Look on the Bright side... (J Smoove)

[GreekAlex]

Not to kick Joe D. while he's down but in retrospect he's handed out quite a few terrible contracts.

It's too hard to overcome more than one or two players with terrible contracts unless you have a star on a rookie deal.

As far as Josh Smith though, we were able to sign him because we shed Tayshaun and his terrible contract.

As much as people dislike Josh, I'd rather have him at 13M/per for 4 years than Tayshaun for 2 years at 8M/per.

Has anyone noticed how bad he fell off?

It's easy to remember the bad Stucky, CV, Ben Gordon deals but Tayshaun and RIP's deals were fairly brutal too.

And we can only hope Jonas opts out next season. No one would pay him 4M next season.

[jakebernat]

don't forget that josh smith is the reason we're about to lose a 1st rounder within the next year...

[sc8581]

don't forget that josh smith is the reason we're about to lose a 1st rounder within the next year...

Wrong. Dumars and/or Gores are the reason for that debacle.

[jakebernat]

don't forget that josh smith is the reason we're about to lose a 1st rounder within the next year...

Wrong. Dumars and/or Gores are the reason for that debacle.

well now you're just arguing semantics. both are true.

[sc8581]

don't forget that josh smith is the reason we're about to lose a 1st rounder within the next year...

Wrong. Dumars and/or Gores are the reason for that debacle.

well now you're just arguing semantics. both are true.

In no way is Smith the "reason" or at fault for Dumars not only making such a horrible deal but also signing Smith on top of it, if Gores wasn't cheap he could have amnestied BG and we never even have to think about such a trade ever happening.

[tetris]

I'd rather have Tayshaun. At least he knows he sucks.

[MotownMadness]

Smith doing to much inneficiently and selfishly is more ineffective than the way Prince is playing. Smith is making everyone around him worse and stunting his teammates on the court.

[sc8581]

Smith doing to much inneficiently and selfishly is more ineffective than the way Prince is playing. Smith is making everyone around him worse and stunting his teammates on the court.

Monroe is more efficient with Smith out there

[E-Z]

Smith is salvageable given the right system. Detroit isn't the place right now, and probably not in the foreseeable future. Tayshaun is just beyond usefulness at this stage of his career.

[jakebernat]

In no way is Smith the "reason" or at fault for Dumars not only making such a horrible deal but also signing Smith on top of it, if Gores wasn't cheap he could have amnestied BG and we never even have to think about such a trade ever happening.

blah blah blah. we gave up a 1st rounder for cap space which we used to sign smith. is that PC enough for you??

[MotownMadness]

Smith doing to much inneficiently and selfishly is more ineffective than the way Prince is playing. Smith is making everyone around him worse and stunting his teammates on the court.

Monroe is more efficient with Smith out there

I'm sure he would be more efficient with any sort of legit SF out there. What can Smith possibly provide to make Monroe more efficient that no one else could?

[mercury]

I'd rather have Tayshaun. At least he knows he sucks.

That's a knee slapper

[sc8581]

Smith doing to much inneficiently and selfishly is more ineffective than the way Prince is playing. Smith is making everyone around him worse and stunting his teammates on the court.

Monroe is more efficient with Smith out there

I'm sure he would be more efficient with any sort of legit SF out there. What can Smith possibly provide to make Monroe more efficient that no one else could?

You said Smith is making everyone around him worse, are you denying this now?

[MotownMadness]

Monroe is more efficient with Smith out there

I'm sure he would be more efficient with any sort of legit SF out there. What can Smith possibly provide to make Monroe more efficient that no one else could?

You said Smith is making everyone around him worse, are you denying this now?

That's a very small sample size. The whole team has played all season with Smith dominating the ball to then going out there in the last six games without him and a dumbass interim head coach. I'm sure they would need a lot more mental recovery time with no Smith than that. Monroe had a couple bad games to mess up his FG% in that small stretch but he also had some really good games like the OKC game. Do you wanna pull up a couple of Smiths numbers from small stretches from throughout the season? They might make you puke a little bit. Not to mention I seen Monroe all last year as the number 1 option on a no talent team and he looked a lot better than Smith as a number 1 option on a much more talented team.

[sc8581]

I'm sure he would be more efficient with any sort of legit SF out there. What can Smith possibly provide to make Monroe more efficient that no one else could?

You said Smith is making everyone around him worse, are you denying this now?

That's a very small sample size. The whole team has played all season with Smith dominating the ball to then going out there in the last six games without him and a dumbass interim head coach. I'm sure they would need a lot more mental recovery time with no Smith than that. Monroe had a couple bad games to mess up his FG% in that small stretch but he also had some really good games like the OKC game. Do you wanna pull up a couple of Smiths numbers from small stretches from throughout the season? They might make you puke a little bit. Not to mention I seen Monroe all last year as the number 1 option on a no talent team and he looked a lot better than Smith as a number 1 option on a much more talented team.

It wasn't the last 6 games, it was the last 5 plus a game against Atlanta earlier in the season, your bad joke amount mental recovery doesn't make your statement true.

Monroe had 22pts on 19 shots against OKC, that's not good for a guy that camps out in the paint. He had one game where he scored efficiently in those last 5, the other 4 he went 29-70 for 41% averaging 16.25pts on 17.5 shots, disgusting. Including that good game he had he averaged 17.6ppg on 16.6 shots, 9.0rpg 3.2apg and 2.8 turnovers, looks similar to what Smith did all year doesn't it?

[MotownMadness]

You said Smith is making everyone around him worse, are you denying this now?

That's a very small sample size. The whole team has played all season with Smith dominating the ball to then going out there in the last six games without him and a dumbass interim head coach. I'm sure they would need a lot more mental recovery time with no Smith than that. Monroe had a couple bad games to mess up his FG% in that small stretch but he also had some really good games like the OKC game. Do you wanna pull up a couple of Smiths numbers from small stretches from throughout the season? They might make you puke a little bit. Not to mention I seen Monroe all last year as the number 1 option on a no talent team and he looked a lot better than Smith as a number 1 option on a much more talented team.

It wasn't the last 6 games, it was the last 5 plus a game against Atlanta earlier in the season, your bad joke amount mental recovery doesn't make your statement true.

Monroe had 22pts on 19 shots against OKC, that's not good for a guy that camps out in the paint. He had one game where he scored efficiently in those last 5, the other 4 he went 29-70 for 41% averaging 16.25pts on 17.5 shots, disgusting. Including that good game he had he averaged 17.6ppg on 16.6 shots, 9.0rpg 3.2apg and 2.8 turnovers, looks similar to what Smith did all year doesn't it?

You can try and pull up whatever stats you want and throw it at me and I'll never be convinced of Smith. If you really can sit and watch Josh Smiths approach to the game of basketball and not see a huge problem then you should probably just find another sport because your not really understanding what not to do in this one.

Monroe has his flaws and I'm not as high on him as most. But Josh Smith is just terrible and you trying to make excuses for his complete stupidity on a basketball court is just as sad. I can overlook players for missing some shots they should be taking within the offense every once and awhile but I will never stand for this crap that Smith is doing on offense with all these low% shots with time on the clock that not even the best SFs and PFs would attempt. You can't fix stupid and unfortunately that's exactly where you would find a nice little picture of your boy Smith in a dictionary.

[DBC10]

Sample size people, anyone using a 5 game metric to prove their point or uses it to compare someone of Smith's magnitude of inefficiency is terrible exploitation of statistics. It simply does not hold water and honestly it's been one of the biggest grasps in straws from Monroe critics.

Same reason why I don't proclaim Dre is the next Shaq if he averages 25/10 on his next 5 games on 60% shooting since that's a terrible way to misuse data to fit some frame of an argument based on puny sample without accounting for variables and proper context.

This is the reality with actual documented sample sizes and accounts for more variables than the hilarious 5 game stat:

Greg's TS%: 53.1% which is around or slightly above league average
eFG%: 49.7% which is around or slightly less league average

Borrowing some gold from HeroicKennedy:

Since 1980, only ten players have averaged 15+ FGAs per game and had a TS% below .465. Of those 10, only 2 have appeared in at least 60 games. Most of them played 40 games or less. Half less than 28 games. (Josh Smith)

Jefferson needed 28 shots to get 32 points. You know what Greg Monroe's stats are when he gets 20+ shots?
26.3 points
11.3 rebounds
3.1 assists
.556 TS%

Obviously this one probably needs to be adjusted to account for more games in which he did have 20+ more shot attempts, but should not be drastically affected one way or another.

And I already posted Smith's awful numbers in comparison earlier in a different thread. Then again, Flip/Q did the same small game sample to criticize Harden when he first played as a Rocket to somehow make it seem like Harden was the same player as Stuckey. I'm not even surprised he's going down the ship in the same manner.

[Q00]

Sample size people, anyone using a 5 game metric to prove their point or uses it to compare someone of Smith's magnitude of inefficiency is terrible exploitation of statistics. It simply does not hold water and honestly it's been one of the biggest grasps in straws from Monroe critics.


Borrowing some gold from HeroicKennedy:

Jefferson needed 28 shots to get 32 points. You know what Greg Monroe's stats are when he gets 20+ shots?
26.3 points
11.3 rebounds
3.1 assists
.556 TS%

Just so you know, those stats on Monroe getting 20+ shots were based on a 10 game sample.

[sc8581]

That's a very small sample size. The whole team has played all season with Smith dominating the ball to then going out there in the last six games without him and a dumbass interim head coach. I'm sure they would need a lot more mental recovery time with no Smith than that. Monroe had a couple bad games to mess up his FG% in that small stretch but he also had some really good games like the OKC game. Do you wanna pull up a couple of Smiths numbers from small stretches from throughout the season? They might make you puke a little bit. Not to mention I seen Monroe all last year as the number 1 option on a no talent team and he looked a lot better than Smith as a number 1 option on a much more talented team.

It wasn't the last 6 games, it was the last 5 plus a game against Atlanta earlier in the season, your bad joke amount mental recovery doesn't make your statement true.

Monroe had 22pts on 19 shots against OKC, that's not good for a guy that camps out in the paint. He had one game where he scored efficiently in those last 5, the other 4 he went 29-70 for 41% averaging 16.25pts on 17.5 shots, disgusting. Including that good game he had he averaged 17.6ppg on 16.6 shots, 9.0rpg 3.2apg and 2.8 turnovers, looks similar to what Smith did all year doesn't it?

You can try and pull up whatever stats you want and throw it at me and I'll never be convinced of Smith. If you really can sit and watch Josh Smiths approach to the game of basketball and not see a huge problem then you should probably just find another sport because your not really understanding what not to do in this one.

Monroe has his flaws and I'm not as high on him as most. But Josh Smith is just terrible and you trying to make excuses for his complete stupidity on a basketball court is just as sad. I can overlook players for missing some shots they should be taking within the offense every once and awhile but I will never stand for this crap that Smith is doing on offense with all these low% shots with time on the clock that not even the best SFs and PFs would attempt. You can't fix stupid and unfortunately that's exactly where you would find a nice little picture of your boy Smith in a dictionary.

I'm not defending Smith, I'm just telling you Monroe is not any better and locking him up would be cap suicide.

[MotownMadness]

It wasn't the last 6 games, it was the last 5 plus a game against Atlanta earlier in the season, your bad joke amount mental recovery doesn't make your statement true.

Monroe had 22pts on 19 shots against OKC, that's not good for a guy that camps out in the paint. He had one game where he scored efficiently in those last 5, the other 4 he went 29-70 for 41% averaging 16.25pts on 17.5 shots, disgusting. Including that good game he had he averaged 17.6ppg on 16.6 shots, 9.0rpg 3.2apg and 2.8 turnovers, looks similar to what Smith did all year doesn't it?

You can try and pull up whatever stats you want and throw it at me and I'll never be convinced of Smith. If you really can sit and watch Josh Smiths approach to the game of basketball and not see a huge problem then you should probably just find another sport because your not really understanding what not to do in this one.

Monroe has his flaws and I'm not as high on him as most. But Josh Smith is just terrible and you trying to make excuses for his complete stupidity on a basketball court is just as sad. I can overlook players for missing some shots they should be taking within the offense every once and awhile but I will never stand for this crap that Smith is doing on offense with all these low% shots with time on the clock that not even the best SFs and PFs would attempt. You can't fix stupid and unfortunately that's exactly where you would find a nice little picture of your boy Smith in a dictionary.

I'm not defending Smith, I'm just telling you Monroe is not any better and locking him up would be cap suicide.

Monroe is better though. Smith has more talent than Monroe and probably 75% of the league but with the way he plays he's one of the worst players in the league. I do agree with the signing Monroe to a big deal really hurting us if we can't trade Smith though. Dumars already made the mistake of bringing in Smith and if we can't trade him than signing Monroe to a big deal will really handicap us from improving when we have so many things that need corrected. But If I had the choice I would take Monroe over Smith 10/10 times. But yeah it would be really dumb to spend all our money this offseason on the same damn product we just seen struggle all year.