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Joe Dumars Has backed himself into a corner, into a pile of doo...:

- Year before last he could claim new ownership and absentee previous ownership.

- Last year he could claim the draft steal of the decade, but a coach that wouldn't play him. That's why the coach went, but he didn't.

- This year, he's given himself nowhere to run to, and nowhere to hide.

He had two Olympic tryout bigs that needed to be surrounded by high IQ passers and shooters, and a strategic (smart) coach or pg. Everybody knew this going into the summer.

He gave them Cheeks, Smith, and Jennings.

- Cheeks came in with a losing record and a rep as a players coach (the opposite of high strategy/high iq coach that will enforce his will).

- Smith was known as a low-iq chucker EVEN AS A PF playing next to a quality big and the best 3 point shooter in the league. He brought him in to play of position. Smith wasn't wanted by Atlanta or anyone else, IN HIS POSITION. He's good at paint defense and paint scoring, that's it. If a coach can keep him in the paint, he'll be good.

- Jennings is known for being inefficient and taking bad shots. Jennings can pass, hit some 3s, and Jennings is young and talented enough to be molded (by a good coach), but he's not yet a strategic leader.

If nothing changes, Joe Dumars has failed this season. The Pistons were headed for 3rd in the East as their talent dictates they should have been (and I predicted they would)... but Cheeks reluctance to execute winning strategy has them on a losing streak.

Joe Dumars made the bed. If he lays in it, he'll get fired. WHAT WILL JOE DUMARS DO?

We should see who wins the poll within 21 days.

Cheeks has to know what strategy is to be able to execute it. He lets them play like it's street ball. I suppose that kind of crude game plan can work in OKC, where you have two top 10 players, but not in Detroit by a long shot.

ImHeisenberg wrote:Cheeks has to know what strategy is to be able to execute it. He lets them play like it's street ball. I suppose that kind of crude game plan can work in OKC, where you have two top 10 players, but not in Detroit by a long shot.

True. He said he doesn't have any insight though...

Do you think Joe will give him the insight, or fire him and find a coach that has it?

Or maybe Joe doesn't have the insight either, and he'll eventually get fired?

Vote in the poll and let us know what you think.

Just for the record...

My vote is for A. I think he's too cool with his homies to fire Cheeks or trade them. He knows doing nothing is suicide.

I think he will force Cheeks to change the lineup so teams can't pack the paint.

One of the big 3 is either coming off the bench, or will be a ceremonial starter (1st 4 minutes of game).

if he finds a way to do dumber things, he will do it.

C. Trade Monroe. If he fires Cheeks, no coach will ever want to come here again unless it's a no name type. If smith is sent to the bench the lockerroom turmoil will get out of control. Drummond is the only player that kinda/sorta draws attention to this lousy team so he'll continue to start. That leaves Monroe, if you bench him, you'll get even less in return so he'll continue to start until one day a new SF shows up and it takes us 10 games to realize we got screwed in the deal.

Also, I miss the days before the season started when we many here, including myself, thought about this team surprising us and winning a playoff series.

pistontr wrote:if he finds a way to do dumber things, he will do it.

Piston Pete wrote:

pistontr wrote:if he finds a way to do dumber things, he will do it.

THIS ^^

he's gonna trade Josh Smith, KCP, and 2 future 1sts for Melo...

we're gonna get slightly better but Melo and Jennings are gonna hate each other for whatever reason, Cheeks wont be able to do anything about it cuz his personality is weak for his position, the locker will divide but we still make the playoffs as a 7/8 seed and get blown out by Indy or Miami. Melo walks in the offseason, Dumars fired and we hire a GM who hopefully builds from our strength - the twin towers of Moose and Dre...

vic wrote:

ImHeisenberg wrote:Cheeks has to know what strategy is to be able to execute it. He lets them play like it's street ball. I suppose that kind of crude game plan can work in OKC, where you have two top 10 players, but not in Detroit by a long shot.

True. He said he doesn't have any insight though...

Do you think Joe will give him the insight, or fire him and find a coach that has it?

Or maybe Joe doesn't have the insight either, and he'll eventually get fired?

Vote in the poll and let us know what you think.

I don't believe Dumars would fire him mid-season. That's relatively rare to see. Mike Brown after a couple games last year, and Eddie Jordan in Philly a few years back after his Princeton offense was recognized as a total failure.

But, canning a coach mid-season is essentially throwing the season away. Dumars can't afford to do that. Cheek may very well be fired at the end of the season if this trend continues without massive improvement, but Dumars probably won't be employed long enough to do it himself.

russkopp wrote:C. Trade Monroe. If he fires Cheeks, no coach will ever want to come here again unless it's a no name type.

I don't believe that for a minute. You are aware that there is only 30 NBA head coaching jobs on the entire planet right? There will always be competition for openings, regardless of how unappealing the roster or management may look.

Additionally, I wouldn't count on Dumars heading this ship much longer. That leash is getting tighter and tighter around his neck.

Cheeks has always been known as an offensive coach that runs very good offenses but doesnt play much defense. Im just not sure you can fire the coach for his players missing open jumpshots. The offense needs to run through Monroe. If Monroe was an elite FG% scorer and commanded double teams his offense would be fine.

ImHeisenberg wrote:

russkopp wrote:C. Trade Monroe. If he fires Cheeks, no coach will ever want to come here again unless it's a no name type.

I don't believe that for a minute. You are aware that there is only 30 NBA head coaching jobs on the entire planet right? There will always be competition for openings, regardless of how unappealing the roster or management may look.

Additionally, I wouldn't count on Dumars heading this ship much longer. That leash is getting tighter and tighter around his neck.

While this is very much true, one cannot fail to realize that the quality of options will go down. Sure we could hand out the head coaching job to some random coach (aka the one we have right now), but what legitimate coach is going to come to our team? They basically know that they have no leash and will be given no time to produce. That is not the most prestigious position to be in.

He's going to trade KCP for another PF. And try to have the PF play SG.

You think I'm joking.........

Just wanted to throw this out here because it's hilarious. The announced attendance for Sunday's game was over...14,000 hahahaha

Maybe if you total the attendance for the whole season.

rock digger wrote:

ImHeisenberg wrote:

russkopp wrote:C. Trade Monroe. If he fires Cheeks, no coach will ever want to come here again unless it's a no name type.

I don't believe that for a minute. You are aware that there is only 30 NBA head coaching jobs on the entire planet right? There will always be competition for openings, regardless of how unappealing the roster or management may look.

Additionally, I wouldn't count on Dumars heading this ship much longer. That leash is getting tighter and tighter around his neck.

While this is very much true, one cannot fail to realize that the quality of options will go down. Sure we could hand out the head coaching job to some random coach (aka the one we have right now), but what legitimate coach is going to come to our team? They basically know that they have no leash and will be given no time to produce. That is not the most prestigious position to be in.

How many top tier coaches are available? How many are there in general? Greg Popovich is a great coach. After that it gets muddy. Phil Jackson and Scott Brooks win a lot of games, but they coach/ed hall of fame players, take them away and how good are they?

I'd make an argument for Lionel Hollins being a very good HC, but I guess Dumars felt Cheeks is the better of the candidates.

Point being- if Cheeks, and Dumars are canned, I don't think the coaching stigma that you believe exists will continue to be an issue.

Well, I went with D and clearly I'm not alone in my pessimism, as the only other pick with more than 2 votes is the OTHER pessimistic outcome.

pessimism is understandable.
self-preservation is understandable too.

Hopefully we'll see within 21 days.

I think there are a lot of college coaches that could do it.
Joe sees how Boston is overperforming, Orlando has overperformed a bit, Phoenix, etc...

vic wrote:
I think he will force Cheeks to change the lineup so teams can't pack the paint.

One of the big 3 is either coming off the bench, or will be a ceremonial starter (1st 4 minutes of game).

The latter idea is basically what they are already doing know. Dre comes out at the 6 min mark usually

I agree that bringing one off the bench could help, but its for defensive reasons, not offense. It would help to have a more athletic PF like Smith instead, to guard all these jumpshooting 4s that Monroe can't guard. Plus, with Smith at PF, he will spend more time close to the basket, so we can better advantage of his shotblocking skills. Then having a smaller guy at the 3 like Singler would make it easier to chase these smaller guys around the perimeter at that position.

Offensively though, if we don't have shooters on the roster, then it doesn't matter who you start, or how much a team packs in the paint. If you can't shoot, then can't you shoot. Its not like we haven't had lineups on the court with just 2/3 bigs. We play stretches every game with just Dre on the court even, and it doesn't make a difference because we have no shooters around him.

When a team packs in the paint, their goal is to make you into a jumpshooting team. The solution isn't to put more bad shooters on the court and take more jumpshots. No matter how good of shooters you have, you can't just sit and lauch jumpshots all game and expect to win consistently that way.

The problem on offense isn't that teams are packing in the paint, its that we are just giving into it and settling for jumpshots, instead of moving the ball side to side and moving bodies around to combat it.

Right now when one of our bigs get it in the post, everyone else just stands still. Then the double comes and he passes it out to the nearest open bad shooter, who is forced to launch a jumpshot, because no one else is moving to get open.

You don't have to do that though just because the paint is packed in. When the defense is all bunched up on the post man on the strong side, you get that ball moving around faster, and you can reverse to the big on weak side for an open dunk. But guys have to be moving around for it to work. All this lazy standing around is what is resulting in us settling for all these jumpshots lately, not because the paint is packed in. Changing lineups won't do anything on that front, if they are going to play the same way.

I would do it though anyways, and just go with Drummond and Smith, because of the advantages defensively, and also you have to think replacing Monroe's slow self with Singler's active self could get our activity level up on offense a little more, in terms of bodies/ball movement. And I think that is what Joe would try first of all those options.