example of a great big, with limited skills. His on the other hand was raw power. He had a hook, that was really effective, but his speed combined with power was awesome.

[TwentyOne920]

Tim Duncan has one very simplistic skill set?
Huh?

Absolutely, in direct comparison to other hall of fame bigs. The difference between Duncan, and other bigs like him, is that he has perfected what he does. He is not the dream, in terms of post moves, and he doesn't stretch the floor with the three ball either.

Tim Duncan will get the ball in the post, and he will score on you. Or get the ball to Duncan in the high post, and he will bank it in off the glass. That's why Duncan is so great. Duncan is pure, "Get me the ball. I will score" type of PF-C. Awesome, and if constructing a team, I would be hard pressed to select any other PF over him.

Shaq is another example of a great big, with limited skills. His on the other hand was raw power. He had a hook, that was really effective, but his speed combined with power was awesome.

That only counts his scoring mechanics, though. He's also a very good passer for a big man (remember, he had 10 assists in Game 6 against NJ) and he's considered an all-time defensive master despite having zero DPOYs to his name.

[zeebneeb]

Tim Duncan has one very simplistic skill set?
Huh?

Absolutely, in direct comparison to other hall of fame bigs. The difference between Duncan, and other bigs like him, is that he has perfected what he does. He is not the dream, in terms of post moves, and he doesn't stretch the floor with the three ball either.

Tim Duncan will get the ball in the post, and he will score on you. Or get the ball to Duncan in the high post, and he will bank it in off the glass. That's why Duncan is so great. Duncan is pure, "Get me the ball. I will score" type of PF-C. Awesome, and if constructing a team, I would be hard pressed to select any other PF over him.

Shaq is another example of a great big, with limited skills. His on the other hand was raw power. He had a hook, that was really effective, but his speed combined with power was awesome.

That only counts his scoring mechanics, though. He's also a very good passer for a big man (remember, he had 10 assists in Game 6 against NJ) and he's considered an all-time defensive master despite having zero DPOYs to his name.

Oh of course. I was just talking about offense. On defense, Duncan is stout. Not an athletic defender, but he will always make it tough, and will never back down.

Like I said, I am not bashing Duncan in any way shape or form. He just is what he is, a absolutely fantastic basketball player, and perhaps the best PF of all time. Just not an offensive player, with a million moves in his bag. Just a few, but just a mastered few. That's what made him special. Perfection at what he does.

[BadMofoPimp]

Shaq and Duncan have high basketball IQ. Shaq had great hands and was an excellent passer out of the post. Plus, he was a decent dribbler for a 300lb man. I once saw him get a defensive rebound and take the ball all the way down the court to the hoop even doing a behind the back dribble. Just because he didn't have an outside shot doesn't take anything away from his impact on the court. Top 50 player for sure. Duncan on the other hand was a solid all around player on both sides of the court. Not much weakness there.

[Cowology]

Seems like some of you may be sorta missing the point here and drawing the wrong conclusions. I'd guess KL didn't articular this as well as he would have liked, but Duncans bank shot is the perfect example of what he is talking about; a fundamental move that Duncan has perfected. It's nothing fancy or complex, a basic move that 99% of the bigs in our league can't make but one which makes him a threat.

I am quite certain that KL did not mean to imply that Duncan had a limited arsenal or didn't contribute in other ways, just that being very good with a particular skill is an underrated commodity.

If you read carefully KL did NOT say that Duncan only had 1 limited skillset.

[DetroitPistons]

Does anyone know when training camp starts?

[aad]

Oct 1st is media day

[dVs33]

PF's article is out today.

He doesn't really mention Smith even though he'll be spending 50% of his time there.

[Blkbrd671]

Tim Duncan has one very simplistic skill set?
Huh?

Seems like some of you may be sorta missing the point here and drawing the wrong conclusions. I'd guess KL didn't articular this as well as he would have liked, but Duncans bank shot is the perfect example of what he is talking about; a fundamental move that Duncan has perfected. It's nothing fancy or complex, a basic move that 99% of the bigs in our league can't make but one which makes him a threat.

I am quite certain that KL did not mean to imply that Duncan had a limited arsenal or didn't contribute in other ways, just that being very good with a particular skill is an underrated commodity.

If you read carefully KL did NOT say that Duncan only had 1 limited skillset.

couldn't have said it any better. Every big needs a go to move, one that can't be stopped is preferable

[Blkbrd671]

“I saw him having to guard Tony Michell, a four man who’s athletic, and then at USA Basketball he had to guard four men, some of them who were really threes when they went small – Harrison Barnes, Michael Kidd-Gilchrist,” Joe Dumars said. “It could not have worked out better for us, the summer he ended up having. Greg’s a versatile, talented, smart kid. A lot of the questions of sliding to a new position, when you’re dealing with a high-IQ player, they tend to figure it out quicker than most.”

Everyone talks about his jump shot, but the most important thing is if he can effectively guard 4's and 3's.

“No question,” David said. “Greg and I talked a lot this summer about this. We talked about just the difference in his game overall with being able to knock down an open, face-up 15- to 17-foot jump shot consistently. One of the things we talked about is it’s hard to get better at five different things in one summer. It’s a lot easier to focus on one thing. What Greg has done a sensational job of this summer is zoning in on that one thing and he’s put a lot of work in both here and (Washington, where he works out at Georgetown) at summer school and back in Louisiana, putting in a lot of work at the USA Basketball practices, in Summer League when he was down in Orlando – he’s put a lot of work into that.

Its good to hear he's putting in work. it never dawn'd upon me but this is the first camp in 2 years where moose is no longer the "franchise player". He very well could be coming off the bench if he doesn't improve. which makes me optimistic

“Everybody in this building likes Tony Mitchell,” Dumars said. “They love his personality, they love his athleticism, they love the way he comes in and works, no complaints, has a great spirit about him. We have the luxury of bringing him along at whatever pace is best for him at this point. But I think Tony’s going to compete. He’s not going to back down. He’s not going to stand at the back of the line and wait. I think he’s going to try to fight his way out there and see if he can get some minutes.”

We tend to forget about Tony because most of us have seen the Terrico Whites, Rodney Whites, and other "freak athletic" players and bought the hype to only be disappointed. Having said that, Tony i think is going to help us as much as hurt us. His BBallIQ doesn't seem high, but he seems willing to learn.

[DetroitSho]

“I saw him having to guard Tony Michell, a four man who’s athletic, and then at USA Basketball he had to guard four men, some of them who were really threes when they went small – Harrison Barnes, Michael Kidd-Gilchrist,” Joe Dumars said. “It could not have worked out better for us, the summer he ended up having. Greg’s a versatile, talented, smart kid. A lot of the questions of sliding to a new position, when you’re dealing with a high-IQ player, they tend to figure it out quicker than most.”

Everyone talks about his jump shot, but the most important thing is if he can effectively guard 4's and 3's.

“No question,” David said. “Greg and I talked a lot this summer about this. We talked about just the difference in his game overall with being able to knock down an open, face-up 15- to 17-foot jump shot consistently. One of the things we talked about is it’s hard to get better at five different things in one summer. It’s a lot easier to focus on one thing. What Greg has done a sensational job of this summer is zoning in on that one thing and he’s put a lot of work in both here and (Washington, where he works out at Georgetown) at summer school and back in Louisiana, putting in a lot of work at the USA Basketball practices, in Summer League when he was down in Orlando – he’s put a lot of work into that.

Its good to hear he's putting in work. it never dawn'd upon me but this is the first camp in 2 years where moose is no longer the "franchise player". He very well could be coming off the bench if he doesn't improve. which makes me optimistic

“Everybody in this building likes Tony Mitchell,” Dumars said. “They love his personality, they love his athleticism, they love the way he comes in and works, no complaints, has a great spirit about him. We have the luxury of bringing him along at whatever pace is best for him at this point. But I think Tony’s going to compete. He’s not going to back down. He’s not going to stand at the back of the line and wait. I think he’s going to try to fight his way out there and see if he can get some minutes.”

We tend to forget about Tony because most of us have seen the Terrico Whites, Rodney Whites, and other "freak athletic" players and bought the hype to only be disappointed. Having said that, Tony i think is going to help us as much as hurt us. His BBallIQ doesn't seem high, but he seems willing to learn.

WTF? Moose might be coming off the bench? Ummm......

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[Blkbrd671]

“I saw him having to guard Tony Michell, a four man who’s athletic, and then at USA Basketball he had to guard four men, some of them who were really threes when they went small – Harrison Barnes, Michael Kidd-Gilchrist,” Joe Dumars said. “It could not have worked out better for us, the summer he ended up having. Greg’s a versatile, talented, smart kid. A lot of the questions of sliding to a new position, when you’re dealing with a high-IQ player, they tend to figure it out quicker than most.”

Everyone talks about his jump shot, but the most important thing is if he can effectively guard 4's and 3's.

“No question,” David said. “Greg and I talked a lot this summer about this. We talked about just the difference in his game overall with being able to knock down an open, face-up 15- to 17-foot jump shot consistently. One of the things we talked about is it’s hard to get better at five different things in one summer. It’s a lot easier to focus on one thing. What Greg has done a sensational job of this summer is zoning in on that one thing and he’s put a lot of work in both here and (Washington, where he works out at Georgetown) at summer school and back in Louisiana, putting in a lot of work at the USA Basketball practices, in Summer League when he was down in Orlando – he’s put a lot of work into that.

Its good to hear he's putting in work. it never dawn'd upon me but this is the first camp in 2 years where moose is no longer the "franchise player". He very well could be coming off the bench if he doesn't improve. which makes me optimistic

“Everybody in this building likes Tony Mitchell,” Dumars said. “They love his personality, they love his athleticism, they love the way he comes in and works, no complaints, has a great spirit about him. We have the luxury of bringing him along at whatever pace is best for him at this point. But I think Tony’s going to compete. He’s not going to back down. He’s not going to stand at the back of the line and wait. I think he’s going to try to fight his way out there and see if he can get some minutes.”

We tend to forget about Tony because most of us have seen the Terrico Whites, Rodney Whites, and other "freak athletic" players and bought the hype to only be disappointed. Having said that, Tony i think is going to help us as much as hurt us. His BBallIQ doesn't seem high, but he seems willing to learn.

WTF? Moose might be coming off the bench? Ummm......

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You don't think its possible? IF moose can't hit a consistent jump shot and is more effective at the center position, why wouldn't you move Smith to PF and have Moose come off the bench? I don't want Moose to come off the bench, but if you don't see that as a possibility of happening then your not being realistic. The ingenius's of Joe's signing of Smith is that it allows us flexibility if Moose doesn't take the next step both with our lineups and trade-able assets. The moto is not rebuilding but contending.

[DetroitSho]

Everyone talks about his jump shot, but the most important thing is if he can effectively guard 4's and 3's.



Its good to hear he's putting in work. it never dawn'd upon me but this is the first camp in 2 years where moose is no longer the "franchise player". He very well could be coming off the bench if he doesn't improve. which makes me optimistic



We tend to forget about Tony because most of us have seen the Terrico Whites, Rodney Whites, and other "freak athletic" players and bought the hype to only be disappointed. Having said that, Tony i think is going to help us as much as hurt us. His BBallIQ doesn't seem high, but he seems willing to learn.

WTF? Moose might be coming off the bench? Ummm......

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using RealGM Forums mobile app

You don't think its possible? IF moose can't hit a consistent jump shot and is more effective at the center position, why wouldn't you move Smith to PF and have Moose come off the bench? I don't want Moose to come off the bench, but if you don't see that as a possibility of happening then your not being realistic. The ingenius's of Joe's signing of Smith is that it allows us flexibility if Moose doesn't take the next step both with our lineups and trade-able assets. The moto is not rebuilding but contending.

So Moose has the best lowpost game on the team but if he doesn't develop a consistent jumper he loses his spot to someone without a consistent jumper as well and an even worse lowpost game. You didn't say trade him for Aldridge who can knock it down with the best of em or a scoring wing, you said put him on the bench, thus killing any trade value he has as an asset and also alienating him.

I think its more realistic we end up with Carmelo Anthony in a 2-3 team trade with a package centered around Moose than it is bringing Moose off the bench. And by the way, I don't even think my scenario is too realistic, that's how unrealistic I see yours as.

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[Blkbrd671]

So Moose has the best lowpost game on the team but if he doesn't develop a consistent jumper he loses his spot to someone without a consistent jumper as well and an even worse lowpost game.

No mooses loses his spot if he can't develop the pf skillset(ie consistent jump shot). Moose may have a better low post game, but when dre's in the game, ideally you want your center near the rim not in the high post or by the 3. Also Josh is the much better defender, and floor spacing issues are limited, having only 1 player outside of dre that can't spread the floor.

You didn't say trade him for Aldridge who can knock it down with the best of em or a scoring wing, you said put him on the bench, thus killing any trade value he has as an asset and also alienating him.

??? your reaching here bud, JR smith, Ginobli, harden etc. all come off the bench. There value is fine. Your completely off. If moose coming off the bench helps us win games moreso than starting with Dre, that isn't going to effect his trade value, but rather increase it. The question isn't if moose can produce but rather can he produce at the PF position. If he can't his value is as a starting low post center, which starting or coming off the bench is a huge commodity in this league

I think its more realistic we end up with Carmelo Anthony in a 2-3 team trade with a package centered around Moose than it is bringing Moose off the bench. And by the way, I don't even think my scenario is too realistic, that's how unrealistic I see yours as.

Have you been in a cave? We acquired josh smith, which legitimately creates a spacing problem with him at the 3 and a unproven shooter in Moose at the 4. Yet your acting like you know moose will transition to the 4 flawlessly. Which is either homerism or ignorance. If Smith-Moose-Dre lineup is not winning us games, its 100% that there will be a lineup change, and because Smith can effectively play both sides of the floor as a PF, and we have no legitimate backup center, its more likely than not, moose goes to the bench.

Again how this all pans out is anyone's guess, but your blowing off realistic scenario's and grasping on to even farther fetched ones

[Sheeeeed]

Falk isn't going to stand for that **** if the Pistons idea for Monroe's future is to come off the bench.

[Cowology]

Yeah, I don't see it happening either. Too much politics involved. If it happens pre-deadline we'll be forced to trade him and if it happens post-dealine we'll kill our shot of re-signing him and give up leverage. Whether it makes sense from a pure bball standpoint or not is almost irrelevant since it makes poor business sense. You don't burn that bridge.

[DetroitSho]

Yeah, I don't see it happening either. Too much politics involved. If it happens pre-deadline we'll be forced to trade him and if it happens post-dealine we'll kill our shot of re-signing him and give up leverage. Whether it makes sense from a pure bball standpoint or not is almost irrelevant since it makes poor business sense. You don't burn that bridge.

Apparently you live in a cave with logic like this.

/sarcasm

I'm not sure how this guy can entertain the thought of that even being possible let alone create a long drawn out argument to support it.

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[Warspite]

If Moose stuggles at PF its much more likely that Drummond moves to the bench.


No way Moose moves to the bench in his RFA yr and doesnt then ask for a trade. If Joe likes Smith and Drummond then its time to move Moose.