Trade Something I'm Giving Up On You

[Spider156]

I was a big Dumars supporter. I thought he pulled off something incredible in the off-season but it backfired. I do believe how we play in the next month will determine the fate of Dumars and Cheeks or some of the players' fate. I for one, will not feel bad if Dumars is fired. This organization has given him way too much time to correct his mistakes. I do believe that he made the right decisions except for coaching. It's just too bad he could never get the right coach. I think ultimately that was Dumars's downfall from the get go since firing Carlisle. Brown was the easiest call to hire. The rest of the coaches he's hired are garbage. Barring an amazing trade coming soon, I can say that I've given up on Dumars. I've been a long time supporter of his.

Unfortunately, this is what I see happening. Dumars finds another job quickly and makes that team better instantly. We get stuck with a bad GM and stay stagnant for a couple of years. Drummond leaves us. We start rebuilding from scratch again.

[theBigLip]

I agree the coaching hires have been weak. We actually have more talent than last year, and I wasn't worried about Cheeks so much when I knew we would have Sheed and Billups around. But constantly getting beat in the 4th quarter is coaching. Dumars - see ya. Cheeks - see ya. Time to start something new.

[DBC10]

If we trade Moose, trade Smith too. Makes no sense to have a slashing bigman that refuses to post up and settle for jumpers instead.

[ImHeisenberg]

You're a trooper, Spider. I've wanted Dumbars fired for years now. He's outlasted his stay.

And honestly, if Gores retains Dumars beyond this season, I may have to throw the towel in for a while, because this team will never have the resources necessary to even be a competent team while he's in charge, much less a title contender.

[ImHeisenberg]

If we trade Moose, trade Smith too. Makes no sense to have a slashing bigman that refuses to post up and settle for jumpers instead.

But that's trying to mask a symptom, DBC. It's not finding a cure. Trading anyone for anyone won't make a difference. They'll just be a new face on a rudderless ship, crashing into the shore.

[vic]

Joe is pretty much gone unless he undoes his mistakes.

His strengths and weaknesses are so consistent, but his weaknesses are outweighing his strengths as other teams become smarter.

Joe's weakness is his undervaluing of analytical decision making and high IQ players. Its gotten so bad to the point where high IQ players avoid coming here.

Calderon didn't want to come back
Iggy didn't want to come
No high level coaches wanted to come here
Monroe is getting more pissed by the day

He gives millions to Josh Smith, Jennings, and Coach Cheeks, two known low-iq players and a subpar coach. And now he's about to trade his most efficient, olympic tryout level PF...

He's set up an anti-IQ, anti analytics organization, and its a basketball titanic.

Its only going to get worse until he has the balls to backup and change his mistakes, not make dumber mistakes by trading the better players and keeping the low- IQ ones.

Also he could fire the coach and bring Frank back or a college coach with a good record and some smarts...

[DBC10]

If we trade Moose, trade Smith too. Makes no sense to have a slashing bigman that refuses to post up and settle for jumpers instead.

But that's trying to mask a symptom, DBC. It's not finding a cure. Trading anyone for anyone won't make a difference. They'll just be a new face on a rudderless ship, crashing into the shore.

And you're right. I was mostly being facetious against those who say the team will magically get better if Smith plays his natural position.

It makes me laugh especially on the offensive side of things less than the defensive side.

[DBC10]

Joe is pretty much gone unless he undoes his mistakes.

His strengths and weaknesses are so consistent, but his weaknesses are outweighing his strengths as other teams become smarter.

Joe's weakness is his undervaluing of analytical decision making and high IQ players. Its gotten so bad to the point where high IQ players avoid coming here.

Calderon didn't want to come back
Iggy didn't want to come
No high level coaches wanted to come here
Monroe is getting more pissed by the day

He gives millions to Josh Smith, Jennings, and Coach Cheeks, two known low-iq players and a subpar coach. And now he's about to trade his most efficient, olympic tryout level PF...

He's set up an anti-IQ, anti analytics organization, and its a basketball titanic.

Its only going to get worse until he has the balls to backup and change his mistakes, not make dumber mistakes by trading the better players and keeping the low- IQ ones.

Also he could fire the coach and bring Frank back or a college coach with a good record and some smarts...

Don't remind me. I hate what happened this summer. So awful and will set us back for at least 2 more years.

[captainrebel]

Sometimes we have to admit out mistakes, swallow our pride and try to correct them if it is possible to do so. Joe Dumars has made quite a few mistakes as a GM and has failed to admit or try to correct them in timely fashion. I, however have to give him credit for moving Brandon Knight (not saying Knight was the wrong pick) though I am not too thrilled with Jennings. That trade is just about a wash. As for the Smith, Monroe, Drummond experiment we all know where that has gotten us. Though easier said than done, one of Monroe and Smith should take one for the team and come off the bench; maybe alternate games or according to match-ups. To be truthful, the ‘big 3’ experiment has me so frustrated I’m thinking why the hell not just give Josh away? Send him and JJ to Knicks for Amare and a 1st like…10 years down the road. Yes…10 years! Who cares anymore? (I don’t know if it would work financially) Start Drummond, Monroe, Singler, KCP and Jennings and see where it goes. The pick to the Bobcats should have been better protected but I guess Joe was counting on all the round pegs would fit snugly into the square holes.

[Piston Pete]

Smith/Jennings/Monroe/Singler to Boston for Rondo/Green/Sullinger/Faverani


They become:

Jennings / Bayless
Bradley / Bogans
Wallace / Singler
Smith / Bass / KHump
Monroe / KHump / Olynyk


We become:

Rondo
KCP
Green
Sullinger
Drummond

[paQo the BAWSER]

we are better team with smith as PF, because his defense and he's got less long jumpers, but agree with that, smith isn't a good fit to play next to drummond. We need something like Ryan Anderson, Ilyasova or Kevin Love ( )

[Spider156]

Kevin Love will go to the Lakers. Really a better player is Aldridge but that's not possible. I can see Smith playing well at PF next to Drummond. Why? Because it's not like Smith can't shoot at all. He's bad at shooting. But he'll make some shots. So he can "stretch" the floor at times. With KCP and another wing player say Harrison Barnes, Drummond should be able to dominate more inside. Of course, I'd love to get Rondo as he's a proven championship player to come here. He's not a great shooter but will make the open shot. Now having Rondo with two players that can finish inside and two wing players that can shoot, it's a great fit. All there really needs to happen is to give up Monroe and Jennings for Rondo. I'd trade Stuckey away and take Wallace as well. I don't have a problem with that. Wallace is a mature veteran and won't provide the leadership we need but the maturity we need. I DO believe this trade can be done. I just hope Ainge won't get a better deal than that for Rondo. I really do hope that's what Dumars is waiting for, Rondo. If not, he really needs to go!

IF this trade is to happen, I can imagine Dumars being let go after this season as his contract ends. Another GM comes in and the coach walks away. This situation is very possible and I hope it happens.

With that said, I don't get the hate for Jennings. I think he's done a fantastic job. He's playing better than ever. Don't blame him. Blame the person who got him here. In my opinion, his contract is very trade-able. I actually think he has positive value.

[Warspite]

1. Why does Dumars have to make a drastic move 40 games into a 3 yr plan? I know most here that want to trade Monroe think they can get a top 5 SF for him but that simply isnt true if Dumars has to make a move. The Wizards are interested and although Pistons fans want Beal they most likely will be offered Ariza.

2. How does Dumars turn this team into a contender by trading Moose?

Monroe will have more value in the summer and even more next summer. IMHO this is like selling a stock low and then useing the money to buy lottery tickets.

[Clarity]

I was a big Dumars supporter. I thought he pulled off something incredible in the off-season but it backfired.

I feel bad that some of you actually thought this.

There was absolutely zero reason to think this based on history but I still feel bad.

[SambFTW]

Sang the title in my head. lol

[dVs33]

This offseason was the first time i lost confidence in Dumars.
I didn't like the smith signing. I hated the jennings trade and i didn't know enough about Cheeks to judge him fairly, but at the time the move wasn't exactly confidence inspiring.
After seeing what this team is like and looking at potential trades (monroe), i'm reluctantly on the goodbye dumars train.

He used to valued "high character guys". You'd hear that in every single one of his interviews. Then he goes out and signs Smith and Jennings. Two guys that have shown bad attitudes in the past and low bball IQs to go with their big egos. He then tried to defend his choices by saying guys with "edge" have and can make it in detroit, but stupidity isn't "edge"

Now I admit, i was kind of wrong about Jennings. He has been pretty solid this year, but his shooting and shot selection is still horrible and his defense has been pretty bad too. I don't know if him surprising me is because of his actual production or if my expectations were so low. Maybe it's both.
Smith has definitely disappointed. regardless of his position, he is constantly jacking up bad shots and he's lazy on D, especially on the perimeter. Like i said, i didn't like the signing, but i was still optimistic that if Smith played the right way his talent would make up for the lack of roster balance, but i was very wrong.

Cheeks has been pretty bad. He doesnt seem to reward players playing well, but certain guys get away with bad play time and time again. His lineups at times are just mind boggling. He's been disappointing.

And now i'm affraid Monroe is going to be either traded for lesser value or signed by another team for nothing and we'll be stuck with Smith for the rest of his contract. If that is the case im done with Dumars.

[Clarity]

Sang the title in my head. lol

same lol

[princeofpalace]

I was initially in favor of the Smith signing because, I thought the rotation would look more like this

SF: Smith(17)/FA SF (30)
PF: Monroe(22)/Smith(16)
C: Drummond(35)/Monroe(13)

I didn't mind Jennings so much because Knight was and still is a terrible PG. But the signing of Billups, resigning of Bynum, gambling on Datome were detrimental to us- we shouldve signed some shooters and moved Stuckey. Instead, we have a very unbalanced roster. Still, I think we should attempt to move Billups/Bynum/Stuckey/CV for some productive shooters who can play D to round out our roster.

Cheeks rolling with ridiculous lineups like Bynum-Stuckey-Smith-Monroe-Drummond is obviously no way to win games since there is zero guys capable of spreading the floor. Right or wrong, I think we will see Joe look to bolster up his backcourt before he makes any changes to the frontcourt.

I still believe in the Stuckey for Ariza trade. I would also like to flip Bynum for a guy who can actually play PG and spread the floor as opposed to Will, who can't do either of those things.

I strongly dislike Josh Smith- but I think Cheeks has a hardon for him and gives him a long leash when he should be reigning him in. There is no reason why Josh should continue to play 35+ minutes in games when he is shooting 30% with many TO's while Drummond and Monroe rot on the bench. A simple reduction in Smith's minutes, and a mandate for him to shoot less and we win more games IMO but instead Cheeks gives Smith enough rope to hang himself and our team.

I also think that Joe D adding Jennings and Smith, both low IQ players with inconsistent effort to our young team was bad for the lockeroom. I hope to God that Monroe/Drummond/KCP don't look to those guys as leaders.

[Piston Pete]

The team has been in a mess dating back to the Iverson trade. Man, that seems like forever ago....

[ImHeisenberg]

The team has been in a mess dating back to the Iverson trade. Man, that seems like forever ago....

That is truly where it all went wrong. Letting Ben Wallace go over a couple million was dumb as well. He could have given this team at least two more legit title runs. But, the Billups for Iverson deal truly marked the end for this team, and it still hasn't recovered from it. The Ben Gordon trade's pick still looms over this season like a dark cloud.