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Think about it, if we finish at 9 or 10th, there's slight chance to win the lottery. And even if we don't win the lottery, 9-10th pick goes to Charlotte. That is much better scenario.

Imagine if we finish at 8-7th this year, keep 8th pick, and next year, we finish around 8th again and win the lottery and assume it's become 2nd or 3rd pick, and the 2nd pick goes to Charlotte.
This is much worse.

Tank strategy doesn't apply to us unless our pick this year (the player we will acquire) will drastically improve our performance next year.
When I'm reading the "tank" posts here, I wonder how many people really understand our real situation.

Let's discuss.



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Your logic assumes that the Pistons automatically have a better pick next year. You're also making assumptions about a draft class in 2015 that we don't know much about, beyond Okafor and a couple other early stand outs.

I'm at peace with whatever the outcome is- but your logic is as flimsy as the cloud you rode in here on.

Pancakes and cupcakes are differnt

the pick is top 8 protected next year as well, it's in 2016 where it becomes unprotected.

according to nbadraft.net, that is.

We should have a better record next season though because:

1. Drummond will be a year older and a year better
2. Internal improvement for young guys like Monroe, KCP and Singler
3. This year's draft pick should positively contribute
4. The new GM will do something about relocating Smith and possibly Jennings
5. A new coach (hopefully in the Hollins/Izzo class)

That's why it makes sense to get a pick in a loaded draft this year and look to convey a mid-first rounder next year.

whitehops wrote:the pick is top 8 protected next year as well, it's in 2016 where it becomes unprotected.

according to nbadraft.net, that is.

It's top 1 protected next season and unprotected in 2016.

Mr Peanut wrote:

whitehops wrote:the pick is top 8 protected next year as well, it's in 2016 where it becomes unprotected.

according to nbadraft.net, that is.

It's top 1 protected next season and unprotected in 2016.

yeah it's weird, on nbadraft.net when you look at the mock they have on the main page it says top 8 protected this year and next, but when you click on the draft notes page it says what you said.

Mr Peanut wrote:We should have a better record next season though because:

1. Drummond will be a year older and a year better
2. Internal improvement for young guys like Monroe, KCP and Singler
3. This year's draft pick should positively contribute
4. The new GM will do something about relocating Smith and possibly Jennings
5. A new coach (hopefully in the Hollins/Izzo class)

That's why it makes sense to get a pick in a loaded draft this year and look to convey a mid-first rounder next year.

You are assuming a whole lot there:

1. Just because a player gets a year older doesn't mean they automatically get better.
2. See #1
3. Draft picks are a crapshoot and even if we somehow keep our pick this year, it's not going to be an impact player anyway.
4. There is no guarantee that another GM will want to (or be able to) trade Smith or Jennings.
5. Hollins possibly (I'm still not sold he is the cure-everything here), Izzo... total failure, don't even joke about that.

Iam calling it now,the league is tired of this once great franchaise being talked about like were the bucks,cavs,etc,so they came to gores and said look we will gift you a 1st this draft and you can turn it around like chi did but you have to fire joe and get a compotent GM and coach in there.










Oh yea they hire bill lambier at either position.

imagump1313 wrote:

Mr Peanut wrote:We should have a better record next season though because:

1. Drummond will be a year older and a year better
2. Internal improvement for young guys like Monroe, KCP and Singler
3. This year's draft pick should positively contribute
4. The new GM will do something about relocating Smith and possibly Jennings
5. A new coach (hopefully in the Hollins/Izzo class)

That's why it makes sense to get a pick in a loaded draft this year and look to convey a mid-first rounder next year.

You are assuming a whole lot there:

1. Just because a player gets a year older doesn't mean they automatically get better.
2. See #1
3. Draft picks are a crapshoot and even if we somehow keep our pick this year, it's not going to be an impact player anyway.
4. There is no guarantee that another GM will want to (or be able to) trade Smith or Jennings.
5. Hollins possibly (I'm still not sold he is the cure-everything here), Izzo... total failure, don't even joke about that.

Good points here. Look at this Pistons roster- most of those guys haven't shown a year to year improvement at all. If anything, a regression in Detroit.

Also, a rookie can't be automatically relied to make a significant contribution. Case in point- KCP.

Additionally, I agree that Hollins isn't the panacea this team desperately believes a coach can be. One more thing, people; Please stop believing Tom Izzo is going to leave the Spartans for one second, that's absolute BS. He would be a fool to do so. And, if you think he would leave, you apparently have no concept of the term "job security".

ImHeisenberg wrote:

imagump1313 wrote:

Mr Peanut wrote:We should have a better record next season though because:

1. Drummond will be a year older and a year better
2. Internal improvement for young guys like Monroe, KCP and Singler
3. This year's draft pick should positively contribute
4. The new GM will do something about relocating Smith and possibly Jennings
5. A new coach (hopefully in the Hollins/Izzo class)

That's why it makes sense to get a pick in a loaded draft this year and look to convey a mid-first rounder next year.

You are assuming a whole lot there:

1. Just because a player gets a year older doesn't mean they automatically get better.
2. See #1
3. Draft picks are a crapshoot and even if we somehow keep our pick this year, it's not going to be an impact player anyway.
4. There is no guarantee that another GM will want to (or be able to) trade Smith or Jennings.
5. Hollins possibly (I'm still not sold he is the cure-everything here), Izzo... total failure, don't even joke about that.

Good points here. Look at this Pistons roster- most of those guys haven't shown a year to year improvement at all. If anything, a regression in Detroit.

Also, a rookie can't be automatically relied to make a significant contribution. Case in point- KCP.

Additionally, I agree that Hollins isn't the panacea this team desperately believes a coach can be. One more thing, people; Please stop believing Tom Izzo is going to leave the Spartans for one second, that's absolute BS. He would be a fool to do so. And, if you think he would leave, you apparently have no concept of the term "job security".

We'll have to disagree that Monroe hasn't gotten better.

Phenomenonsense wrote:We'll have to disagree that Monroe hasn't gotten better.

I don't know if he necessarily thinks that - he said most players, not all.

imagump1313 wrote:

Mr Peanut wrote:We should have a better record next season though because:

1. Drummond will be a year older and a year better
2. Internal improvement for young guys like Monroe, KCP and Singler
3. This year's draft pick should positively contribute
4. The new GM will do something about relocating Smith and possibly Jennings
5. A new coach (hopefully in the Hollins/Izzo class)

That's why it makes sense to get a pick in a loaded draft this year and look to convey a mid-first rounder next year.

You are assuming a whole lot there:

1. Just because a player gets a year older doesn't mean they automatically get better.
2. See #1
3. Draft picks are a crapshoot and even if we somehow keep our pick this year, it's not going to be an impact player anyway.
4. There is no guarantee that another GM will want to (or be able to) trade Smith or Jennings.
5. Hollins possibly (I'm still not sold he is the cure-everything here), Izzo... total failure, don't even joke about that.

Like the OP is assuming we are going to be about the same next year?

OK, I can't say with absolute certainty that a 20-year-old Drummond will be better next season, but I can say it is more likely than not that he will be. Monroe, KCP and Singler are in the same boat but with a lower ceiling (anyone who doesn't think Monroe has been improving is a stat-fanatic and doesn't watch games).

I disagree that we won't be able to get an impact player in this draft, it is very top-heavy and if we are drafting in the top 8 we should get someone who can immediately contribute to the rotation.

Also the writing is on the wall if Dumars is not re-signed that Gores isn't a fan of our 2013 FA signings, and you'd expect there to be some movement on that front by whoever he hires.

whitehops wrote:

Phenomenonsense wrote:We'll have to disagree that Monroe hasn't gotten better.

I don't know if he necessarily thinks that - he said most players, not all.

I didn't cite any specific players. Monroe is still relatively young. But, how much has Stuckey developed? Has Josh Smith at his apex now that he's in the "prime" of his career? Is Brandon Jennings notably better than he was as a rookie? Villanueva has gotten progressively worse since coming to Detroit.

The point was- age does not automatically equate to being a better player.

Mr Peanut wrote:Also the writing is on the wall if Dumars is not re-signed that Gores isn't a fan of our 2013 FA signings, and you'd expect there to be some movement on that front by whoever he hires.

I don't recall seeing anywhere where Gores said he wasn't a fan of the FA signings. Again I think you are assuming alot. The only thing I've seen him say is that he thought they should be winning more games. To me that sounds like he thinks he has the players he wants, but they were not being coached properly.
Remember he was the one who demanded playoffs this year. If he really thought the FA signings were bad (even though he doesn't know anything about basketball) I doubt if he would be demanding this.

I really don't think Gores has the ability to even know if they were good signings or not. He just writes the checks. People seem to put way too much emphasis on Gores making basketball decisions which would be a total disaster if he did, as we've seen with the coaching.

ImHeisenberg wrote:I didn't cite any specific players. Monroe is still relatively young. But, how much has Stuckey developed? Has Josh Smith at his apex now that he's in the "prime" of his career? Is Brandon Jennings notably better than he was as a rookie? Villanueva has gotten progressively worse since coming to Detroit.

The point was- age does not automatically equate to being a better player.

which kind of scares me when it comes to Drummond. he has a good chance to become a generational talent, but he needs the coaching. hopefully the coaching situation is fixed so Drummond can flourish.

whitehops wrote:

ImHeisenberg wrote:I didn't cite any specific players. Monroe is still relatively young. But, how much has Stuckey developed? Has Josh Smith at his apex now that he's in the "prime" of his career? Is Brandon Jennings notably better than he was as a rookie? Villanueva has gotten progressively worse since coming to Detroit.

The point was- age does not automatically equate to being a better player.

which kind of scares me when it comes to Drummond. he has a good chance to become a generational talent, but he needs the coaching. hopefully the coaching situation is fixed so Drummond can flourish.

We can hope. Hopefully the next GM can hire a good developmental coach to help Drummond along, or at least a HC that can put those proper coaches around him.

I think the other current sad sack teams will surpass us next season as well - Milwaukee, Orlando, Philly will add top five picks from this years draft to young cores, Atlanta will be healthy, Cleveland looks to be putting it together. Boston, NY and BKN could all be on their way down, but all are prime FA destination markets and all have owners willing to spend.

We're not finishing ahead of Miami, Indiana, Chicago, Toronto, Washington or Charlotte so will have to battle the Hawks, Cavs, Nets, Knicks, Celts for two final play-off spots, assuming Orlando, Philly don't make drastic improvements while adding a Wiggins, Randle, Parker, Embiid to their current teams via the draft.

And we only improve internally, maybe with $10M in FA to spend, but not going to get anything but overpaying for the runts of the FA class that probably won't be as good as Stuckey who surely leaves.

So I don't think we're a play-off team next year - we could be bottom 5-6 on paper heading into the season.

As well as any one of pistons fans here, I hope pistons will be better and become competitive soon.
However, the "aging" factor applies to any other teams and they also try to improve. So if we improve 100, but also other team improve 150, our team relatively become less competitive. The key to be success and improve faster than others is GM, but we all know how good ours.
Also, there's always injure risk. What if Drummond get hurt and out of the season. We only can hope we won't finish worse than this year.
I know my theory is based on a lot of assumptions, but my point is there's not a good advantage of tanking this season. It's high risk, low reward type action.
I'm okay if we make a playoff or keep 8th pick, but there're some advantages of being between playoff and bottom 8.


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imagump1313 wrote:

Mr Peanut wrote:Also the writing is on the wall if Dumars is not re-signed that Gores isn't a fan of our 2013 FA signings, and you'd expect there to be some movement on that front by whoever he hires.

I don't recall seeing anywhere where Gores said he wasn't a fan of the FA signings. Again I think you are assuming alot. The only thing I've seen him say is that he thought they should be winning more games. To me that sounds like he thinks he has the players he wants, but they were not being coached properly.
Remember he was the one who demanded playoffs this year. If he really thought the FA signings were bad (even though he doesn't know anything about basketball) I doubt if he would be demanding this.

I really don't think Gores has the ability to even know if they were good signings or not. He just writes the checks. People seem to put way too much emphasis on Gores making basketball decisions which would be a total disaster if he did, as we've seen with the coaching.

Wait, aren't you assuming now? Gores knows nothing about basketball? Dude played through high school and has said in previous interviews he's always had a keen interest in the game, and since buying the Pistons has made the effort to watch every game (even if he can't watch live). I'd say he's got a stronger background and knowledge in basketball than many of the armchair-GMs on this board.

Also Chad Ford and Zach Lowe both reported that the Pistons were shopping Josh Smith at the deadline, and given the more active role Gores has taken this season (confirmed by his role in the Cheeks firing) it is plainly obvious that this order came from the top.