PER stats 2013-14 season

Post #1 » by **theBigLip** » Tue May 6, 2014 9:48 pm

Not sure how much you like analytics and stats, but thought these might be interesting. Rankings are per position.

PG: Jennings 15.67 (24th)
SG: Stuckey 14.04 (27th)
SF: Smith 14.10 (17th)
PF: Monroe 18.16 (21st)
C: Drummond 22.65 (4th)

ImHeisenberg · Post #2 » by **ImHeisenberg** » Tue May 6, 2014 10:35 pm

One good center, and 4 below average starters.

I'm surprised Smith ranked at 17th best in any metric. I would have pegged him as a bottom 5 player at small forward.

Post #3 » by **theBigLip** » Tue May 6, 2014 11:10 pm

This explains a lot. Paying 8M a year for the 24th best PG, 8.5M for the 27th best SG, and 14.0M for the 17th best SF, which he really isn't. A very, very poor use of cap space, or poor coaching, or both.

Post #4 » by **dVs33** » Wed May 7, 2014 12:05 am

The rankings are a little misleading because Monroe and smith don't play at PF and SF exclusively.
stuckey played off the bench most games too.
Not much to say about Jennings though. haha Drummond, of course, is a beast.

MotownMadness · Post #5 » by **MotownMadness** » Wed May 7, 2014 3:52 am

Drummond is such a beast!!!

paQo the BAWSER · Post #6 » by **paQo the BAWSER** » Wed May 7, 2014 12:25 pm

Smith as PF >>>>> Monroe as PF

tetris · Post #7 » by **tetris** » Wed May 7, 2014 1:21 pm

Jennings has a higher PER than Rondo and Calderon...

Q00 · Post #8 » by **Q00** » Wed May 7, 2014 2:23 pm

theBigLip wrote:This explains a lot. Paying 8M a year for the 24th best PG, 8.5M for the 27th best SG, and 14.0M for the 17th best SF, which he really isn't. A very, very poor use of cap space, or poor coaching, or both.

If you're going to use PER to portray Jennings and Stuckey in a negative light, as 24th and 27th ranked players, but then say its not accurate in regards to Smith's ranking, it kind of discredits Jennings and Stuckey's rankings too.

Q00 · Post #9 » by **Q00** » Wed May 7, 2014 2:26 pm

tetris wrote:Jennings has a higher PER than Rondo and Calderon...

Rondo shouldn't really count as he only played a portion of the year, but its interesting to hear Jennings had a higher PER than Calderon. I didn't know that.

HotelVitale · Post #10 » by **HotelVitale** » Wed May 7, 2014 3:40 pm

theBigLip wrote:Not sure how much you like analytics and stats, but thought these might be interesting. Rankings are per position.

PG: Jennings 15.67 (24th)
SG: Stuckey 14.04 (27th)
SF: Smith 14.10 (17th)
PF: Monroe 18.16 (21st)
C: Drummond 22.65 (4th)

You know what the funny thing is? Over the past few years, Smith and Jennings have actually been poster boys for the imperfection of PER, because it overvalues usage and players who take up possessions. In other words, these numbers are actually overrating their performance this year. Grumble.

If you look at win shares per minute, Josh Smith was 391st in the league and Jennings was 274th. (Calderon was 117).

Post #11 » by **theBigLip** » Wed May 7, 2014 4:13 pm

Q00 wrote:
theBigLip wrote:This explains a lot. Paying 8M a year for the 24th best PG, 8.5M for the 27th best SG, and 14.0M for the 17th best SF, which he really isn't. A very, very poor use of cap space, or poor coaching, or both.

If you're going to use PER to portray Jennings and Stuckey in a negative light, as 24th and 27th ranked players, but then say its not accurate in regards to Smith's ranking, it kind of discredits Jennings and Stuckey's rankings too.

That's not what I was saying about Smith. I was saying they have him listed as a SF, which we know now he isn't. But the PER is still relevant.

Q00 · Post #12 » by **Q00** » Wed May 7, 2014 4:18 pm

theBigLip wrote:
Q00 wrote:
theBigLip wrote:This explains a lot. Paying 8M a year for the 24th best PG, 8.5M for the 27th best SG, and 14.0M for the 17th best SF, which he really isn't. A very, very poor use of cap space, or poor coaching, or both.

If you're going to use PER to portray Jennings and Stuckey in a negative light, as 24th and 27th ranked players, but then say its not accurate in regards to Smith's ranking, it kind of discredits Jennings and Stuckey's rankings too.

That's not what I was saying about Smith. I was saying they have him listed as a SF, which we know now he isn't. But the PER is still relevant.

yeah, that's true. He did play most of his minutes at PF.

Clarity · Post #13 » by **Clarity** » Wed May 7, 2014 4:21 pm

People who form an entire opinion off of stats are funny.

If you look at win shares per minute, Josh Smith was 391st in the league and Jennings was 274th. (Calderon was 117).

Oh

E-Z · Post #14 » by **E-Z** » Wed May 7, 2014 5:12 pm

PER isn't that great of a statistic as it's biased towards raw offensive production. It's a raw number, in light of other statistics we have to see the impact of a player's production.

Here are better barometers imo:

Win Shares Per 48 minutes (For those with at least 1000 minutes):

For reference:

Michael Jordan: .2505
Kevin Garnett: .1849
Byron Scott: .1197

Andre Drummond: .182
Greg Monroe: .106
Kyle Singler: .090
Brandon Jennings: .068
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope: .055
Rodney Stuckey: .053
Will Bynum: .047
Josh Smith: .020

nERD rankings

For Reference:

Kevin Durant: 27.0
Carmelo Anthony: 9.9
Roy Hibbert: 1.2
Michael Carter-Williams: -8.1

Andre Drummond: 9.0
Greg Monroe: 1.1
Kyle Singler: -0.7
Will Bynum: -2.6
Kentavious Caldwell-Pope: -2.8
Rodney Stuckey: -3.4
Brandon Jennings: -4.2
Josh Smith: -9.8 (2nd worst player in the NBA by .1 point)

In other words, Detroit had 1 great player and 1 good player this past season.

E-Z · Post #15 » by **E-Z** » Wed May 7, 2014 5:34 pm

In regards to PER again, this reference guide still does a solid job of wrapping up the players on the Detroit Pistons, or any team for that matter.

Again, one great player, one good, and the rest could see the way out.

sc8581 · Post #16 » by **sc8581** » Wed May 7, 2014 6:16 pm

Obviously none of you get it smh

c rasheed · Post #17 » by **c rasheed** » Wed May 7, 2014 6:41 pm

Looks like we dodged a bullet in Iggy only to get shot in the leg by Josh Smith.

Uncle Mxy · Post #18 » by **Uncle Mxy** » Thu May 8, 2014 1:26 pm

A 15 PER is "NBA normal". If the PER calculations make sense, then with an entire team of 15 PER people, we should have a record that is somewhere around 41-41. I haven't crunched the numbers fully and don't plan to, but it seems like we ought to have a slightly >15 PER average starting lineup (though unsure how Singler and Kid Can't Play) drag us down). We didn't have significant injury to our starting 5 (unless you count Josh Smith's brain damage). Yet we were clearly nowhere near 41-41. Whazzup??

I think you really have to measure the PER of the opposition against us. That's when you start getting some sense where the suckage sticks out -- Singler can't defend at SG, Moose can't defend at PF but is probably ok at C, Josh Smith is potentially ok defending at SF but can't play offense like an SF should. Of course, this is a team sport and PER doesn't necessarily capture that dynamic. But some stuff really stands out just from the individual PER numbers that passes "the eye test".

Pharaoh · Post #19 » by **Pharaoh** » Thu May 8, 2014 1:42 pm

The numbers show what we know:

Drummond was a beast, Monroe had a reasonable season, everyone else was either terrible, below average or average.

How much do we blame coaching?

How much do we blame lack of spacing?

I don't believe the majority of our guys are that bad...just poorly coached.

It is possible to make the Drummond/Monroe/Smith combo work...and you don't have to start one off the bench

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E-Z · Post #20 » by **E-Z** » Thu May 8, 2014 4:03 pm

This team has preformed like a sum of its parts since Chauncy was traded. The Pistons have won games based on raw talent and athleticism. Coaching is definitely one part of the equation as far as defense is concenered. However, the Pistons have some terrible players on offense, which is no secret.

Stuckey, Jennings, Smith, and Bynum have been net negatives on offense. Some of these guys games are so fundamentally broken at this stage of their careers, it might be a point of no return for whichever team takes them. Only a HOF caliber coach could fit them into a scheme off the bench. I just would like to see these guys off the team. The roster needs to be simple. No more tweener guards and forwards. Make coaching easier for whoever that comes in.