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THERE. i said it.

but seriously, dumars has royally **** up this time. drummond is obviously the face of this franchise. knowing that, dumars constructed a lineup almost completely uncomplimentary to his skill set. trading away a 1st rounder to get out from ONE YEAR of gordon's contract was horrible, but i had an awful feeling when dumars was given the "playoffs or bust" ultimatum before this season.

knight wasn't the greatest facilitator, couldn't really operate comfortably out of the P&R, and at times, was just plain out of control, BUT he actually played defense. he spread the court, picked his spots, and actually attacked the rim. he worked his ass off, and now, in a completely unprecidented sequence of events, has improved...a lot.

i've tried to defend the knight trade so much as it was the one move i felt that made some sense. "jennings actually knows how to get his teammates involved. he can actually run the P&R. LOB CITY EAST!!11!!1" but enough is enough. we let a good one get away. hell, we let a good TWO get away, and nobody's to blame but joe dumbass.

I would've loved to see the inside out game that we could've incoporated with Knight and Middleton still here and KCP along with Dre and a filler.

Its funny because Knight pissed me off very often. He has major flaws but watching Jennings play every night makes me miss Knight too. I would take Knight back over Jennings any day.

Knight is a scrub.

Jake- I know you're relatively new here. Dumars terrible decisions and mistakes have all been well documented and discussed.

I do not necessarily miss Knight. He has a lot of heart, a great attitude and work ethic. But, he will never be a legit PG in the NBA.

Nobody on this team gives the effort BK did. That's the thing I miss. The kid is relentless and refuses to accept failure. It remains to be seen if the trade was a good one, but I sure do miss being able to count on one guy to show up and play like it was his last game. I understand why some people don't like his game, but you'd be hard pressed to find somebody who doesn't love the kid.

Hate to say it, but I would rather have Knight at this point than Jennings. He's not as talented and not a true PG, but he's more efficient(which is more of a testament to Jennings inefficiency), plays defense, better 3pt shooter...

I'd take my chances and see how Knight would progress under Cheeks and Chauncey.

Knight was a team first guy, and would have had no problem feeding Drummond and Monroe everything. Jennings always is looking to get his and seems most often to look to give Smith the ball otherwise.

Middleton too, as a second rounder, was much more open to being a complimentary piece than Smoove is (of course). So instead of Jennings and Smith being the focal point of our scoring it would have been Drummond and Monroe with Carter-Williams looking to be the pass first point, Knight being the spot up 3 and D perimeter player and Middleton camping out on the corner.

We keep Knight and we could have drafted Michael Carter Williams because he could have guarded the two.

MCW
Knight
Middleton
Monroe
Drummond

^Probably has lost a few more games this year as a very young team is prone to during growing pains, meaning we're looking at keeping our pick as well.

ImHeisenberg wrote:Jake- I know you're relatively new here. Dumars terrible decisions and mistakes have all been well documented and discussed.

I do not necessarily miss Knight. He has a lot of heart, a great attitude and work ethic. But, he will never be a legit PG in the NBA.

what does being a "legit PG" mean? that he won't ever average 10 assists a game? sure, i agree with you then, but i could definitely see him putting up an efficient 16-18 PPG and 6-7 APG throughout the bulk of his prime. maybe, those numbers would be slightly lowered on a very good team, but my point is this: knight is making more plays these days that win you games than plays that lose you games. i can't say the same for jennings.

one reason why i think attack guards that can convert from the free throw line at a high rate is so important for this particular team is because drummond is bound to get teams into foul trouble. we could get teams into the penalty early and really make them pay. that's every slasher's dream, to be one foul away from two freebies.

I would have kept Knight, but he would have to play the 2.

Losing Knight for Jennings is a wash. Both have issues, but if it came down to who I'd rather have at the point, I'll go with Jennings 9 times out 10. Brandon may have been an incredibly hard worker, but he will never be able to run an offense. I said that when he was coming out of Kentucky. He was the primary scorer there, and was never used to facilitate an offense. Say what you will about Jennings' deficiencies in regards to shot choice, and lack of attacking the basket, but he has an idea as to how to move the ball. Knight was a turnover machine. There were games where I would get excited to see him dishing the ball and racking up a few assists, but those were the games where he had 4, 5 even 6 turnovers. I'm more upset with losing Middleton in this trade than anything else, and even that is a minor detail.

jakebernat wrote:THERE. i said it.

but seriously, dumars has royally **** up this time. drummond is obviously the face of this franchise. knowing that, dumars constructed a lineup almost completely uncomplimentary to his skill set.

The thing is, while it may seem like Knight has exactly what this team is lacking - perimeter defense and 3pt shooting - he's actually a very poor compliment to Drummond. Which was why the Pistons traded him, from what I've read, and why I have no regrets about the trade.

It simply comes down to the pick & roll. Drummond is excellent at it and Knight is not. They don't compliment each other. So even though he probably would've helped in some areas for THIS team, this team is about to be history in a few months, as major changes are probably in store. So those aspects don't really mean much now. All that matters is how he would've complimented Drummond longterm and if he can't form a dominating pick & roll combo with him (not just good but dominating) then it wasn't going to work here for Knight. He would only have been stunting Drummond's potential.

What we need at PG is a pick & roll master, who is great on the ball defensively, and can make the open jumpshot occasionally (preferably from 3, but not necessary).

Rondo fits that bill perfectly.

I've seen a couple articles about how well Brandon is playing. We gave up too soon on him, but I do believe he'd be best as a combo guard.

The trade was part of an unmitigated disaster of an offseason. If we had not signed Smith, kept Middleton and Knight, and drafted Burke, this roster would look completely different.

I believe the pressure on Dumars may have forced the moves he made with a win-now mentality. But we'll never know.

jakebernat wrote:what does being a "legit PG" mean? that he won't ever average 10 assists a game? sure, i agree with you then, but i could definitely see him putting up an efficient 16-18 PPG and 6-7 APG throughout the bulk of his prime. maybe, those numbers would be slightly lowered on a very good team, but my point is this: knight is making more plays these days that win you games than plays that lose you games. i can't say the same for jennings.

By a "legit PG", I mean a PG who can run the offense, make his teammates better. I'm not talking about the stats that he could or could not rack up. BK cannot run a pick and roll properly to save his life.

By stating that I don't miss him isn't an endorsement for Jennings by any means. But, if he stayed here, he would likely continue to try to be pigeon holed into that PG role that clearly is not his best fit.

Milwaukee fan here.

I have seen a ton of Brandon Knight this year and have seen a lot of Jennings in the past. It seems like Jennings is still doing a ton of the things that made him so frustrating to watch in Milwaukee and to tell you the truth Brandon Knight isn't having that great of a year. He is putting up big numbers, but anybody that has watched him will still tell you he is not a point guard.

Going forward if I was forced to start one at PG, I would take Jennings. However I would rather have neither start at the point. Knight still is not a natural facilitator. He just doesn't have the vision. He is a nice player to have. Maybe could start at the 2 or a 1 in a non-traditional offense (Miami, Lakers Kobe, or MJ's Bulls) but I believe his ultimate fate is a really good 6th man on a winning team. I like him because you can always rely on the effort and he will play good defense plus he really is a good teammate.

But the best player in the trade IMO is Middleton. Definitely not the most talented in the trade but in terms of a guy that could just come in and play on any team, Middleton is your guy.

Thats basically what it boils down to, neither BK or BJ is a guy you want running your offense, but at least BK is a player you want on your team. Theres really no place on a good team for Jennings, but there are roles on a contender that Knight could fill.

Jennings is more talented than Knight any day of the week. Both of them sucked here because both of them had horrible coaches.

I liked Knights effort though. If you put Knights head on Jennings body you would have an all star.

imagump1313 wrote:Jennings is more talented than Knight any day of the week. Both of them sucked here because both of them had horrible coaches.

I liked Knights effort though. If you put Knights head on Jennings body you would have an all star.

I agree that Jennings is more talented. When the guy gives flat out effort he can definitely play. A couple of years ago somebody said that Jennings didn't play defense. So for 10 or so games he went out and became a lock down defender. Later somebody said he was a terrible PG because he only looked for his own shot. So for 10 or so games he went out and looked like an unbelievable pass first PG. I don't know if you even need Knight's head on Jennings body. Jennings sees things that Knight can't. He can flat out do things Knight can't. I think if Jennings had Knight's work ethic, effort and personality you would have a top 3 Point Guard in the NBA. But the things that were holding Jennings back in Milwaukee are the same things holding him back in Detroit. He is a lazy, me-first, wanna be thug that has no interest in or doesn't know how to play winning basketball.

Edit- Jennings really needs to go some place with a strong Veteran that can tell him to stop being such a Bitch. Knight needs to go someplace where he can play with a tall Point Guard. Like MCW.

hege53190 wrote:

imagump1313 wrote:Jennings is more talented than Knight any day of the week. Both of them sucked here because both of them had horrible coaches.

I liked Knights effort though. If you put Knights head on Jennings body you would have an all star.

I think if Jennings had Knight's work ethic, effort and personality you would have a top 3 Point Guard in the NBA.

This is what I meant to say but you said it better.

hege53190 wrote:But the things that were holding Jennings back in Milwaukee are the same things holding him back in Detroit. He is a lazy, me-first, wanna be thug that has no interest in or doesn't know how to play winning basketball.

^^ agreed ^^