Even though we have been patient, this is a 5 year plan

Post #1 » by **theBigLip** » Mon Dec 8, 2014 6:49 am

I hated typing in the title to this thread. But SVG is under a 5 year plan. We've been praying for ping pong balls, good trades and free agency signings the last several years, but that wasn't SVG's plan. I'm sure he didn't promise Gores the playoffs this year, even though I though he would make magic in his first year. So what does this mean?

Monroe walks. For nothing. He doesn't fit with Drummond, he positioned himself to leave next summer, and unless a miracle happens, I'm sure he's gone.

Smith and Jennings don't have to be traded. They can just play out their contracts. If a good trade comes along, I'm sure SVG will pull the trigger. But most likely, they are going to be Pistons for awhile longer.

It looks like we're going to build through draft picks and smart free agency pickups. Unfortunately, we haven't been able to use Meeks. And the others may have been an overpay, but SVG needed to clean up the lockerroom and this didn't cost us big long term dollars. I would expect more solid players coming in, but no superstars via free agency.

And the draft? Well that certainly seems like we're going to get a future star this year, and very likely next year too.

So we keep developing Drummond, and for the next couple of years, get some great players in the draft, a few solid free agents, and in the 2017-18 season, we'll be ready to kick ass. Until then, this is going to be ugly.

Pharaoh · Post #2 » by **Pharaoh** » Mon Dec 8, 2014 8:24 am

I don't think it will take that long

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Post #3 » by **theBigLip** » Mon Dec 8, 2014 5:40 pm

Pharaoh wrote:I don't think it will take that long

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I hope not. But it seems like we're not in a hurry to make a trade to change anything.

Piston Pete · Post #4 » by **Piston Pete** » Mon Dec 8, 2014 5:56 pm

Between the high pick (at least this offseason) and SVG spending cap space wisely (unlike Dumars), we could be a very-much improved team as soon as next season.

We really should be targeting being a very competitive team in the East within 3 years....built around Drummond, KCP, and whoever we draft this offseason - with cap space/trades for pieces around them.

ImHeisenberg · Post #5 » by **ImHeisenberg** » Mon Dec 8, 2014 6:54 pm

Pharaoh wrote:I don't think it will take that long

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People keep saying that every year, don't they?

Lip is right- this is the first step under SVG. Dumars only kept this team entrenched in mediocrity. Drummond has promise- but like Monroe, he's a limited player that needs specific pieces around him to be able to excel, and vice versa.

As of today, the Pistons don't have a franchise player, no specific player to build around. You can hail Drummond all you like, at his peak he may be an elite defender, but he'll always be a guy who gets his offense off lobs and garbage buckets.

After Drummond, it's a bunch of players we're waiting for their contracts to expire and misfits.

SVG is basically starting from scratch, with an albatross contract in Smith, and a player who thinks he's an alpha and is clearly not.

This team has a long way to go, and isn't going to find any real traction until they can get a couple of players in here that can actually put an inflated spherical object through a metal ring with some kind of consistency, because this current lot can't hit the broad side of a barn.

Nice post, Lip. I agree, 100%

princeofpalace · Post #6 » by **princeofpalace** » Mon Dec 8, 2014 7:39 pm

I agree it will take us 5 years at least to return to relevance but i do not believe this is what SVG or Gores had planned, it was clear in the off season that both expected the playoffs. But because this season is a disaster, I think now we must rebuild through free agency and the draft.

ImHeisenberg · Post #7 » by **ImHeisenberg** » Mon Dec 8, 2014 8:12 pm

princeofpalace wrote:I agree it will take us 5 years at least to return to relevance but i do not believe this is what SVG or Gores had planned, it was clear in the off season that both expected the playoffs. But because this season is a disaster, I think now we must rebuild through free agency and the draft.

Unless a transformative trade presents itself- something like trading Smith for a top 20 player (which will never happen), Detroit needs to consider trading off some players and looking towards the draft. I doubt SVG will swallow his pride and tank. As a coach, that would have to be a difficult play to make. Such is the difficulty of the dual roles he has.

Sure, Popovich and Doc Rivers have done the job (or are doing the job), but they don't have a team full of losers like SVG and don't have to make the tough calls to jettison players or tank for a draft pick.

The smart play would to trade players that can get Detroit some future assets back. Singler should be able to fetch a late first round pick or early 2nd rounder, he's a rotation player on a good team that can shoot the 3. Datome, Mitchell, and Butler could all be useful for a team looking to dodge the luxury tax and willing incentivize a pick to take on a longer contract.

Monroe is Detroit's best asset, but they would have to convince him to waive his no-trade clause. Which is possible if SVG tells him that they'll renounce his rights anyways in July, thus killing his bird rights anyways.

Detroit's in a tough spot. They're going to need to get worse (if that's possible) if they really want to get better. The question is- Does Stan have the balls to do it?

princeofpalace · Post #8 » by **princeofpalace** » Mon Dec 8, 2014 8:15 pm

No team will give up anything for Monroe since he can walk at season's end and teams won't have the bird rights to go over the cap and resign him. We need to stop pretending like we will get a good return for Greg, its not happening.

Drummond and KCP are our only trade chips.

ImHeisenberg · Post #9 » by **ImHeisenberg** » Mon Dec 8, 2014 8:28 pm

princeofpalace wrote:No team will give up anything for Monroe since he can walk at season's end and teams won't have the bird rights to go over the cap and resign him. We need to stop pretending like we will get a good return for Greg, its not happening.

Drummond and KCP are our only trade chips.

THANK YOU!

95% of this board has no clue what bird rights are, and the simple fact that Greg has a no-trade clause. They keep throwing him in all their 2K trades, and doesn't make a lick of sense.

whitehops · Post #10 » by **whitehops** » Mon Dec 8, 2014 9:10 pm

I expect this offseason to be similar to the one before this season.

we don't have anyone we have to resign, although I would like us to resign jerebko and singler to reasonable deals. whether or not they pick up butler's team option doesn't matter much imo, although we probably could find a better player in free agency with 4.5 mil.

I expect us to make some small to mid singings in free agency, probably add more depth and keep our financial flexibility open.

we let Monroe walk, I personally wouldn't pay him anything substantial anyways. we could sign a backup PF/C with the money we save.

we actually have a first rounder this year, and it's shaping up to be at least top 10.

the roster could look something like:
Jennings/Dinwiddie
KCP/meeks
draft pick/FA/singler
smith/JJ/FA
Drummond/FA

then have augustin, martin and Mitchell as the last on the 15 man roster. I could see them cutting Mitchell and keeping their second round pick on the 15-man roster, who knows though.

the offseason going into the 2016-2017 season is gonna be a fun one. Jennings comes off the books, Drummond is up for his extension (although they'll likely get agree to one this offseason coming up) and smith goes into the last year of his contract which makes his contract much easier to trade, especially since the cap should skyrocket by then.

TL;DR: the next two years are probably going to be ugly but this team is set up to be in great shape after that, especially if SVG keeps up the culture he wants this franchise to have.

ImHeisenberg · Post #11 » by **ImHeisenberg** » Mon Dec 8, 2014 9:15 pm

whitehops wrote:
TL;DR: the next two years are probably going to be ugly but this team is set up to be in great shape after that, especially if SVG keeps up the culture he wants this franchise to have.

It all boils down to how SVG and Bower shape this team with the cap space, picks and potential trade opportunities. That's it. This team needs better players across the board. If anyone is waiting around for some miraculous internal development turning this team around, it's not going to happen.

Good post, Whitehops. I look forward to your Detroit vs Portland game thread.

jimmybuckets21 · Post #12 » by **jimmybuckets21** » Mon Dec 8, 2014 9:15 pm

Jennings is garbage. Not fundamentally sound. Can't even make a layup with his right hand. He should just go on the and1 tour. Noteam in their riright mind would want this guy as a starstarting pg.

-Jerry SUCKhouse

jakebernat · Post #13 » by **jakebernat** » Mon Dec 8, 2014 10:44 pm

well, considering this is the first year we've actually spent developing our young talent in over a decade, i'd think this is a solid assessment. think about it, drummond spent his rookie season playing behind jason f/ucking maxiell. KCP was, for whatever reason, stuck behind stuckey and singler in the rotation. knight was forced into a starting role right away, but we literally gave up developing him after only two seasons because dumars wanted to "win now".

the only talent we have really developed over the years is monroe, and we couldn't even do that right, as he and drummond never got/will get a fair chance to develop together.

however, the optimist in me does believe that a few good draft picks, trades (smith and jennings), and FA signings can right this ship sooner rather than later. the foundation is there for a good team, but the growing pains are blatantly evident right now. at least this time around, we're bad because we're trying to improve our young core and not because we're capped out with no young talent.

just to add to that FA sentiment, tobias harris would sure look good next to drummond...

jakebernat · Post #14 » by **jakebernat** » Mon Dec 8, 2014 10:47 pm

ImHeisenberg wrote:If anyone is waiting around for some miraculous internal development turning this team around, it's not going to happen.

don't know that i agree with that. sure, we have a need at PG, SF, and probably PF, but if you don't think the development of drummond and KCP is going to be huge in turning this team around, then why are they even on the team?

also, i wouldn't call them improving "miraculous".

TurboTitan · Post #15 » by **TurboTitan** » Mon Dec 8, 2014 11:47 pm

I can't handle 5 years of losing

The Penguin · Post #16 » by **The Penguin** » Tue Dec 9, 2014 12:15 am

It's one thing for us to recognize its a 5 year plan to build this thing right, but I'm not convinced Gores sees it that way. I think the only thing he cares about is the bottom line and filling the Palace back up. Hopefully he comes to understand an 8 seed an a 1st round sweep is not going to have much impact at all when it comes to getting the turnstile spinning.

As for Monroe, we've gotta move him for anything. I fully recognize it will take cap room for the acquiring team to resign him, but I would have to imagine he would rather be elsewhere ASAP and places like NY and San Antonio have cap room this summer and likely wouldn't mind seeing him up close for a few months. Trade him for Shumpert or Danny Green.

wire28 · Post #17 » by **wire28** » Tue Dec 9, 2014 12:47 am

5 year plan is every guy's line when they take over a group of losers. we could be trash for the next 30 years. unless your LA and everyone is going to want to come to your city eventually, you have no guarantees.

Mo-Town wrote:I can't handle 5 years of losing

well we've been losers for a while now so i suppose you mean 5 years of being the laughingstock of the league type of losing

Blkbrd671 · Post #18 » by **Blkbrd671** » Tue Dec 9, 2014 12:52 am

Great thread Big, however i do contest one of your points. Josh smith has to be traded!

If our 5 year plan includes dre, we need Smith off this team asap. While others point to his stupidity on the court and lack of compliment skillls to dre. i am merely pointing to the fact that Gore wants our fan base to return to the pistons, i think our fan base has had it with Smith, and that secretly so have some of our players specifically Dre. If we are even to have a 5 year plan, we need to have dre for 5 years, i don't think dre's goign to want to stay for 5 years to watch smith ignore him in the low post to take a fadeaway jumper

Defor · Post #19 » by **Defor** » Tue Dec 9, 2014 12:59 am

As posted above , agree 100% Smith has to go asap for the resons above, and also his laziness on defense is starting to rub off on Dre.

Blkbrd671 · Post #20 » by **Blkbrd671** » Tue Dec 9, 2014 1:07 am

Defor wrote:As posted above , agree 100% Smith has to go asap for the resons above, and also his laziness on defense is starting to rub off on Dre.

i've actually been mostly pleased with smith defensively, Dre has been probably the laziest defensive player, and that is more to do with his frustration than smith