The Definitive Dre/Moose/Smoove Thread
Posted: Tue Dec 3, 2013 11:11 pm
All in one place, all opinions welcome. I've seen a lot of random posts in random threads about "who should we trade?" and "who fits best together?", so I thought everyone could post their thoughts here and maybe come to a consensus...
That was a joke.
Anyway, here's my take:
1) Smith 3, Moose 4, Drummond 5 simply doesn't work. Smith isn't a good shooter and isn't a particularly good defender on the wing. Monroe and Drummond get in each others' way, forcing Drummond to basically stand on the sideline and look for boards. Smith doesn't seem to cut for Moose's passes, and Moose isn't a cutter for Smith's passes. All in all, it's inefficient offensively and ineffective defensively.
2) Bringing one of the three off the bench isn't realistic. Drummond needs to play to develop, Moose will undoubtedly get pissed and want to leave, and I can't see Josh taking it well long-term either.
3) Both Smith and Monroe are playing out of position. Monroe could develop further into a 4, but he needs a jumper he trusts (I keep seeing 8-16 on midrange, but that's less than ONE shot a game!) and will be limited defensively. Smith is ugly at the 3 for plenty of reasons.
4) Drummond is the one to cater to. His offensive game is certainly limited right now, but he's a potential superstar big. He's definitely the center long-term, and any decisions made should reflect that.
Those are the pre-thoughts. They lead to the conclusion that we really need to trade someone, Moose or Smoove. But who? We're about to reach the date that Smith is tradable. Smith is a known cost at 13.5mil a year for the next four years. Monroe may get anything from around 11 to 15.5mil a year in his next contract, depending on outside offers, and will almost certainly get four years as well.
My choice: Trade Monroe, but don't be in a hurry to do it this month or next.
Why?
1) This sounds arbitrary and it is, but Drummond/Monroe doesn't look functional to me. Sometimes opposite skill sets work well together, and you'd think a capable post passer would work well with an athletic finisher, but it hasn't except for a string of games at the end of last year. A reasonable counterpoint, though, is that if you replaced Smith with a good shooting 3, there would probably be more space for the two bigs to work together. My gut still says "no", but I admit to wavering.
2) I think Monroe has far, far more value than Smith around the league, and since trading one of them seems necessary, it makes more sense to sell Monroe at a good price than Smith at a bad one. Fanbases are hardly a perfect indicator of value, but if Moose can get Otto Porter+ or Batum or Barnes+, it makes sense to move him, because Smith isn't going to return anything close to that.
3) I prefer a defensive identity, and Smith at the 4 is a vastly superior defender to Moose at the 4. Offensively, they're both a bit turnover prone, but they can both work with Drummond, which is my primary concern. The key is getting a starting 3 that can legit stretch the floor. In some sense, it's Smith's weaknesses that make me want to trade Moose, which sounds bizarre but does make some sense.
There are legit concerns about my plan, namely age and thus long-term success, but if (in trade) Monroe becomes a young player that's part of the long-term plan, I don't see that as a problem.
OK, thoughts?
That was a joke.
Anyway, here's my take:
1) Smith 3, Moose 4, Drummond 5 simply doesn't work. Smith isn't a good shooter and isn't a particularly good defender on the wing. Monroe and Drummond get in each others' way, forcing Drummond to basically stand on the sideline and look for boards. Smith doesn't seem to cut for Moose's passes, and Moose isn't a cutter for Smith's passes. All in all, it's inefficient offensively and ineffective defensively.
2) Bringing one of the three off the bench isn't realistic. Drummond needs to play to develop, Moose will undoubtedly get pissed and want to leave, and I can't see Josh taking it well long-term either.
3) Both Smith and Monroe are playing out of position. Monroe could develop further into a 4, but he needs a jumper he trusts (I keep seeing 8-16 on midrange, but that's less than ONE shot a game!) and will be limited defensively. Smith is ugly at the 3 for plenty of reasons.
4) Drummond is the one to cater to. His offensive game is certainly limited right now, but he's a potential superstar big. He's definitely the center long-term, and any decisions made should reflect that.
Those are the pre-thoughts. They lead to the conclusion that we really need to trade someone, Moose or Smoove. But who? We're about to reach the date that Smith is tradable. Smith is a known cost at 13.5mil a year for the next four years. Monroe may get anything from around 11 to 15.5mil a year in his next contract, depending on outside offers, and will almost certainly get four years as well.
My choice: Trade Monroe, but don't be in a hurry to do it this month or next.
Why?
1) This sounds arbitrary and it is, but Drummond/Monroe doesn't look functional to me. Sometimes opposite skill sets work well together, and you'd think a capable post passer would work well with an athletic finisher, but it hasn't except for a string of games at the end of last year. A reasonable counterpoint, though, is that if you replaced Smith with a good shooting 3, there would probably be more space for the two bigs to work together. My gut still says "no", but I admit to wavering.
2) I think Monroe has far, far more value than Smith around the league, and since trading one of them seems necessary, it makes more sense to sell Monroe at a good price than Smith at a bad one. Fanbases are hardly a perfect indicator of value, but if Moose can get Otto Porter+ or Batum or Barnes+, it makes sense to move him, because Smith isn't going to return anything close to that.
3) I prefer a defensive identity, and Smith at the 4 is a vastly superior defender to Moose at the 4. Offensively, they're both a bit turnover prone, but they can both work with Drummond, which is my primary concern. The key is getting a starting 3 that can legit stretch the floor. In some sense, it's Smith's weaknesses that make me want to trade Moose, which sounds bizarre but does make some sense.
There are legit concerns about my plan, namely age and thus long-term success, but if (in trade) Monroe becomes a young player that's part of the long-term plan, I don't see that as a problem.
OK, thoughts?
