So if we draft gordon or another pf do we let monroe go

aad · Post #1 » by **aad** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 3:21 am

Do we let monroe go if we draft aaron gordon or another pf its seems where we will be drafting its only big men worthy of the pick

Neptune · Post #2 » by **Neptune** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 3:39 am

I'll pass and keep the guy who's proven that he's a double-double machine in the professional league. If we get our pick we need to draft another guard or trade the pick for more proven talent.

ComboGuardCity · Post #3 » by **ComboGuardCity** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 3:40 am

Why not keep all 3? Gordon might be a 3. No one knows totally yet. No reason to put your eggs in one basket.

ImHeisenberg · Post #4 » by **ImHeisenberg** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 3:51 am

Match Monroe and retain him. Focus on moving Smith for any expiring contract, or at least a wing with less years on his deal.

If Gordon translates well to the pros, then we can entertain Monroe trade offers.

aad · Post #5 » by **aad** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 3:51 am

I hope that we can trade smith this summer I would hate for this team to bring him and jennings back one of them gotta go

Warspite · Post #6 » by **Warspite** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 3:54 am

You cant let Monroe walk. Losing him for 4 mil in cap space that you use to sign a Kwame Brown type backup would set us back several yrs. At least sign him and trade him later.

Maker_84 · Post #7 » by **Maker_84** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:28 am

Aaron Gordon is a 3 who is slow laterally, hell fricking NOOO

Notanoob · Post #8 » by **Notanoob** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:41 am

You don't let Monroe walk for nothing, and you try to move Smith first regardless.

Gordon is not a 3, he simply does not have the perimeter skills. He's like a poor man's Rodman. He can rebound, he can defend (just big enough to handle PFs, and just quick enough to keep up with SFs) and he can pass, but the shooting and ball-handling are not good enough to make him a 3 in the NBA.

bkseven · Post #9 » by **bkseven** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 5:28 am

ComboGuardCity wrote:Why not keep all 3? Gordon might be a 3. No one knows totally yet. No reason to put your eggs in one basket.

... Since when have tweeners even been successful for the pistons or the other teams in the league. Take a look at Derrick Williams for Anthony Bennett for example. We have Josh Smith playing the three when he's a four. Do we really want to screw with a player like Gordon and put him as a 3 when he can't shoot?

The Pistons have been playing players out of positions for far too long: Singler, Smith, Rip Hamilton (as a sf when bg was here), Daye, etc.

Q00 · Post #10 » by **Q00** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:05 am

I'm not that into Gordon, but I'm not opposed to using the pick on a PF, if that's the best player on the board. In my opinion Randle looks like the most sure thing NBA all-star big man from this draft. I could easily see him being a 20-10 guy in a few years. The only problem is he's kind of similar to Monroe from strength/weakness standpoint. He's not the best defender yet and he doesn't have a great jumpshot. However I think he has the tools to develop into a good defender, and I think he's already a good team defender which Monroe isn't. He's also a true PF and more athletic/physically tough player, which Monroe is neither of those things.

So if he's somehow on the board still when we pick, I would take him and trade Monroe for whatever we can get. Even if he never ends up being better and still poses all the same problems, he will only cost 4-5 mil/yr vs the 15 mil/yr Monroe will cost, and I think he could be just as productive for us at PF from day one. So if we can get a cheaper/younger Monroe to replace him, who has a better chance of developing defensively, I'll take that trade.

I think he's going to be a stud and if we can get in the 5-6 range he could be there for us to take.

Damon_3388 · Post #11 » by **Damon_3388** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 8:53 am

Please show me one of these "he might be a 3" guys who has had any actual success playing at the 3 spot. Gordon is a 4, end of. Don't try and make him into something he's not.

dan2314 · Post #12 » by **dan2314** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:28 am

if gordon plays in the league as a 4, he will fail. the only way he succeeds is if he hones his game on playing the 3. hopefully eventually he can play a few minutes per game at the 4, but he will not succeed if he is a full time 4. but no, i do not want gordon. firstly, he does not fit this team at all, and secondly, i have plenty of doubt a tweener like him will work in the league at all. needs to be a better scorer, and i have doubts he can be an elite rebounder. transition runner/defender are his main pros at this point.

wallace72 · Post #13 » by **wallace72** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 9:56 am

No thx,
Give Monroe an extension,
We allready have a PF who plays SF, and an SF who plays SG.

ThirdMan · Post #14 » by **ThirdMan** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 12:51 pm

You never lose an asset for nothing. Sign and trade him later. Look how patient the Rockets are with Asik. I'd rather Monroe sat the bench earning 10+ mil a year then lose him for nothing. Bigs will always have value. IMO, we shouldn't be looking to get a solid proven player because no one is going to give that up. We should look for a project and a future draft pick that could potentially be top ten.

Notanoob · Post #15 » by **Notanoob** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 2:57 pm

Q00 wrote:I'm not that into Gordon, but I'm not opposed to using the pick on a PF, if that's the best player on the board. In my opinion Randle looks like the most sure thing NBA all-star big man from this draft. I could easily see him being a 20-10 guy in a few years. The only problem is he's kind of similar to Monroe from strength/weakness standpoint. He's not the best defender yet and he doesn't have a great jumpshot. However I think he has the tools to develop into a good defender, and I think he's already a good team defender which Monroe isn't. He's also a true PF and more athletic/physically tough player, which Monroe is neither of those things.

He really doesn't have the tools to be a good defender. The things you look for in college (wingspan/reach [mostly reach], steals, blocks, good vert) are absent in him. He's a similar one-way player, but with a poor reach (makes it hard to pick pockets, contest/block shots), and he doesn't get steals. Additionally, he has a horrible A/TO ratio, which is a shame.

Give these articles a read:
http://www.canishoopus.com/2014/2/26/54 ... -prospects
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com/archive/cat ... t-combine/

I suspect that Randle will be gone when we pick anyways, and I kind of prefer Vonleh to him. He's already showing some shooting touch, is a much more instinctive shot-blocker despite not being a leaper, and is nearly as good of a rebounder as Randle. I think he could be the better two-way player, even if Randle might beat him on offense.

ImHeisenberg · Post #16 » by **ImHeisenberg** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 3:05 pm

Maker_84 wrote:Aaron Gordon is a 3 who is slow laterally, hell fricking NOOO

What?

I don't think I've ever heard anyone refer to Gordon as "slow".

Joe Berry · Post #17 » by **Joe Berry** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 3:55 pm

In no scenario you let Monroe walk thats just stupid. Resign him, if the rookie proves to be a better PF or better fit next to Drummond you still can trade Monroe, he's got some value around the league unlike Smennings.

Clarity · Post #18 » by **Clarity** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 4:09 pm

ImHeisenberg wrote:Match Monroe and retain him. Focus on moving Smith for any expiring contract, or at least a wing with less years on his deal.

If Gordon translates well to the pros, then we can entertain Monroe trade offers.

agreed

Q00 · Post #19 » by **Q00** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:29 pm

Notanoob wrote:
Q00 wrote:I'm not that into Gordon, but I'm not opposed to using the pick on a PF, if that's the best player on the board. In my opinion Randle looks like the most sure thing NBA all-star big man from this draft. I could easily see him being a 20-10 guy in a few years. The only problem is he's kind of similar to Monroe from strength/weakness standpoint. He's not the best defender yet and he doesn't have a great jumpshot. However I think he has the tools to develop into a good defender, and I think he's already a good team defender which Monroe isn't. He's also a true PF and more athletic/physically tough player, which Monroe is neither of those things.
He really doesn't have the tools to be a good defender. The things you look for in college (wingspan/reach [mostly reach], steals, blocks, good vert) are absent in him. He's a similar one-way player, but with a poor reach (makes it hard to pick pockets, contest/block shots), and he doesn't get steals. Additionally, he has a horrible A/TO ratio, which is a shame.

Give these articles a read:
http://www.canishoopus.com/2014/2/26/54 ... -prospects
http://hardwoodparoxysm.com/archive/cat ... t-combine/

I suspect that Randle will be gone when we pick anyways, and I kind of prefer Vonleh to him. He's already showing some shooting touch, is a much more instinctive shot-blocker despite not being a leaper, and is nearly as good of a rebounder as Randle. I think he could be the better two-way player, even if Randle might beat him on offense.

To be clear, I wasn't suggesting he could be anything special as an individual defender (but I do think he can be solid). I was speaking more from a team defensive standpoint, where its about lateral athleticism and quick thinking/reacting. He has both of those tools to be a good team defender in the NBA and is worlds better than Monroe in both areas. He also doesn't shy away from contact on defense and has the strength to be a good post defender, as well the quickness to guard away from the rim too, from an individual standpoint.

Steals and blocks don't really equate to good defense, and Monroe has a long reach and look what good it has done him. So while those things you mentioned can be assets, there's other more important aspects to defense (especially team defense) that you didn't mention that he has working in his favor.

As for his A/T ratio. He's a PF, not a PG. Again, Monroe has a good A/T ratio and look what good it has done us. So based on all the things you evaluate bigs on, it would seem Monroe is the perfect big for this team, because he's pretty good in most of those areas you listed. Yet when I look on the court I don't see any of those things helping us win. So maybe those aren't the traits the Pistons should be using to choose their power forwards.

I've never seen Vonleh. I'm assuming he's a good defender though, coming from Creen's system in Indiana. Does he have a consistent jumpshot?

Q00 · Post #20 » by **Q00** » Mon Mar 31, 2014 7:41 pm

Joe Asberry wrote:In no scenario you let Monroe walk thats just stupid. Resign him, if the rookie proves to be a better PF or better fit next to Drummond you still can trade Monroe, he's got some value around the league unlike Smennings.

Letting Monroe walk for nothing isn't really for nothing though, because in exchange you gain max capspace to spend on other needs. So while it would be nice to get those needs filled in return for him in a trade, if you can use that money to fill the same needs in FA instead it really doesn't make a difference. You're essentially just trading him for those players you signed with the money instead.

Also, you may think Monroe is tradeable now, but once he has a fresh 4 yr, 15 mil/yr contract, he's not going to be any more tradeable than Smith with his 3 yr, 14 mil/yr deal.

How often does a player get traded right after signing a max contract? I can't think of any time its happened. So to think we can resign Monroe to that huge overpaid contract, and then just trade him whenever we want is just not realistic.

Its one thing for teams to be interested in him this summer as FA, when they don't have to give up any assets to acquire him. But if we resign him to a 15 mil/yr contract and offered him to those same teams next winter, that's a lot of salary to match, meaning they would have to give up significant assets to acquire him then, and suddenly those teams aren't so interested in him anymore.