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Is Greg Monroe Worth the Money?

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Is Greg Monroe Worth the Money? 

Post#1 » by E-Z » Wed Feb 26, 2014 4:48 am

I probably wouldn't be asking the question if Josh Smith was not signed, but there weren't any other viable options if Detroit really embraced a "win-now" mentality last summer. I'm sure the Pistons were high on Iggy, but I'm also sure the opposite feeling was true on his side. Regardless, the trio of Smith, Drummond, and Monroe ended up as a failed gamble into the playoffs. I believe it's fair to start looking at the off-season, because Detroit's stance to match any sheet thrown at Monroe is kind of terrifying.

Offensively, we know what he brings to the table. His development on the offensive side of the floor has been impressive. We can recall the times where a fair amount of his shots were blocked in his rookie year, to him demonstrating a bevy of post moves on the block. His hook could use some work, and he still doesn't have much of an outside shot, but he's becoming a stud to say the least.

Defensively, he's the polar opposite. Synergy ranks him 81st in picking up his man on the P&R, as his assignments shoot 53% from the floor. However, this statistic does not illustrate the entire picture. The video clips that they show for every single possession can't highlight how many times the defense collapses because Monroe struggles picking up either the guard or the roll/pop man. Also forget about him even closing out on open shooters altogether. In a league that's becoming smaller & faster, Monroe's slow feet is really damaging, especially for a potentially max-contract guy.

Grantland went even further on his off-ball defense:

His off-ball defense is similarly unintuitive. Monroe wants to help and has a rudimentary sense of where he should be as the chess pieces move around the floor, but he’s unsure of himself and prone to fatal hesitations and bouts of confusion. He has struggled to develop any chemistry with his big-man partners, so that a lot of Detroit possessions end with late help rotations or both bigs chasing one opposing big man — each under the impression the other would be elsewhere on the floor. Watching film of Detroit’s defense basically amounts to sitting through an hours-long reel of dunks, shrugged shoulders, and inattentive help; only eight teams allowed more shots at the rim last season, and only three allowed opponents to shoot a higher percentage than the ghastly 61.1 percent Detroit allowed.

To use one example of a simple play with which Detroit and Monroe had depressingly chronic issues: Monroe in the below photo (standing at the right edge of the paint) is only just realizing Nicolas Batum, having caught the ball after flying around a Joel Freeland screen and drawing Freeland’s man onto him, is about to hit Freeland for an easy dunk.


Josh Smith is unique in which he can pick up both the guards and the roll man if he has to with efficiency. That level of versatility is worth using more often at the power forward position. He'll always be an enigma offensively, but he has historically found great success at the 4. I know it sounds crazy, but Monroe just isn't a power forward defensively. The paring of him and Drummond will never work when almost every team can stretch the floor with relative ease.

Detroit should just bite the bullet and let him walk, but that'll never happen. Smith will be the one shopped out, and Detroit will still be in the basement as far as defensive rebounding and opponent's FG%'s are concerned.
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Re: Is Greg Monroe Worth the Money? 

Post#2 » by jakebernat » Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:01 am

i'm all for shopping monroe in a sign & trade to move smith to power forward until he eventually becomes an asset. who knows, maybe he could actually turn out to be pretty useful for us, but i think you hit the nail on the head. monroe just can't cover power forwards defensively. you could argue that drummond could get monroe's man, but now you're taking andre away from the basket where he's not nearly as effective. smith is a exponentially more useful on defense then monroe. then, there's the whole spacing thing blah blah blah

i say we might as well give smith a chance to earn his contract since nobody's gonna give anything of value for him. monroe's value is as high as it's going to be, but neither he nor smith will get the proper opportunity to prove that they're worth what they're being paid as long as they co-exist (along with drummond of course).
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Re: Is Greg Monroe Worth the Money? 

Post#3 » by MotownMadness » Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:02 am

He's probably not worth what he's going to get but neither are most of the young bigs in the league. He's still one of the more talented young players in the league, That we have to get some pieces back for. Letting him just walk is not a option in my opinion. Once he's locked into a contract I'm sure we will get some pretty good offers for him. If Smith gets traded though I would definatley just keep him and see how he develops for another couple years.
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Re: Is Greg Monroe Worth the Money? 

Post#4 » by Notanoob » Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:08 am

I think that he's worth the money. He'll never be an elite defender, or even an awfully good defender, but I think that his defense is significantly worse than it can be due to the coaching staff. This entire team is utterly clueless when it comes to just the most basic defensive concepts. No one knows how to rotate, or they're late on their rotations if they guess right. Jennings lets guards blow past him, Singler can't keep up with SGs, Smith can't keep up with SFs, and Drummond is still learning how to play. Basically, for a guy who isn't an instinctive defender or quick athlete, Greg had no chance from the start. The only guy who enforced discipline on the defensive end was Frank, but everyone seemed to hate him and Greg was playing center at the time. I think Moose will look significantly better if we start putting better defenders around him (KCP, Singler at SF instead of Smith, anybody but Jennings), and find a coach who can teach them a defensive system. If the Griz could have a top rated defense with Z-bo, we can create a good defense with Monroe.

Regardless of that though, we should sign him, at least as part of a sign and trade. No way you just let him walk for no compensation. That'd be terrible asset management.
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Re: Is Greg Monroe Worth the Money? 

Post#5 » by ComboGuardCity » Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:23 am

Yes.
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Re: Is Greg Monroe Worth the Money? 

Post#6 » by E-Z » Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:23 am

I'm not too sure on the sign and trade rules. Could Detroit immediately trade Monroe after matching an offer sheet, or will it just have to be similar in how Detroit traded for Jennings? Virtually there was no market for him, but I'm sure a few teams will attempt to pry Monroe away from the Pistons.
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Re: Is Greg Monroe Worth the Money? 

Post#7 » by mercury » Wed Feb 26, 2014 5:47 am

E-Z wrote:I'm not too sure on the sign and trade rules. Could Detroit immediately trade Monroe after matching an offer sheet, or will it just have to be similar in how Detroit traded for Jennings? Virtually there was no market for him, but I'm sure a few teams will attempt to pry Monroe away from the Pistons.

Unless the CBA has changed... they give a team 48 hours to trade him after signing... then he can't be dealt until the restrictions expire.

As for Monroe's value... I have a number in mind but no matter what we sign him for he'll still be tradeable later (baring injuries)... S&T's are less likely to get back equal value.
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Re: Is Greg Monroe Worth the Money? 

Post#8 » by Neptune » Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:13 am

I think he's worth it. We all know that big men are coveted in the the league today. Why should we let one of those coveted big men walk when he's a good fit next to Drummond. Both of them are interchangeable. When Monroe or Drummond need to rest we have the other to cover him. Letting him walk for nothing isn't the best way to go, especially when there's a sign and trade option available.

Prediction: Pistons match a 4yr/50mil deal and retain Monroe (If Cousins keeps acting up, watch out for a sign and trade)
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Re: Is Greg Monroe Worth the Money? 

Post#9 » by Natopher » Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:17 am

ComboGuardCity wrote:Yes.
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Re: Is Greg Monroe Worth the Money? 

Post#10 » by dVs33 » Wed Feb 26, 2014 6:38 am

ComboGuardCity wrote:Yes.
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Re: Is Greg Monroe Worth the Money? 

Post#11 » by Q00 » Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:10 am

Great post

And no he's worth about 10 mil/yr at best. A one way offensive big men who can't shoot is the equivalent of a one way defensive big who can't defensive rebound. If you are going to only play one side of the ball, you better be a complete player at that side of the ball and all the aspects that go with it, if you expect to get more than 10 mil/yr. For 15 mil/yr? You better be a complete player at that side of the ball and be dominant in every aspect of that side of the ball. Monroe is neither.

Really all Monroe can do is score in the post (but never when the game is on the line), rebound (yet seems to always give up key rebounds in crunch time), and pass (yet the majority of his passes in crunch time seem to result in turnovers).

In other words, he gives you solid post scoring, rebounding, and passing through 3 quarters and that's pretty much what Monroe can provide a team right now. That's not worth more than 10 mil/yr to me. Probably more like 8-9 mil when you really think about it, but definitely not a max contract in the 14-15 mil range.

I can't see us ever being a great defense with him starting at PF. I agree with you and that article. It pretty much points out exactly what I've seen from him all year on defense. Slow recognition, slow reaction, half-contesting shots when he's within distance to contest harder, just a lot of confusion and laziness all around basically.
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Re: Is Greg Monroe Worth the Money? 

Post#12 » by kurtis48239 » Wed Feb 26, 2014 7:47 am

Q00 wrote:Great post

And no he's worth about 10 mil/yr at best. A one way offensive big men who can't shoot is the equivalent of a one way defensive big who can't defensive rebound. If you are going to only play one side of the ball, you better be a complete player at that side of the ball and all the aspects that go with it, if you expect to get more than 10 mil/yr. For 15 mil/yr? You better be a complete player at that side of the ball and be dominant in every aspect of that side of the ball. Monroe is neither.

Really all Monroe can do is score in the post (but never when the game is on the line), rebound (yet seems to always give up key rebounds in crunch time), and pass (yet the majority of his passes in crunch time seem to result in turnovers).

In other words, he gives you solid post scoring, rebounding, and passing through 3 quarters and that's pretty much what Monroe can provide a team right now. That's not worth more than 10 mil/yr to me. Probably more like 8-9 mil when you really think about it, but definitely not a max contract in the 14-15 mil range.

I can't see us ever being a great defense with him starting at PF. I agree with you and that article. It pretty much points out exactly what I've seen from him all year on defense. Slow recognition, slow reaction, half-contesting shots when he's within distance to contest harder, just a lot of confusion and laziness all around basically.

A generous contract for him would/should be 10 mil and not a penny more.
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Re: Is Greg Monroe Worth the Money? 

Post#13 » by ComboGuardCity » Wed Feb 26, 2014 8:09 am

Yes we really need that extra 4 mill for guys like Bynum.
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Re: Is Greg Monroe Worth the Money? 

Post#14 » by Q00 » Wed Feb 26, 2014 8:19 am

ComboGuardCity wrote:Yes we really need that extra 4 mill for guys like Bynum.


Just because Joe wasted 4 mil on Bynum doesn't mean the next GM will. You can get 1-2 great shooters for that price.

Also, while I feel 9-10 mil/yr is probably all Monroe is worth as a player, I'm not saying I want to pay him that much and then use the rest on other players. I really prefer not to resign him at any price unless its like bench player money (because I could see him being a key bench piece on a contender). I just don't have confidence in him as a starter on a contender, and 9-10 mil is too much to pay to bring him off the bench. Therefore I'd rather just use all of that money on other players and start fresh with a new model, only acquiring players who are good defenders from now on.

I'm starting to think Monroe's lackadasical defense is starting to rub off on Drummond too. When you think about it, Monroe is the veteran big man that Dre has looked up to since he got here and he's probably picking up all his bad habits, even if subconsciously. Drummond had great defensive awareness as a rookie and now too often plays that same confused defense as Monroe. As a 20 yr old in his first season starting, he's just a sponge right now and is just following whatever he's seeing his peers doing. I bet if we surround him with better defenders, he will fit in and follow suit. I fear if we keep Monroe next to him though, they will both just stay poor defenders and be cool with it. Dre's greatest potential is defensively. Instead of worrying about making him the next Shaq we need to get him a great defensive big man to play next to and learn from.
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Re: Is Greg Monroe Worth the Money? 

Post#15 » by ComboGuardCity » Wed Feb 26, 2014 9:02 am

Q00 wrote:
ComboGuardCity wrote:Yes we really need that extra 4 mill for guys like Bynum.


Just because Joe wasted 4 mil on Bynum doesn't mean the next GM will. You can get 1-2 great shooters for that price.

Also, while I feel 9-10 mil/yr is probably all Monroe is worth as a player, I'm not saying I want to pay him that much and then use the rest on other players. I really prefer not to resign him at any price unless its like bench player money (because I could see him being a key bench piece on a contender). I just don't have confidence in him as a starter on a contender, and 9-10 mil is too much to pay to bring him off the bench. Therefore I'd rather just use all of that money on other players and start fresh with a new model, only acquiring players who are good defenders from now on.

I'm starting to think Monroe's lackadasical defense is starting to rub off on Drummond too. When you think about it, Monroe is the veteran big man that Dre has looked up to since he got here and he's probably picking up all his bad habits, even if subconsciously. Drummond had great defensive awareness as a rookie and now too often plays that same confused defense as Monroe. As a 20 yr old in his first season starting, he's just a sponge right now and is just following whatever he's seeing his peers doing. I bet if we surround him with better defenders, he will fit in and follow suit. I fear if we keep Monroe next to him though, they will both just stay poor defenders and be cool with it. Dre's greatest potential is defensively. Instead of worrying about making him the next Shaq we need to get him a great defensive big man to play next to and learn from.

There is no 4mil/yr player that we would NOT be able to acquire because of Monroe's contract. Its a myth. No team has ever lost because they needed 4 mill extra in cap space.


...and can we stop acting like these are animals on the court? Dre is a grown boy. He knows damn well what's right and wrong.
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Re: Is Greg Monroe Worth the Money? 

Post#16 » by Irate » Wed Feb 26, 2014 10:01 am

mercury wrote:
E-Z wrote:I'm not too sure on the sign and trade rules. Could Detroit immediately trade Monroe after matching an offer sheet, or will it just have to be similar in how Detroit traded for Jennings? Virtually there was no market for him, but I'm sure a few teams will attempt to pry Monroe away from the Pistons.

Unless the CBA has changed... they give a team 48 hours to trade him after signing... then he can't be dealt until the restrictions expire.

As for Monroe's value... I have a number in mind but no matter what we sign him for he'll still be tradeable later (baring injuries)... S&T's are less likely to get back equal value.


A player who signs an offer sheet with another team is no longer eligible for a sign-and-trade.

http://www.cbafaq.com/salarycap.htm#Q44

If a team matches an offer sheet and retains its free agent, then for one year they cannot trade him without his consent, and during that year cannot trade him at all to the team that signed him to the offer sheet. They also can't trade the player in a sign-and-trade transaction (see question number 90).
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Re: Is Greg Monroe Worth the Money? 

Post#17 » by sc8581 » Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:05 am

Letting him walk only makes sense if we have a really good unrestricted free agent that is ready to sign and we need to renounce Monroe to make it happen. Not sure that is a possibility this summer for us but you never know I guess.
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Re: Is Greg Monroe Worth the Money? 

Post#18 » by princeofpalace » Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:21 am

Ah, the weekly Greg Monroe contract thread.

Yes, Greg is worth the money and Yes, we are going to match- after we tried shopping Smith at deadline nobody should question either of those statements.
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Re: Is Greg Monroe Worth the Money? 

Post#19 » by sc8581 » Wed Feb 26, 2014 11:27 am

princeofpalace wrote:Ah, the weekly Greg Monroe contract thread.

Yes, Greg is worth the money and Yes, we are going to match- after we tried shopping Smith at deadline nobody should question either of those statements.


You believe everything you read huh?
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Re: Is Greg Monroe Worth the Money? 

Post#20 » by E-Z » Wed Feb 26, 2014 4:29 pm

Letting Monroe walk isn't about freeing up cap-space to sign another player or two. Really it's just addition by subtraction, IMO. Drummond is agreed upon as the de-facto center of the Pistons' future, a position that Greg Monroe would have been fine in. However, Monroe at power forward is inefficient. His production on offense is washed out entirely by his negative impact on defense.

Monroe is untradable if Detroit matches any offers this summer. Detroit then trades Smith, however the issue would still remain if the tandem of Monroe and Drummond exist. Why pay him the money for something that just won't work? The Pistons should probably bolster their athleticism at the 4 and not just the 3 if they want any sort of improvement.

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