Josh Smith's Defense 11/29

[DTP]

So, Josh Smith took a lot of criticism, most of you blaming him for the loss last night. Since I'm trying to avoid this mountain of homework I have in front of me, I went back and took notes on the game....looked at most plays 2 or 3 times to confirm too.

1st qrt
10:43; Blake penetrated off pick and roll kickout to Johnson for 3 (Stop ball, Smith had to help)
7:18; Stopped Pau in pick and roll, Stuckey did not help Josh, open 3 for Johnson (Had to stop ball, which was Pau)
6:10; Missed open 3 pointer, good shot just missed it
5:53; Monroe helped Jennings and Drummond pick and roll, Josh left with Williams, Johnson, and Meeks alone, Blake penetrates under basket to Williams (Monroe’s man) for open 3 (Josh left alone with Williams in corner and Johnson at the top, can't cover both)
4:32; Gasol slipped pick right under basket (Monroe), draws help from Singler, and Smith…Gasol passes out to Blake, Blake penetrates to Williams for open 3. (Had to stop Ball (Blake)), Monroe was out of position
2:54; Fouled Nick Young driving, helping Stuckey Young hit 1 of 2
2:22; Did not help pick and roll guarding Williams, Gasol And1 (When Josh does stay home, killed inside

2nd qrt
4:43; Bad crosscourt pass
4:27; Monroe not back to cover Hill under the basket, Blake passed to Johnson for corner open 3 (Monroe has to hustle back in transition
2:57; Pick and roll pop and then slip from Johnson, pass came from Gasol on box open layup for Johnson no help from KCP (If KCP helps, there's no layup here and forces LA to make multiple passes instead of one
1:38; Bad turnover in backcourt, led to open Meeks layup
35.7; Hustling back in transition, fouls Nick Young for 3; Young hits 3-3
1.3; Backcut from Johnson open dunk

3rd quarter
10:34; Bad pass

4th quarter
10:26; Pick and roll, covered Sacre rolling and Farmar hit Williams, for open 3 no help from Singler (Singler didn't help Josh helping, if Josh doesn't help open dunk from Sacre
8:28; Gave up offensive rebound to Williams open layup
6:20; airball
2:10; Nick Young baseline penetration to corner open 3 for Williams Singler was getting torched, had to help

Of course, people look at the box score and see but in reality, Josh actually gives up 10 points the entire game. Add in that last corner three by Williams, fine....13. But he's our weakest defender? He's constantly covering for his teammates and last night it showed big time. Number one rule of basketball, at any level, is stop the ball, is it not? Otherwise, it's a layup line.

To play 44 minutes, grab 19 boards, dish out 8 assists, and snag 5 steals and block 2 shots, only giving up 10-13 points the entire game....cancer? Weakest defender? Not a fit? Seriously get real.

He did struggle offensively, he did turn it over 5 times....no player is going to be perfect...he brings way more good than bad though, night in and out. But yes, let's continue to make Cheeks, Smith, and Jennings the reason for all of our problems after every loss.

[DetroitSho]

So, Josh Smith took a lot of criticism, most of you blaming him for the loss last night. Since I'm trying to avoid this mountain of homework I have in front of me, I went back and took notes on the game....looked at most plays 2 or 3 times to confirm too.

1st qrt
10:43; Blake penetrated off pick and roll kickout to Johnson for 3 (Stop ball, Smith had to help)
7:18; Stopped Pau in pick and roll, Stuckey did not help Josh, open 3 for Johnson (Had to stop ball, which was Pau)
6:10; Missed open 3 pointer, good shot just missed it
5:53; Monroe helped Jennings and Drummond pick and roll, Josh left with Williams, Johnson, and Meeks alone, Blake penetrates under basket to Williams (Monroe’s man) for open 3 (Josh left alone with Williams in corner and Johnson at the top, can't cover both)
4:32; Gasol slipped pick right under basket (Monroe), draws help from Singler, and Smith…Gasol passes out to Blake, Blake penetrates to Williams for open 3. (Had to stop Ball (Blake)), Monroe was out of position
2:54; Fouled Nick Young driving, helping Stuckey Young hit 1 of 2
2:22; Did not help pick and roll guarding Williams, Gasol And1 (When Josh does stay home, killed inside

2nd qrt
4:43; Bad crosscourt pass
4:27; Monroe not back to cover Hill under the basket, Blake passed to Johnson for corner open 3 (Monroe has to hustle back in transition
2:57; Pick and roll pop and then slip from Johnson, pass came from Gasol on box open layup for Johnson no help from KCP (If KCP helps, there's no layup here and forces LA to make multiple passes instead of one
1:38; Bad turnover in backcourt, led to open Meeks layup
35.7; Hustling back in transition, fouls Nick Young for 3; Young hits 3-3
1.3; Backcut from Johnson open dunk

3rd quarter
10:34; Bad pass

4th quarter
10:26; Pick and roll, covered Sacre rolling and Farmar hit Williams, for open 3 no help from Singler (Singler didn't help Josh helping, if Josh doesn't help open dunk from Sacre
8:28; Gave up offensive rebound to Williams open layup
6:20; airball
2:10; Nick Young baseline penetration to corner open 3 for Williams Singler was getting torched, had to help

Of course, people look at the box score and see but in reality, Josh actually gives up 10 points the entire game. Add in that last corner three by Williams, fine....13. But he's our weakest defender? He's constantly covering for his teammates and last night it showed big time. Number one rule of basketball, at any level, is stop the ball, is it not? Otherwise, it's a layup line.

To play 44 minutes, grab 19 boards, dish out 8 assists, and snag 5 steals and block 2 shots, only giving up 10-13 points the entire game....cancer? Weakest defender? Not a fit? Seriously get real.

He did struggle offensively, he did turn it over 5 times....no player is going to be perfect...he brings way more good than bad though, night in and out. But yes, let's continue to make Cheeks, Smith, and Jennings the reason for all of our problems after every loss.

After posting this, you should be able to sleep pretty good, no?

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using RealGM Forums mobile app

[DTP]

Haha I am about to take a nap...

[StickAndMove]

Johnson was his man; J-Smoove fell asleep on the cut which led to the easy alley-oop with time running out in the first half. Josh Smith has a low basketball IQ. He can't pay attention for the full 48 minutes. He's athletically gifted and good at on-ball defense. He's a bit less effective when it comes to team defense and clearly struggles with his attention span.

[wire28]

lol you keep saying people looked at the boxscore. we were all watching the game. obviously you have on mega blinders for joshua so its probably best to not discuss him with you again

your refusal to accept that joshua has a flaw in his game makes discussion of his game impossible

[DetroitPistons]

Wow some people just refuse to accept the truth. Go back and watch the game again without the homer glasses on. Smith constantly overhelps when he doesn't need to and falls asleep while basically ignoring his man. He is also too slow and too far out of position to get back and help. One of my biggest pet peeves defensively is when a player (usually a perimeter player) collapses to the paint to help when they aren't even needed at all. This leaves their man wide open and this is what Smith constantly does. Smith also can't even keep guys in front of him and always goes for stupid steals and he bites on pump fakes as much as Drummond does. He is a trainwreck defensively on the perimeter. Just accept it and start a fan movement calling for Smith to be traded in hopes that Dumars will actually do it.

[DTP]

Refusing the truth? How so, I'm showing facts. I gave times each event happened, so if someone wants to go back and prove me wrong...I welcome it. Not one example of him over helping yesterday, not one. You have to stop the freakin ball, if someone is dribbling right towards the rim, what sense does it make not to rotate over and stop the ball? The problem is, once the helper helps, no one helps the helper....killed off one pass. Watch Miami, I guarantee you see tons of example of great helpside defense all over the place and if someone helps, their teammates also helps that person. It's common sense basketball, not sure why it's so hard to understand.

[pistontr]

josh smit is great defender in PF position. every nba expert could say that.

and he is better passer than monroe.

last year monroe had 3.5 assists, smith had 4.2.

[dVs33]

Smith is not a good perimeter defender. thats that.

[sc8581]

Smith is not a good perimeter defender. thats that.

Are you saying Monroe is a good perimeter defender? Neither one is a perimeter player so wtf?

[pistontr]

Smith is not a good perimeter defender. thats that.

yes, he is terrible as a perimeter defender

[Balrog]

So, Josh Smith took a lot of criticism, most of you blaming him for the loss last night. Since I'm trying to avoid this mountain of homework I have in front of me, I went back and took notes on the game....looked at most plays 2 or 3 times to confirm too.

1st qrt
10:43; Blake penetrated off pick and roll kickout to Johnson for 3 (Stop ball, Smith had to help)
7:18; Stopped Pau in pick and roll, Stuckey did not help Josh, open 3 for Johnson (Had to stop ball, which was Pau)
6:10; Missed open 3 pointer, good shot just missed it
5:53; Monroe helped Jennings and Drummond pick and roll, Josh left with Williams, Johnson, and Meeks alone, Blake penetrates under basket to Williams (Monroe’s man) for open 3 (Josh left alone with Williams in corner and Johnson at the top, can't cover both)
4:32; Gasol slipped pick right under basket (Monroe), draws help from Singler, and Smith…Gasol passes out to Blake, Blake penetrates to Williams for open 3. (Had to stop Ball (Blake)), Monroe was out of position
2:54; Fouled Nick Young driving, helping Stuckey Young hit 1 of 2
2:22; Did not help pick and roll guarding Williams, Gasol And1 (When Josh does stay home, killed inside

2nd qrt
4:43; Bad crosscourt pass
4:27; Monroe not back to cover Hill under the basket, Blake passed to Johnson for corner open 3 (Monroe has to hustle back in transition
2:57; Pick and roll pop and then slip from Johnson, pass came from Gasol on box open layup for Johnson no help from KCP (If KCP helps, there's no layup here and forces LA to make multiple passes instead of one
1:38; Bad turnover in backcourt, led to open Meeks layup
35.7; Hustling back in transition, fouls Nick Young for 3; Young hits 3-3
1.3; Backcut from Johnson open dunk

3rd quarter
10:34; Bad pass

4th quarter
10:26; Pick and roll, covered Sacre rolling and Farmar hit Williams, for open 3 no help from Singler (Singler didn't help Josh helping, if Josh doesn't help open dunk from Sacre
8:28; Gave up offensive rebound to Williams open layup
6:20; airball
2:10; Nick Young baseline penetration to corner open 3 for Williams Singler was getting torched, had to help

Of course, people look at the box score and see but in reality, Josh actually gives up 10 points the entire game. Add in that last corner three by Williams, fine....13. But he's our weakest defender? He's constantly covering for his teammates and last night it showed big time. Number one rule of basketball, at any level, is stop the ball, is it not? Otherwise, it's a layup line.

To play 44 minutes, grab 19 boards, dish out 8 assists, and snag 5 steals and block 2 shots, only giving up 10-13 points the entire game....cancer? Weakest defender? Not a fit? Seriously get real.

He did struggle offensively, he did turn it over 5 times....no player is going to be perfect...he brings way more good than bad though, night in and out. But yes, let's continue to make Cheeks, Smith, and Jennings the reason for all of our problems after every loss.

Smoove is purely hated on this board. Whatever your argument will be, nothing will ever really change the minds of these people which is just plainly sad. And tbh, I think Smith is doing a fine job with his defense, he is constantly covering and helping when his teammates get beat. Im more dissapointed in Drummonds ability to change shots this season. Im sorry but he hasnt been showcasing the same presence and motor he had from last season. He needs to understand that if we are to be a good defensive team, it has to start with him because he is "supposedly" be our defensive anchor.

[Q00]

Smith is not a good perimeter defender. thats that.

yes, he is terrible as a perimeter defender

This is not true. No player can be a good perimeter defender if they have to constantly help off of their assignment to cover for another teammates mistakes.

Its funny because if Smith was actually the poor defender, it would be his teammates leaving their man to come and help him, not the other way around. If Pope had to constantly help on Smith's man, Smith would look like a great defender to the people here because his man would rarely score, always having help defense on him. And then people would be calling out Pope's defense instead, because his man would go off for big games, with him having to leave to help Smith all the time.

The real reason as to why Smith looks like he can't guard the perimeter is because of Monroe and Drummond's inability to protect the paint by themselves.

If they could trust Dre/Moose to guard the basket alone, then even if Jennings got beat off the dribble, Smith would not have to leave his man to come and help inside. He could just stay home knowing they have it covered inside. Because they haven't proven they can do it themselves, and Jennings is constantly taken off the dribble, Smith has to constantly leave his man to help, making him look like the bad perimeter defender because then his man is always open, but in reality that isn't true.

The moral of the story here is don't blame the help defender for the other players poor defense.

[wire28]

Yeesh how can we have blind homers for Joshua and he hasn't even been a piston for 30 games lol. I give up. The analysis by OP is irrelevant because he is extremely bias and believes Joshua can literally do no wrong on the defensive end.

It's akin to reading a review of Obama by MSNBC or Bush by Fox.

For the last time Joshua has a great skill set and is a great athlete. He is an amazing post defender. It's alright to admit he is putrid at defending on the perimeter. There is no reason Wes Johnson should be having a career night and no reason Shawne Williams should be relevant at the end of a professional basketball game.

People will see what they want to see though so good luck with that. Kind of pointless to discuss this matter anymore with people who refuse to acknowledge the flaws in the game of different players.

[Balrog]

Yeesh how can we have blind homers for Joshua and he hasn't even been a piston for 30 games lol. I give up. The analysis by OP is irrelevant because he is extremely bias and believes Joshua can literally do no wrong on the defensive end.

It's akin to reading a review of Obama by MSNBC or Bush by Fox.

For the last time Joshua has a great skill set and is a great athlete. He is an amazing post defender. It's alright to admit he is putrid at defending on the perimeter. There is no reason Wes Johnson should be having a career night and no reason Shawne Williams should be relevant at the end of a professional basketball game.

People will see what they want to see though so good luck with that. Kind of pointless to discuss this matter anymore with people who refuse to acknowledge the flaws in the game of different players.

Who the f*** is JOSHUA?

[DTP]

Smith is not a good perimeter defender. thats that.

But not one player scored on him one on one on the perimeter the entire game... Crazy.

[DTP]

Yeesh how can we have blind homers for Joshua and he hasn't even been a piston for 30 games lol. I give up. The analysis by OP is irrelevant because he is extremely bias and believes Joshua can literally do no wrong on the defensive end.

It's akin to reading a review of Obama by MSNBC or Bush by Fox.

For the last time Joshua has a great skill set and is a great athlete. He is an amazing post defender. It's alright to admit he is putrid at defending on the perimeter. There is no reason Wes Johnson should be having a career night and no reason Shawne Williams should be relevant at the end of a professional basketball game.

People will see what they want to see though so good luck with that. Kind of pointless to discuss this matter anymore with people who refuse to acknowledge the flaws in the game of different players.

I'm a blind homer for Josh? No, you're just a blind hater of Josh. I've provided examples, statistics, and logic and yet you still fail to admit you're wrong. As I've continued to point out, if you're a boxscore watcher then yeah...you look at the fact that Johnson and Williams had good games and you blame Smith. In reality, as pointed out by Vince Goodwill, as pointed out in the examples and statistics I showed....Detroit is really bad at helping the helper and when his teammates are constantly out of position, he has to help and receives no help.

If Josh Smith is the weakest perimeter defender and Johnson was just absolutely torching him, how come Johnson finished the game on the bench? How come LA didn't attack him on the defensive end not once in the third quarter? Why didn't LA attack him at the end of the game? Nick Young was killing us until Josh Smith switched on him and Young didn't score on Smith the entire game, which Smith guarded Young quite often throughout the game. Watch the game, not the boxscore.

All of you Smith bashers have still not explained to me how stopping the ball is considered over helping? I guess yes, Josh Smith is horrible because he can't consistently guard the paint and three point line all at once....that bum.

[Clarity]

Smith is not a good perimeter defender. thats that.

bingo

[wire28]

Yeesh how can we have blind homers for Joshua and he hasn't even been a piston for 30 games lol. I give up. The analysis by OP is irrelevant because he is extremely bias and believes Joshua can literally do no wrong on the defensive end.

It's akin to reading a review of Obama by MSNBC or Bush by Fox.

For the last time Joshua has a great skill set and is a great athlete. He is an amazing post defender. It's alright to admit he is putrid at defending on the perimeter. There is no reason Wes Johnson should be having a career night and no reason Shawne Williams should be relevant at the end of a professional basketball game.

People will see what they want to see though so good luck with that. Kind of pointless to discuss this matter anymore with people who refuse to acknowledge the flaws in the game of different players.

I'm a blind homer for Josh? No, you're just a blind hater of Josh. I've provided examples, statistics, and logic and yet you still fail to admit you're wrong. As I've continued to point out, if you're a boxscore watcher then yeah...you look at the fact that Johnson and Williams had good games and you blame Smith. In reality, as pointed out by Vince Goodwill, as pointed out in the examples and statistics I showed....Detroit is really bad at helping the helper and when his teammates are constantly out of position, he has to help and receives no help.

If Josh Smith is the weakest perimeter defender and Johnson was just absolutely torching him, how come Johnson finished the game on the bench? How come LA didn't attack him on the defensive end not once in the third quarter? Why didn't LA attack him at the end of the game? Nick Young was killing us until Josh Smith switched on him and Young didn't score on Smith the entire game, which Smith guarded Young quite often throughout the game. Watch the game, not the boxscore.

All of you Smith bashers have still not explained to me how stopping the ball is considered over helping? I guess yes, Josh Smith is horrible because he can't consistently guard the paint and three point line all at once....that bum.

im a blind hater? i've praised his individual defense man on man and have made little to no comment on his offensive abilities in any thread on here. calm down son, when i was younger i used to stan irrationally as well. until i realized, its ok to point out flaws in players games

you however have failed to admit ANY fault in his game (instantly making your "analysis" of the game horribly subjective, bias, and unreadable), which is laughable, irrational, and makes decent basket ball conversation with you impossible, which is why im stopping now lol

[whitehops]

smith has the second best DRtg on the team. obviously these things aren't perfect but clearly the pistons are better defensively when he's on the floor...