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The biggest topic on this board for the past month has been how much Moose is worth and how much Gores should be willing to pay him. Let's get a rough estimate of what we all think Moose is worth per year. (We can assume its a 4 year deal).

How many times are we going to do this lol

Those choices don't work. If you want to pay him 10 million or less, you don't want him around, because there's absolutely no way that's going to happen.

10 million or less is "let him walk or trade him"
10-12 million is "discount or trade him"
12-14 million is "willing to overpay somewhat"
14+ million is "whatever it takes, I love Greg Monroe"

It's all about perspective when it comes to Monroe.

The majority of people on this board (even me at one point) think that Monroe is worth no more than 12-13M.

However, isnt paying Monroe 15-16M the same as paying Monroe 13M and Jerebko or some other terrible bench signing 5M?

All it means for us if we sign Monroe at 15-16M is that we would lose a bench player for around 4-5M. With Joe Dumars horrendous track record recently for bench players (Wilcox, Maxiell, Bynum, Jerebko) it wouldnt be a gigantic loss.

So while I advocated getting rid of Monroe rather than signing him to an extension, I think that we should trade him for a very big piece and if we cant sign him to a deal similar to Boogies and play it by ear (as in play him off the bench with big minutes or trade him on his new deal which gives teams peace of mind since he cant bolt)

I chose 10-12 Million but he will get 12-15 Million.

Monroe should be playing Center somewhere instead of PF. And, Centers are the most prized commodity in the NBA. Thus, if he can be moved for an All-Star caliber SF or SG, then I am all game.

When Monroe was drafted everybody said he was too undersized to play center and we needed to find a big so we could move him to PF. Now, he's too big to be a PF?


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No matter what happens or what the max for Moose is, people have forgotten around here that contracts scale pretty high. So Monroe's contract will never be "omg 14-15million per year" in the first year. It may work out at that number, but to start his contract will always be a lot less than the average of his total contract/year. "I would give him only 12 million I think." Good, that is where his max will start anyway. Now get over it. Sure it will go up to like over 16 at some point, but that isn't the issue.

ComboGuardCity wrote:When Monroe was drafted everybody said he was too undersized to play center and we needed to find a big so we could move him to PF. Now, he's too big to be a PF?


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Yes & also let me think.. oh the worst defender in the history of the NBA, has the worst hands in the history of the nba, is the most un clutch player in the history of the NBA, ummm what else...

I cant remember what else some have said about him but I bet hes the worst in the history of the NBA at the things im forgetting too.

Clarity wrote:
Yes & also let me think.. oh the worst defender in the history of the NBA, has the worst hands in the history of the nba, is the most un clutch player in the history of the NBA, ummm what else...

I cant remember what else some have said about him but I bet hes the worst in the history of the NBA at the things im forgetting too.

You are wrong! Amare Stoudemire is the worst Defensive Big Man in the history of the NBA and Charlie Villanueva is the second worst.

Ibaka is getting paid about 12 mil per, and puts up roughly the same production with better defense. So 10-12 mil. Until he can show a consistent mid range jumper and better defense.

BadMofoPimp wrote:Monroe should be playing Center somewhere instead of PF. And, Centers are the most prized commodity in the NBA. Thus, if he can be moved for an All-Star caliber SF or SG, then I am all game.

If you can get an All-Star SF or SG for him, grab it immediately. I'd be surprised if they can get that much...but then again I don't think much of Monroe. Very frustrating player to watch.

DonVitoReturns wrote:

BadMofoPimp wrote:Monroe should be playing Center somewhere instead of PF. And, Centers are the most prized commodity in the NBA. Thus, if he can be moved for an All-Star caliber SF or SG, then I am all game.

If you can get an All-Star SF or SG for him, grab it immediately. I'd be surprised if they can get that much...but then again I don't think much of Monroe. Very frustrating player to watch.

Sell him as a Center to other teams and someone will bite.

Okay, here's a question (and please try to be honest and use as little revisionist history as possible) — what would you have wanted to pay Roy Hibbert in the summer of 2012? He was coming off an All-Star season where he averaged 12.8 points, 8.8 rebounds, 2.0 blocks, and had established himself as a defensive force. Honestly, forget about the low end of the $12M – $15M option … would you have clamored to give him a max contract? 'Cuz Portland did (or tried to), and the Pacers matched it. It doesn't matter what we want to pay Greg Monroe; the only opinions that matter are those of the 30 NBA GMs, and it only takes one of them with available cap space to decide he's worth a max deal to set his market price as such (Washington, I'm looking in your general direction). What we want to pay him and feel he's worth is an interesting discussion, but also a pointless one; does anyone on these boards actually believe he and his agent will ever accept a deal starting at less than $12M?

DocRI wrote:does anyone on these boards actually believe he and his agent will ever accept a deal starting at less than $12M?

I do because Josh Smith was supposed to get Max money somewhere and had to settle for $12 per.

DocRI wrote:Okay, here's a question (and please try to be honest and use as little revisionist history as possible) — what would you have wanted to pay Roy Hibbert in the summer of 2012? He was coming off an All-Star season where he averaged 12.8 points, 8.8 rebounds, 2.0 blocks, and had established himself as a defensive force. Honestly, forget about the low end of the $12M – $15M option … would you have clamored to give him a max contract? 'Cuz Portland did (or tried to), and the Pacers matched it. It doesn't matter what we want to pay Greg Monroe; the only opinions that matter are those of the 30 NBA GMs, and it only takes one of them with available cap space to decide he's worth a max deal to set his market price as such (Washington, I'm looking in your general direction). What we want to pay him and feel he's worth is an interesting discussion, but also a pointless one; does anyone on these boards actually believe he and his agent will ever accept a deal starting at less than $12M?

All these are fair points. I do think its going to come down to a sign and trade, or paying Monroe the max. Though I don't think hes worth it. I can remember there was some surprise when Hibbert got a max offer. Big men always get overpaid in the open market.

DocRI wrote:Okay, here's a question (and please try to be honest and use as little revisionist history as possible) — what would you have wanted to pay Roy Hibbert in the summer of 2012? He was coming off an All-Star season where he averaged 12.8 points, 8.8 rebounds, 2.0 blocks, and had established himself as a defensive force. Honestly, forget about the low end of the $12M – $15M option … would you have clamored to give him a max contract? 'Cuz Portland did (or tried to), and the Pacers matched it. It doesn't matter what we want to pay Greg Monroe; the only opinions that matter are those of the 30 NBA GMs, and it only takes one of them with available cap space to decide he's worth a max deal to set his market price as such (Washington, I'm looking in your general direction). What we want to pay him and feel he's worth is an interesting discussion, but also a pointless one; does anyone on these boards actually believe he and his agent will ever accept a deal starting at less than $12M?

Hibbert had great defensive potential at the time but was still a big question mark, no way would I have been willing to pay him that kind of money. Monroe is not and does not have the potential to be a huge force on either end of the floor, good offensive player, sure, but not the potential to be that much of a difference maker. He doesn't have the tools to be an ideal fit next to our future franchise player, and his presence is also hindering having our best player imo playing his best position. I completely agree that his value to us will be determined by other teams offers and because of all these things I feel we have to trade him before the deadline. If he were willing to accept 4 years $40M to come off the bench then I would consider keeping him around and he would earn every penny of that I'm sure but that's not going to happen. If we didn't have Drummond I would say pay him what it takes to keep him here and a Moose/Smith frontcourt would be pretty damn good but that's not the case so...

DocRI wrote:Okay, here's a question (and please try to be honest and use as little revisionist history as possible) — what would you have wanted to pay Roy Hibbert in the summer of 2012? He was coming off an All-Star season where he averaged 12.8 points, 8.8 rebounds, 2.0 blocks, and had established himself as a defensive force. Honestly, forget about the low end of the $12M – $15M option … would you have clamored to give him a max contract? 'Cuz Portland did (or tried to), and the Pacers matched it. It doesn't matter what we want to pay Greg Monroe; the only opinions that matter are those of the 30 NBA GMs, and it only takes one of them with available cap space to decide he's worth a max deal to set his market price as such (Washington, I'm looking in your general direction). What we want to pay him and feel he's worth is an interesting discussion, but also a pointless one; does anyone on these boards actually believe he and his agent will ever accept a deal starting at less than $12M?

The point of my thread was actually alluded to by sfballa. If you believe Monroe is worth 10-12 mill, you should have no qualms giving him the max that starts at 14. The cap hit is negligible and means we lose out on the next Jonas Jerebko which really is not a loss. Hopefully it shows those who don't want to give him the max that it's ok and it's not the end of the team.


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Monroe is getting the max. Everyone knows we aren't giving him the max. Trades will start flowing this week so we should have an idea where he will end up soon.

sc8581 wrote:

DocRI wrote:Okay, here's a question (and please try to be honest and use as little revisionist history as possible) — what would you have wanted to pay Roy Hibbert in the summer of 2012? He was coming off an All-Star season where he averaged 12.8 points, 8.8 rebounds, 2.0 blocks, and had established himself as a defensive force. Honestly, forget about the low end of the $12M – $15M option … would you have clamored to give him a max contract? 'Cuz Portland did (or tried to), and the Pacers matched it. It doesn't matter what we want to pay Greg Monroe; the only opinions that matter are those of the 30 NBA GMs, and it only takes one of them with available cap space to decide he's worth a max deal to set his market price as such (Washington, I'm looking in your general direction). What we want to pay him and feel he's worth is an interesting discussion, but also a pointless one; does anyone on these boards actually believe he and his agent will ever accept a deal starting at less than $12M?

Hibbert had great defensive potential at the time but was still a big question mark, no way would I have been willing to pay him that kind of money. Monroe is not and does not have the potential to be a huge force on either end of the floor, good offensive player, sure, but not the potential to be that much of a difference maker. He doesn't have the tools to be an ideal fit next to our future franchise player, and his presence is also hindering having our best player imo playing his best position. I completely agree that his value to us will be determined by other teams offers and because of all these things I feel we have to trade him before the deadline. If he were willing to accept 4 years $40M to come off the bench then I would consider keeping him around and he would earn every penny of that I'm sure but that's not going to happen. If we didn't have Drummond I would say pay him what it takes to keep him here and a Moose/Smith frontcourt would be pretty damn good but that's not the case so...

I'm in a little bit of a snarky mood so apologies in advance

DocRI is spot on. I think this board has a big case of 'The grass is greener' syndrome. If Monroe were on another team playing like he is now and we had a void at PF we would be screaming to sign him for max dollars.

It's true we have Smith to play PF. He finally had ONE game where he didn't chuck awful shots all over the place. But in Monroe we are talking about a 15 and 10 guy who's now averaging *slightly* less with the introduction of two ball hogs... errr.. volume shooters and another huge man child putting up 13.5 and pulling down close to 13 boards a night too.

It's still true that he has a size / skill combination that is rare in the NBA. For that reason demand brings his price to max dollars.

My priorities would be:
1. Develop and resign Drummond
2. Keep Monroe

I think it's highly unlikely we can get rid of cancer err.. Smith in any reasonable way. I don't know if it's possible to sign Monroe to a Max deal and Keep Drummond. So if I had to make a choice it would be to keep Drummond. Seeing Monroe walk away would make me sad because it would be such a wasted opportunity for a franchise to develop.