RealGM

Yup, I just did...

This thread is designed for those who are as horrified with this team as I am. I'll start by saying that I hope we turn it around and become the team I thought we could but I don't see that happening. It would take a miracle, or a competent coach maybe..., to turn this team around I don't think we are getting either.

Try and blow this team up with trade scenarios you think would be good for our future. I'll post some but I would like to hear what other people think we should do and why. I'll start.

Fire Joe Dumars

Fire Mo Cheeks

Trade #1: Monroe/Singler for Barnes/Bazemore

GSW gets a more experienced super sub to create a vicious front court rotation. Draymond Green can shift to backup SF and takes Barnes place. GSW would become legit contenders with arguably the best backcourt in the league and one of the best frontcourt rotations in the league.

DET gets a guy with allstar potential who is still on his rookie contract and can form a dynamic duo with Drummond.

Trade #2 (Dec, 15th): Josh Smith for Ben Gordon straight up

CHA gets some defense in that frontcourt and can roll out a Jefferson/Smith/Zeller/Biyombo rotation which is pretty decent. Smith is actually on a good contract so I think this deal is more than fair for the Bobcats who seem to be trying to upgrade their talent.

We get out of Smith's contract for cap flexibility.

Trade #3: Bynum for Hinrich

Chicago desperately needs some scoring and Bynum could fill the "Robinson" role.

We get rid of Bynum for all eternity.

We tank hard to keep our pick, focus on developing Barnes and Dre, and draft Julius Randle to fill our PF position.

Next years roster:

Jennings
KCP
Barnes
Randle
Drummond

Anyone else want to give it a try?

at the very least, a month too early.

You have to relax DP, you are going off the deep end today.

I find it funny how people on the general board seem more reasonable and reserved about this team than we do.

We've had a rough start, but we've only had one uncompetitive game. We beat the teams we should have beaten, and lost to teams we should have lost too. Only arguable one is Portland, but they were at home. Plus, we very nearly beat a team that was better than us in Memphis.

We do not have an easy schedule. That matters.

And also, weren't we all predicting that this team would start slowly? Didn't we all know that this was a team composed of awkward fits and that it would take time to hammer out the rotations and get everyone to learn their role? Has everyone forgotten that we were supposed to start poorly?

I mean really, they looked absolutely atrocious last night, but the doom and gloom talk needs be turned down a bit. Cheeks, and awful as he has been so far, has at least shown some willingness to switch things up, which is better than Frank. He played JJ, and when he didn't do much in the first few games, he benched him and tried someone else. CV was almost the last person to play backup PF (since we won't include the 18 second Mitchell got), and he pulled him as soon as he missed his first two threes, which shows to me that Cheeks at least understands what he has in CV-a guy who is lazy and can't contribute anything besides 3's and spacing, so if he isn't hitting his 3s he should not be playing. Heck, he benched Smith when he was playing like hot garbage. Frank continued to play people, results be darned.

We'd all rather see KCP playing, and maybe even starting, but Cheeks has some reasons to keep other people ahead in the rotation- Chauncey is a franchise legend and came here with some conditions in mind. Cheeks can't insult him by benching him for a rookie unless Chauncey endorses it a bit, and given his poor play after the first game, I think he'll allow it. Stuckey has to play because he'd probably complain if he wasn't getting PT in a contract year, and we want to up his trade value. Finally, Bynum plays because of what he did with Drummond last year, and because he's always been a hard worker, and he wants to reward hard work. They have to prove that it doesn't work on the court before Cheeks can bench them without hurting their feelings too much. Remember, Cheeks was brought in as a player's coach. His moves may suck for BBall reasons right now, but his moves might be fore ego reasons instead- and managing ego's is incredibly important, thus Frank getting hated by his players.

Now that he's given GiGi and KCP minutes, I think that there's a chance he'll work them into the rotation more.

Certainly, this is speculation, and I'm not going to call Cheeks a genius, pretend that we couldn't do better, or that I was even supportive of his hiring. But at least give them a little while.

Notanoob wrote:I find it funny how people on the general board seem more reasonable and reserved about this team than we do.

We've had a rough start, but we've only had one uncompetitive game. We beat the teams we should have beaten, and lost to teams we should have lost too. Only arguable one is Portland, but they were at home. Plus, we very nearly beat a team that was better than us in Memphis.

We do not have an easy schedule. That matters.

And also, weren't we all predicting that this team would start slowly? Didn't we all know that this was a team composed of awkward fits and that it would take time to hammer out the rotations and get everyone to learn their role? Has everyone forgotten that we were supposed to start poorly?

I mean really, they looked absolutely atrocious last night, but the doom and gloom talk needs be turned down a bit. Cheeks, and awful as he has been so far, has at least shown some willingness to switch things up, which is better than Frank. He played JJ, and when he didn't do much in the first few games, he benched him and tried someone else. CV was almost the last person to play backup PF (since we won't include the 18 second Mitchell got), and he pulled him as soon as he missed his first two threes, which shows to me that Cheeks at least understands what he has in CV-a guy who is lazy and can't contribute anything besides 3's and spacing, so if he isn't hitting his 3s he should not be playing. Heck, he benched Smith when he was playing like hot garbage. Frank continued to play people, results be darned.

We'd all rather see KCP playing, and maybe even starting, but Cheeks has some reasons to keep other people ahead in the rotation- Chauncey is a franchise legend and came here with some conditions in mind. Cheeks can't insult him by benching him for a rookie unless Chauncey endorses it a bit, and given his poor play after the first game, I think he'll allow it. Stuckey has to play because he'd probably complain if he wasn't getting PT in a contract year, and we want to up his trade value. Finally, Bynum plays because of what he did with Drummond last year, and because he's always been a hard worker, and he wants to reward hard work. They have to prove that it doesn't work on the court before Cheeks can bench them without hurting their feelings too much. Remember, Cheeks was brought in as a player's coach. His moves may suck for BBall reasons right now, but his moves might be fore ego reasons instead- and managing ego's is incredibly important, thus Frank getting hated by his players.

Now that he's given GiGi and KCP minutes, I think that there's a chance he'll work them into the rotation more.

Certainly, this is speculation, and I'm not going to call Cheeks a genius, pretend that we couldn't do better, or that I was even supportive of his hiring. But at least give them a little while.

To be fair about Memphis, they have no outside shooting with the exception of Bayless and he lit us up off the bench. We have no outside perimeter defense which made the Memphis team look much more closer than it was. For teams that are more all-around good, we get torched easily on the outside like Portland did, Wiz, and GSW.

We really need perimeter defense and stop with this big 3 nonsense unless we're going to tighten up our defensive philosophy.

DetroitPistons wrote:Yup, I just did...

This thread is designed for those who are as horrified with this team as I am. I'll start by saying that I hope we turn it around and become the team I thought we could but I don't see that happening. It would take a miracle, or a competent coach maybe..., to turn this team around I don't think we are getting either.

Try and blow this team up with trade scenarios you think would be good for our future. I'll post some but I would like to hear what other people think we should do and why. I'll start.

Fire Joe Dumars

Fire Mo Cheeks

Trade #1: Monroe/Singler for Barnes/Bazemore

GSW gets a more experienced super sub to create a vicious front court rotation. Draymond Green can shift to backup SF and takes Barnes place. GSW would become legit contenders with arguably the best backcourt in the league and one of the best frontcourt rotations in the league.

DET gets a guy with allstar potential who is still on his rookie contract and can form a dynamic duo with Drummond.

Trade #2 (Dec, 15th): Josh Smith for Ben Gordon straight up

CHA gets some defense in that frontcourt and can roll out a Jefferson/Smith/Zeller/Biyombo rotation which is pretty decent. Smith is actually on a good contract so I think this deal is more than fair for the Bobcats who seem to be trying to upgrade their talent.

We get out of Smith's contract for cap flexibility.

Trade #3: Bynum for Hinrich

Chicago desperately needs some scoring and Bynum could fill the "Robinson" role.

We get rid of Bynum for all eternity.

We tank hard to keep our pick, focus on developing Barnes and Dre, and draft Julius Randle to fill our PF position.

Next years roster:

Jennings
KCP
Barnes
Randle
Drummond

Anyone else want to give it a try?

Trade 1: Monroe, Jennings, KCP for Russell Westbrook

Trade 2: CV31, Stuckey for Thad Young, Evan Turner, Jason Richardson


Westbrook/Billups
Turner/Singler
Young/Datome
Smith
Drummond


Richardson, Jerebko & Bynum would be about $13 mil in next year expirings.

Clarity wrote:You have to relax DP, you are going off the deep end today.

dVs33 wrote:at the very least, a month too early.

@DP -- I will be with you if this continues even after the first 1 and 1/2 months of the season. No need to give big contracts to anyone right now. Prove it or get out -- starting from the GM down to the DNP-CV type players.

Edit: Dumars and his horrible hiring at the HC spot need to start packing before anyone else.

if we suck at 30 games

keepers
Andre Drummond- duh
KCP- semi-duh
Stuckey (for his large expiring, perhaps buy out for a D-Leaguer)
CV-DNP (same as Stuck)
Chauncey (small contract vet shooter, leader)
Singler (small contract floor stretcher combo-forward we would need anyways)
Datome (same as Singler. Maybe more effective)
Harrelson (floor-stretcher, small deal and everybody needs a 3rd center anyways)

trading block (all of them. it would be all in)
Siva (a future 2nd could be a better trade chip)
Mitchell (same as above)
Monroe (the return and big cap space might be better. otherwise keep him w/out question)
Smoove (you get more than expirings)
Jennings (expirings might be enough. he isn't a scrub or "net negative" tho.)
Will Bynum (I want gone for Austin Daye - another floor stretcher - regardless of the team record)
Jonas Jerebko (the one true net negative player. could be packaged with Smoove or Monroe)

what to get in return for the above?
1st rounders, especially our 1st to Charlotte, but skip Charlotte if they wanna pillage us
2nd rounders
expirings
maybe a long-term player or two. MAYBE... (shot-blocker, 3&D guy, vet pg)
another 1st rounder from 2013 would be nice (Noel, Zeller, Greek Freak, Porter Jr.,....)

If we go through another rebuild after all of this, I won't watch any more games. This idea is too reliant on the draft. We suck at tanking.

Each one of those trades outside the Bynum one is absolutely horrible.

The current roster, even with it's shortcomings would be interesting if we had an adequate coach. It's painfully obvious after just 7 games that the players are not buying into this coach or his system(does he even have a system?)
I don't need to wait 30-40 games to see this. I've watched enough players going 1 on 1 and tossing up poor shots to see that many of them think they need to do everything themselves when things start to go bad. This is a lack of trust in coaching and their teammates. Watch the body language of several guys. These players are clearly not on the same page at all.
We have no choice but to give it some time but I'm not optimistic at all anymore. I hope Cheeks gets it right but he has no history of doing so.

Blow it up might be too extreme at this point. They should have blown it up 3 or 4 years ago.

But, I'm all for this team making some blockbuster trades (or two). I mentioned in the 'around the league' thread, about going after Melo with Monroe and Stuckey if NY keeps losing and he threatens to leave.

The thing to do here- if Detroit makes a trade, trade-up! Don't trade down for multiple lesser pieces. Be the team that gives up two or three players for one really good one.

imagump1313 wrote:(does he even have a system?)

Good question.

MrBigShot wrote:If we go through another rebuild after all of this, I won't watch any more games. This idea is too reliant on the draft. We suck at tanking.

Plus if Detroit's blowing it up, no way Charlotte gives up that pick. They would have top 5 pick next year and without a lottery pick in one year, it's very hard to get back into relevant team. You have to hit Wiggins or something when the year you have pick.

The things I heard about Cheeks before the season were that he was a players coach. A nice guy and quiet guy. If his teams were talented enough, like the Trailblazers, they'd basically coach themselves. if he had young, inexperienced teams...the lack of a voice and leadership backfires. I'm worried this is already the case with this team. Yes it's early and we have 8 new players but they appear to have NO direction on the court. Offense is basically 1 on 1 and the defense, as we know, is not statistically the worst in the league. This is the reason I was hoping for someone that could keep these guys in check. The next time a change happens it'll be because Joe D is out the door.

DetroitPistons wrote:Yup, I just did...

This thread is designed for those who are as horrified with this team as I am. I'll start by saying that I hope we turn it around and become the team I thought we could but I don't see that happening. It would take a miracle, or a competent coach maybe..., to turn this team around I don't think we are getting either.

Try and blow this team up with trade scenarios you think would be good for our future. I'll post some but I would like to hear what other people think we should do and why. I'll start.

Fire Joe Dumars

Fire Mo Cheeks

Trade #1: Monroe/Singler for Barnes/Bazemore

GSW gets a more experienced super sub to create a vicious front court rotation. Draymond Green can shift to backup SF and takes Barnes place. GSW would become legit contenders with arguably the best backcourt in the league and one of the best frontcourt rotations in the league.

DET gets a guy with allstar potential who is still on his rookie contract and can form a dynamic duo with Drummond.

Trade #2 (Dec, 15th): Josh Smith for Ben Gordon straight up

CHA gets some defense in that frontcourt and can roll out a Jefferson/Smith/Zeller/Biyombo rotation which is pretty decent. Smith is actually on a good contract so I think this deal is more than fair for the Bobcats who seem to be trying to upgrade their talent.

We get out of Smith's contract for cap flexibility.

Trade #3: Bynum for Hinrich

Chicago desperately needs some scoring and Bynum could fill the "Robinson" role.

We get rid of Bynum for all eternity.

We tank hard to keep our pick, focus on developing Barnes and Dre, and draft Julius Randle to fill our PF position.

Next years roster:

Jennings
KCP
Barnes
Randle
Drummond

Anyone else want to give it a try?

I understand where you are coming from on this DP. You want to go Buffalo Sabres on us and clean house a few games in. I agree that the pieces to fit the puzzle. If the Pistons continue to run Smith at three, I would definitely consider blowing it up!

My ideas:

1) Josh Smith to Charlotte for our pick back and Gordon.

2) I'd trade Moose and Jennings to get what we can for them but making sure the trades in involve Bynum and Jerebko both leaving.

3) Buy out Gordon, Stuckey, and DNP-CV

4) Roll with a line-up built around Drummond, Caldwell-Pope, and our pick in this draft with Singler, Datome, Mitchell, Harrellson, and Siva as our bench guys.

You know what these fantasy scenarios are not even close to realistic proposals unless you are playing NBA 2k13. Not even close.

In addition, GM's rarely make that many moves if you look at all the trades which happen every year. I mean we are lucky if even half the teams in the NBA even make one trade per year at that.

Hence, not a chance in hell any of these trades go through. Joe didn't make these moves this past year after waiting YEARS just so he can "Blow it Up" after 10 games or even half a season much less the next two years.

Just not going to happen.

There were really no real trades after the team mutinied years ago against a Head Coach. Thus, this team can only win 25 games and there will be zero trades via the way Joe operates. He truly believes a team needs to stick and play with each other to work out the kinks over time.

I suggest those who are panicking just go form a league and play 2k13 together. Because, that is about as close to a trade ya'll are going to get at this point where major players are moved. If anything, Stuckey or CV will be the only ones moved and I doubt the Pistons get any Game Changers out of those trades.

coolness wrote:
keepers

Stuckey (for his large expiring, perhaps buy out for a D-Leaguer)
CV-DNP (same as Stuck)
Chauncey (small contract vet shooter, leader)
Singler (small contract floor stretcher combo-forward we would need anyways)
Datome (same as Singler. Maybe more effective)
Harrelson (floor-stretcher, small deal and everybody needs a 3rd center anyways)

trading block (all of them. it would be all in)

Monroe (the return and big cap space might be better. otherwise keep him w/out question)

How does this make sense??

Josh Smith for your pick back? Oh, heeeelll no.

I'd take Monroe for your pick back.

Why trade away all of our players in an effort to blow it up we're practically tanking as is.