Raptors Fan observations from game 12/19 (concerning)

[rarefind]

Hey guys,

Flame, or merge this elsewhere but I thought I'd bring this to your attention.

Made the drive in, pretty good seats sec 116 row AA. Had an excellent time, your fanbase was pleasant and not crude which was pretty cool. Anyway - the point of my post.

There was a cool Pistons fan behind me, we were talking a bit, just shooting the sh**. Put a small wager on the game's outcome but as the game proceeded through the second half he became incredibly frustrated with the play and started directing his frustrations (respectfully, had a child next to him) towards the Pistons' players and bench.

After a few minutes, a Palace security guard came over and asked him to stop. Citing, the players have voiced their opinion of him becoming a bother to them. He continued, prompting another visit telling him that the coach will coach the team. The man told the security guard that he was tired of the losing and if the players were getting frustrated imagine him, a paying attendant of the game was frustrated too. So he didn't stop until a third visit from a more senior guard telling him to stop or he would be removed from the game. With this, and me urging him to just relax; he did. Do keep in mind a Raptors fan was tossed right around this point for taunting Josh Smith. And believe me, it was nothing excessive. He simply said to Smith "keep on shooting." Smith identified the fan to security and he was removed. The main thing here is not it seeming that security made the call to do this themselves but rather at the direction of the Pistons' players (not sure who specifically).

Interestingly, after the game a Pistons employee (not wearing a palace symbol on his shirt but rather a Pistons logo) approached the man behind me telling him that tonight's performance was unacceptable and that he had every right to be upset proceeding to ask for his contact info. I just thought this whole process was ridiculous as this man behind me was as respectable as possible throughout the night but just frustrated with the effort in the second half. He was cheering as loudly as anyone in our section when the Pistons were up.

Anyway, not sure if you would've preferred this in the GT so merge as you wish, wanted to bring this to your guys attention so you know the kind of crap that is going on behind the scenes. Players being coddled and taught that they can mail it in without hearing it from the crowd wouldn't be the type of players I want on my team's roster.

Best of luck for the rest of the year, I HOPE you guys get Coach Malone. Sitting close to the Pistons bench made me realize that SVG does not have the ear of your Pistons club at all, he's lost the group in December.

[gusman]

There is a video on YouTube of a fan telling brandon Jennings that he sucks as he comes out of the tunnel. Then brandon turns to the fan and tells him he sucks. These players are babies. Not van gundys fault. He inherited a flawed group of players.


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[Ghost]

"He's lost the group in December."

Like, oh well.. there wasn't much to lose lmao. Like 95% of us here want everybody on the team gone, except for Drummond, Jerebko, Singler, KCP, Meeks and Dinwiddie. Those 6 are the only guys who have avoided the chopping block. (Not saying that's who we want to start, but I think Jerebko and Singler could be back end of the rotation of a good team.. so why not keep them around since they work hard and are smart). (BUTLER doesn't count since he's too old for us).

Massive overhaul and a culture change is necessary. Getting SVG was just a smart start in the right direction... now we got to get rid of some people or get a alpha dog/leader in the lineup to bring it together. Our draft pick HAS TO BE THAT GUY, or we somehow have to find the next Kyle Lowry and rob somebody. No more drafting soft spoken players like Monroe, KCP, Drummond, I want someone with some fire to be THE GUY on the floor for SVG. Someone who can also demand everyone's attention and rally the troops. *Not a **** nutjob either, someone who is calculated and gets it.
I am completely against attachments to Smith to get rid of him. If he becomes more of a problem, or Jennings does, and literally nobody will trade for him (we pass the deadline), I'm completely fine with DNP-COACHES DECISION. Let them rot.

[Snakebites]

Every coach loses this group.

This group can't be found.

Yes, I've made this joke with each of the last 3 coaches we've had, but it really does bear repeating.

You guys ever have a class in high school where no matter what the teacher did, the kids acted like jerks no matter what? This team is that class. The more I see from this group the less inclined I am to blame coaches ever again.

A new coach isn't the answer. We've already got a good one. He's just experiencing backlash because he's coaching a team of ingrates and babies who won't listen to him. I echo what someone else said. Let them rot.

[hoophabit]

Yes! Pistons don't ditch SVG, rather they cut out the dead wood!

[kurtis48239]

Like others have said,stan inherited this group.it also happens to have the biggest self absorbed,cry baby,pre maddona,low iq,chuckers in the Nba,in smith and jennings.Definitly not his fault.You dont throw away a coach like stan,because of this **** show.You tank,and start new next year.

Jennings can be the new ben gordon and smith the new charlie,If he keeps his **** up,then its dnp land for those 2 and let them rot.....

Hmmm,its been said in here alot,but "let them rot"should be the new slogan around here.

[Pharaoh]

SVG isn't the problem.

Monroe not being a leader is a problem, Smith cashing retirement cheques is the problem.

Jennings was at least trying prior to his injury but he'll never be what we want him to be

Stan brought in Butler, Martin & Anthony for this very reason

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[DBC10]

Stan knew what it was going to take when he inherited this roster from Father Dumars who got one of the dim-witted and immature players in Josh "Don't talk to me about Dreads" Smith and Brandon "clubbing with x in my veins" Jennings.

It's unfortunate SVG is seeing first hand of what Cheeks saw last year, even though Cheeks was an awful coach.

[MrBigShot]

SVG isn't the problem.

Monroe not being a leader is a problem, Smith cashing retirement cheques is the problem.

Jennings was at least trying prior to his injury but he'll never be what we want him to be

Stan brought in Butler, Martin & Anthony for this very reason

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I wouldn't say Monroe not being a leader a problem. I've been very critical of Moose and his lack of development since his 2nd year, but I don't think that he is responsible for our bad culture. The guy has been a professional for the most part and not said anything after being benched even though the guy starting ahead of him is garbage. And he stuck up for his teammate in the middle of a scuffle even though it's more than likely he's gone after this season. He's clearly not a #1/2 option that can put the team on his back and elevate the game of other players around him and he has his shortcomings defensively, but he's not the type of player that negatively influences team culture. And we'll see that if/when he goes to a better situation.

The only "problems" on our team are the brick brothers Josh Smith and Brandon Jennings. We definitely need more talent(bit of an understatement..) but as far as team culture is concerned, it's on these two guys. They suck and they've proved it over the last near season and half. Getting rid of them will be a big step forward.

[DBC10]

SVG isn't the problem.

Monroe not being a leader is a problem, Smith cashing retirement cheques is the problem.

Jennings was at least trying prior to his injury but he'll never be what we want him to be

Stan brought in Butler, Martin & Anthony for this very reason

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I wouldn't say Monroe not being a leader a problem. I've been very critical of Moose and his lack of development since his 2nd year, but I don't think that he is responsible for our bad culture. The guy has been a professional for the most part and not said anything after being benched even though the guy starting ahead of him is garbage. And he stuck up for his teammate in the middle of a scuffle even though it's more than likely he's gone after this season. He's clearly not a #1/2 option that can put the team on his back and elevate the game of other players around him and he has his shortcomings defensively, but he's not the type of player that negatively influences team culture. And we'll see that if/when he goes to a better situation.

The only "problems" on our team are the brick brothers Josh Smith and Brandon Jennings. We definitely need more talent(bit of an understatement..) but as far as team culture is concerned, it's on these two guys. They suck and they've proved it over the last near season and half. Getting rid of them will be a big step forward.

Yeah, besides the drunk thing back in summer, he's never exhibited any bad attitude issues since being here. I have no idea what people mean when they try to implicate otherwise.

[kurtis48239]

Go hard after dragic in the off season.

[Dennis 37]

Pardon my observation, but I think everyone missed the main point of the OP. Not that the coach has lost the team, but that Piston fans have lost the right to criticize their team. At the end of Bargnani's term with the Raptors he was mercilessly booed by a majority of the fan base. The players were upset by this and even tried to impress on the fans that as long as Bargs was a Raptor, we should support him. The fans didn't buy that and the boos continued to reign down until he was no longer on the team, and then sometime after.

http://sports.nationalpost.com/2013/10/11/did-andrea-bargnani-really-deserve-to-be-booed-by-raptors-fans/#__federated=1

If you pay your money you should be able to say anything you want unless it is threatening or racist.

Hey (insert targeted player here), You suck! Should be well within the right of any attendee to shout out.

Take a look at our Toronto Maple Leafs,who in comparison to your Red Wings, have sucked for decades. For too long the corporate dominated lower bowl couldn't really care about the fortunes of the team as long as they got a tax break to entertain their clients. It wasn't until a fan threw a Maple Leaf jersey on the ice this year did the Maple Leafs start to play as a team. It started to sink in that the fan base, outside the corporate snobs, actually cared.

Piston fans stand up and be heard, keep the pressure on, they won't kick the entire fan base out.

Your team will only get better if the fans put pressure on. You should not be escorted out for caring about your team. Telling them that they suck, is caring.

[DBC10]

Pardon my observation, but I think everyone missed the main point of the OP. Not that the coach has lost the team, but that Piston fans have lost the right to criticize their team. At the end of Bargnani's term with the Raptors he was mercilessly booed by a majority of the fan base. The players were upset by this and even tried to impress on the fans that as long as Bargs was a Raptor, we should support him. The fans didn't buy that and the boos continued to reign down until he was no longer on the team, and then sometime after.

http://sports.nationalpost.com/2013/10/11/did-andrea-bargnani-really-deserve-to-be-booed-by-raptors-fans/#__federated=1

If you pay your money you should be able to say anything you want unless it is threatening or racist.

Hey (insert targeted player here), You suck! Should be well within the right of any attendee to shout out.

Take a look at our Toronto Maple Leafs,who in comparison to your Red Wings, have sucked for decades. For too long the corporate dominated lower bowl couldn't really care about the fortunes of the team as long as they got a tax break to entertain their clients. It wasn't until a fan threw a Maple Leaf jersey on the ice this year did the Maple Leafs start to play as a team. It started to sink in that the fan base, outside the corporate snobs, actually cared.

Piston fans stand up and be heard, keep the pressure on, they won't kick the entire fan base out.

Your team will only get better if the fans put pressure on. You should not be escorted out for caring about your team. Telling them that they suck, is caring.

Ah, you're right.

All we saw were "Stan losing locker room" and tried to explain that reasoning. You're completely right, these players and management shouldn't punish people who boo or criticize players even if it is a bit overboard at times. I think with the amount of Raptors fans at the Palace and the nonexistent home games in general are alarming to Gores in itself. At least hopefully we think so. And at least you guys always had consistent crowds though.

[Pharaoh]

As far as Monroe goes:

He was here before Smith, before Jennings, before Drummond, before KCP, before Butler, before Meeks, before DJ, before Dinwiddie etc

To say he's not at keast partially responsible for the culture in the locker room is giving him a free pass IMO

IF Monroe was a leader all the guys who arrived after him would have bought in to what he was doing. But he's not a leader!

He does his job & stays outta trouble (except for the one drinking incident) and that's it.

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[wire28]

moose whines after every non-call. he's a player with some offensive skills little defensive talent and no heart

and yes SVG still does take some blame. the roster is largely unchanged from last year and we werent one of the absolute worst teams in the year. we have 5 wins and its almost 2015, everybody has been a cook in this kitchen

[The Penguin]

The culture shift all started with the Chauncey for AI deal. You can't get worse on a transaction as far as attitude goes. When Chauncey was traded the heart of the team was ripped out. The reigns were handed to Stuckey and he wasn't ready. Sheed knew he wouldn't be back after the year. Rip checked out because Chauncey was his buddy and AI (and later BG) played his position. After that Joe either brought in "cut the check" all stars like Gordon, Villanueva, Smith & Jennings or drafted soft spoken players like Daye, Monroe & company.


Stan and more importantly Gores need to understand there's no quick fix. There's no Detroit version of Lebron to get everyone stepping in order. We're going to have to suck for a few years to draft our talent and continue to bring in smart vets like Butler, which is difficult as a lot of them turn into ring chasers. I'm really worried Gores is out of his depth. He's where the buck stops and the one responsible for the culture of throwing out upset paying customers to coddle the players. As long as the players know they've got Gores in their back pocket, nothing is going to change.

[AreBe]

My understanding is that the player's minds need to be so completely into the game that crowd noise is not noticed. If you know what song is playing, then you do not belong in the NBA. And aren't alpha male athletes supposed to be thick skinned enough to take some criticism in any event? If Piston players cannot handle some criticism from the paying fans, then how will they have the guts to stand up when some players on opposing teams make mean faces at them? It can be a violent and intimidating game. You best be able to handle some well - founded criticism from your own fans, because if you cannot handle that, you cannot handle Reggie Evans.

[vic]

Lol at "brick brothers" best Smennings nickname I've heard other than Smennings.

Yeah but the enablement culture starts from the top right at Gores. That's why the fans can't say certain things like the original poster mentioned. To be honest, it's also right in SVG's lap. He coddles Josh Smith, and gives him the most minutes for his position, and let him take the most shots, even though he is the most poisonous player on the team with his attitude and shot selection and failure to close out.

Monroe is what he is, the only thing I hate about him is his constant whining to the officials.

At this point I just want Stanley Johnson... If you take him for his work ethic, and his attitude and leadership ability, I'd take him with a top 3 pick if I was the Pistons.