SB Nation Article: Trade Moose at your own Risk

[Blkbrd671]

http://www.detroitbadboys.com/2013/10/1 ... ns-preview

Pretty good read, i particularly liked the defense analysis, however i would have liked to see more statistical backup, as my eyeball tests agree

[ImHeisenberg]

It's fluff. I'm not in favor of trading Monroe. Right now, it shouldn't even be considered.

But, until we see how Moose works within this team, no amount of color commentary carries an ounce of weight.

I would also like to add, if things don't turn out well, I would absolutely elect to try and trade Smith long before Monroe. I would rather pay Moose around a max deal, than Smith 12+ million over a similar time period.

[tmorgan]

It's not fluff at all, Heisenberg. Did you even read it?

The summary: Monroe is likely going to suffer from the current construction of the Pistons, and will likely be scapegoated and/or traded if things don't work out well.

I agree 100%. I don't want to trade Monroe, but if the parts don't fit, he's likely going to be the guy to go. If that's the case, I hope Joe can find the right assets in return.

[Blkbrd671]

It's not fluff at all Heisenberg. Did you even read it?

The summary: Monroe is likely going to suffer from the current construction of the Pistons, and will likely be scapegoated and/or traded if things don't work out well.

I agree 100%. I don't want to trade Monroe, but if the parts don't fit, he's likely going to be the guy to go. If that's the case, I hope Joe can find the right assets in return.

actually not necessarily., yes we did sign Josh smith to a deal, but 1 its really not that bad of a deal, meaning its trade able, If moose is a fit at PF we don't trade moose becuase Smith can't play the 3. if you get my meaning.

[tmorgan]

Eh, if our offer was the best offer Josh Smith could get, then likely no other team thinks he's worth that kind of money. Doesn't mean they don't WANT him, but it does mean they think he's overpaid, which hurts his value.

That said, Moose is gonna get paid close to that much starting next year, so there might not be much difference. Sure, we could trade Smith and keep Monroe, but it really does seem less likely, doesn't it?

[russkopp]

If it comes down to Smith or Monroe I still choose Smith. Offense more or less equals out and smith is far better on defense. I'm not trying to trade moose but if the opportunity comes up where we get the SF we need, you have to make that trade. Spending almost Max money on two PFs will not work.

[Blkbrd671]

Eh, if our offer was the best offer Josh Smith could get, then likely no other team thinks he's worth that kind of money. Doesn't mean they don't WANT him, but it does mean they think he's overpaid, which hurts his value.

That said, Moose is gonna get paid close to that much starting next year, so there might not be much difference. Sure, we could trade Smith and keep Monroe, but it really does seem less likely, doesn't it?

i don't think Josh smith picked the biggest offer on the table, and i do think there are teams that see his utility and would pay 12 mil for it.

While i agree that perception would dictate that Moose would go before josh, since we just signed josh. i think the ultimate determining factor will be who is the better PF and compliment to Dre. (assuming Josh doesn't work as a 3).

[Kilo]

See how he plays alongside Drummond this season, but if he shows he's a center in the NBA and can't play the four then we have to move him. I'd offer him straight up for the #2 overall pick - whoever ends up with it if they need a 24 yr old established big over the best non-Wiggins in the draft.

Move Smith to the 4, draft best scorer 3 remaining and presto.

[tmorgan]

See how he plays alongside Drummond this season, but if he shows he's a center in the NBA and can't play the four then we have to move him. I'd offer him straight up for the #2 overall pick - whoever ends up with it if they need a 24 yr old established big over the best non-Wiggins in the draft.

Move Smith to the 4, draft best scorer 3 remaining and presto.

Problem is, no one will do that. Monroe might be as productive as Randle/Exum/Parker/whoever, but costs a ton more money. In this draft, Monroe won't get you a top 5 pick, guaranteed.

Also, blkbird, Josh Smith isn't making 12 mil, he's making (on average) 13.5 mil. That's not a tiny difference.

[Blkbrd671]

See how he plays alongside Drummond this season, but if he shows he's a center in the NBA and can't play the four then we have to move him. I'd offer him straight up for the #2 overall pick - whoever ends up with it if they need a 24 yr old established big over the best non-Wiggins in the draft.

Move Smith to the 4, draft best scorer 3 remaining and presto.

Problem is, no one will do that. Monroe might be as productive as Randle/Exum/Parker/whoever, but costs a ton more money. In this draft, Monroe won't get you a top 5 pick, guaranteed.

Also, blkbird, Josh Smith isn't making 12 mil, he's making (on average) 13.5 mil. That's not a tiny difference.

My bad, it isn't small at all, but the point remains the same, josh didn't go after the most money, i still think there are some GM's who would look at smith as a player worth 13.5

[Blkbrd671]

If it comes down to Smith or Monroe I still choose Smith. Offense more or less equals out and smith is far better on defense. I'm not trying to trade moose but if the opportunity comes up where we get the SF we need, you have to make that trade. Spending almost Max money on two PFs will not work.

You make a valid point, and your right. Its nice that we theoretically have 2 skilled pf's to pick .

[Q00]

I didn't read the article, but I think most of the fans who ever entertained the idea of trading him were doing so solely on the premise of him not fitting with Smith/Dre. So far seeing them in three games, I'm confident saying they fit great together. At least we as a team look much better when all three are on the court vs just two. So I don't know how many fans are still entertaining trading him. Thus this article sounds like its a little outdated and a few weeks late.

I know one thing, going into the Chicago game tomorrow I'd feel much less confident against Noah/Boozer/Deng if we just had Dre/Smith. But with Monroe I have no worries at all about their frontcourt. Same goes for when we play Indiana. In this division its imperative to have elite talent at all three frontcourt positions. We have it, so no reason that I can think of right now to intentionally change that.

One other thing, I always saw Smith as a SF playing out of position in Atlanta, and not a PF. Seeing him next to two true bigs now on the Pistons I'm convinced more than ever that he is a SF. Dre/Moose almost dwarf him to the point that he clearly looks like a SF to me. When its just Dre/Smith in, I feel like when we used to play Tayshaun at PF. The difference in size between Dre/Moose and Dre/Smith is noticeably smaller, and I don't want to give up that size and just be left with Dre/Smith. Even if we got an elite SF in return for Moose, I'd feel like we were playing 2 SFs and a Center and then be devoid of a true PF. So I have no interest in trading away our only PF just for another SF that we don't need.

[Sheeeeed]

So exactly where is this coming from Smith didn't go for the most money he could get?

[Blkbrd671]

So exactly where is this coming from Smith didn't go for the most money he could get?

i had thought i had read that somewhere but i cant find the article, however i also can't find a article saying that we offered the most. Please let me know if you do. i think the fact that he tried to sell himself to the pistons indicated it was more than just money in wanting to be here. In retrospect , "Eye of the beholder".

I also do think that 13.5-14 million for 4 years for a player like smith that fills up a stat sheet and is entering his prime is still a positive asset.

[rock digger]

The fact that he signed with us is pretty much proof that we offered the most money. An athlete in their prime rarely ever takes a discount, especially if said team he signed with is not his original team.

[2Mas]

You guys want Avery Bradley? do a S&T Bradley & BK 2014's for Monroe?

Between Bradley, Smith & Drummond, defense will be crazy! If KCP can stay at the 3 spot, AB would fit good at the 2. If you want we can take back stuckey too?! lol Give you Bass, lee, Wallace, Hump, whoever you want lol.

[Joe Berry]

You guys want Avery Bradley? do a S&T Bradley & BK 2014's for Monroe?

Between Bradley, Smith & Drummond, defense will be crazy! If KCP can stay at the 3 spot, AB would fit good at the 2. If you want we can take back stuckey too?! lol Give you Bass, lee, Wallace, Hump, whoever you want lol.

This is a nice example why it would be a terrible idea to trade Monroe, there is just not an equivalent perimeter player out there, that is #1 available #2 same talent level as Moose #3 about the same age. We are talking about a borderline all-star SG or SF at the age of 20-25. Just like talented big man in the NBA, these kind of players dont grow on trees either AND are available for trade.
Any other trade for any combination of role players would hurt this team mid- and longterm going forward.

[vic]

You guys want Avery Bradley? do a S&T Bradley & BK 2014's for Monroe?

Between Bradley, Smith & Drummond, defense will be crazy! If KCP can stay at the 3 spot, AB would fit good at the 2. If you want we can take back stuckey too?! lol Give you Bass, lee, Wallace, Hump, whoever you want lol.

This is a nice example why it would be a terrible idea to trade Monroe, there is just not an equivalent perimeter player out there, that is #1 available #2 same talent level as Moose #3 about the same age. We are talking about a borderline all-star SG or SF at the age of 20-25. Just like talented big man in the NBA, these kind of players dont grow on trees either AND are available for trade.
Any other trade for any combination of role players would hurt this team mid- and longterm going forward.

Exactly.
Any trade that makes the team better can be done.
Who exactly are you going to get for a productive 23 year old big?
If its not a top 5 unprotected draft pick or an All NBA wing under 25 then please be silent.

[Hotmayo]

See how he plays alongside Drummond this season, but if he shows he's a center in the NBA and can't play the four then we have to move him. I'd offer him straight up for the #2 overall pick - whoever ends up with it if they need a 24 yr old established big over the best non-Wiggins in the draft.

Move Smith to the 4, draft best scorer 3 remaining and presto.

You'd trade an established big with all star potential for a draft pick?

Lol

[sc8581]

Monroe would have to get traded over Smith for 2 reasons in my opinion, one, he would bring more back in a trade, and two, Smith is the better overall player.