Another reason we need to win

[Han Solo]

Tanking sounded great when we had 3 wins and Josh Smith on the team.. However, the summer of 2015 will be our most important FA offseason due to Drummond needing a contract the following summer. We need to play well even if we pick in the 12-16 range to give potential FA's a sense of direction of the franchise.

SVG will help by himself.. But a winning team looks better than a losing team towards FA's.. We also know young players usually take AT LEAST till their 2nd year to be a true difference maker.

Win or lose? What's your pick? Do you agree with the fact we'll look better to FA's even as an 8th seed?

[Snakebites]

I categorically do not believe in trying to lose.

This team desperately needs an improvement in culture, and a coach can't do that if the team isn't out there trying to win every night.

I don't even think it helps us with free agency, and that's not even the point. Half of the league will have major cap space this offseason, not to mention all of the teams with the ability to resign their own players.

I don't believe we'll be competitive in the free agent market even if we improve to the maximum level we realistically could.

Even Lebron James couldn't draw free agents to Cleveland in the pre-championship days. What makes you think Drummond/SVG can draw them to Detroit with stiffer competition?

[The Penguin]

I don't believe in "trying" to lose, but we are kidding ourselves if we think we are really going to put together a championship roster without adding at least one more superstar level player in the draft. FAs outside of the superstar level tier are going to sign with whoever will pay them. A guy like Jimmy Butler will sign with whoever will max him.

[MotownMadness]

We should definitely try to win. I didnt even realize how bad the East was until now. Bucks-15wins, Heat-14wins and Nets-13wins. As of right now thats youre 6,7 and 8th seeds. The seasons not even at the halfway point yet so its not unrealistic to think we could get in if we can continue to play good ball. Even if we cant it will still be something to continue building off of going into next season and there will still be solid draft choices in that range. These bigs and some international players are going to be a hot commodity. Who knows maybe that Hezonja kid drops down that far and hes one of the best looking international prospects ive seen in a long time and can play some SF, Hes probaly got just as much potential as anyone in the draft if not more right now.

[ImHeisenberg]

I categorically do not believe in trying to lose.

This team desperately needs an improvement in culture, and a coach can't do that if the team isn't out there trying to win every night.

I don't even think it helps us with free agency, and that's not even the point. Half of the league will have major cap space this offseason, not to mention all of the teams with the ability to resign their own players.

I don't believe we'll be competitive in the free agent market even if we improve to the maximum level we realistically could.

Even Lebron James couldn't draw free agents to Cleveland in the pre-championship days. What makes you think Drummond/SVG can draw them to Detroit with stiffer competition?

Well said, as usual.

I'm hoping (and it looks that way in this short span of time) that the Smith waiving really triggered a dynamic change in culture for the locker room. In 2 games, I've seen more smiling and general enthusiasm for the game than I had in the previous 20-something games with Smith being a black hole of usage.

As many have stated- a top 3 pick isn't going to turn this team around if the culture is still toxic. It's more likely to poison the 19/20 year old.

Hopefully this little streak is a preamble for a changing culture, which is what this team has been in dire need of for years. Winning and chemistry is usually a byproduct of a positive culture.

[MotownMadness]

Yeah if we have a actual shot at breaking this losing culture funk that has smothered us for the last 3-4 seasons than we have to do it. Forcing more losing right now on this team is just bad. Actually seeing the whole team hustle and even bad defenders playing like good ones do to effort is great and way more rewarding. Plus we have Drummond as our franchise player already so we are still ok if we dont hit another big time draft pick. Stan worked his magic in Orlando and took them to the finals.

[Whisper]

Tanking sounded great when we had 3 wins and Josh Smith on the team.. However, the summer of 2015 will be our most important FA offseason due to Drummond needing a contract the following summer. We need to play well even if we pick in the 12-16 range to give potential FA's a sense of direction of the franchise.

SVG will help by himself.. But a winning team looks better than a losing team towards FA's.. We also know young players usually take AT LEAST till their 2nd year to be a true difference maker.

Win or lose? What's your pick? Do you agree with the fact we'll look better to FA's even as an 8th seed?

I agree. Plus, how could we not enjoy the smiles on the guys' faces these past two games. Haven't seen that in ages.

[Kilo]

Mudiay/Okafor/Towns on rookie deal > any left over free agent that we have to pay Detroit Tax+ to come here.

[DBC10]

The thing is, the FA market for us is going to suck since RFAs will most likely stay put in their respective teams and any FAs are going to look at going to a competitive playoff team over us. We can't predict that we will even make the playoffs despite the East being so awful.

I'm still in favor of getting Mudiay or Johnson, but if we continue to play scorching hot from the 3 ball and FG%, then I might change my mind.

[princeofpalace]

The draft has no superstar talent, we have no reason to tank. We can get an impact player at 7/8/9 just as we could at 1/2/3. We need to start learning how to win and building off it. Get some team chemistry, learn how to win, draft well with a 7-9 pick and sign complimentary FA that can shoot the ball and defend- that should be our goal- not tanking.

[fekz]

Mudiay/Okafor/Towns on rookie deal > any left over free agent that we have to pay Detroit Tax+ to come here.

Winning more games > disgruntled Dre that entertains the QO as monroe did and bolt.

tanking is for pussies

[GreekAlex]

I categorically do not believe in trying to lose.

This team desperately needs an improvement in culture, and a coach can't do that if the team isn't out there trying to win every night.

I don't even think it helps us with free agency, and that's not even the point. Half of the league will have major cap space this offseason, not to mention all of the teams with the ability to resign their own players.

I don't believe we'll be competitive in the free agent market even if we improve to the maximum level we realistically could.

Even Lebron James couldn't draw free agents to Cleveland in the pre-championship days. What makes you think Drummond/SVG can draw them to Detroit with stiffer competition?

Well said, as usual.

I'm hoping (and it looks that way in this short span of time) that the Smith waiving really triggered a dynamic change in culture for the locker room. In 2 games, I've seen more smiling and general enthusiasm for the game than I had in the previous 20-something games with Smith being a black hole of usage.

As many have stated- a top 3 pick isn't going to turn this team around if the culture is still toxic. It's more likely to poison the 19/20 year old.

Hopefully this little streak is a preamble for a changing culture, which is what this team has been in dire need of for years. Winning and chemistry is usually a byproduct of a positive culture.

As much as I'd like a top 3 pick, I believe SVG showing a real vision by giving the team direction and heart is better for the future of the franchise.

Although the 2004 team had #2 pick on the roster that was drafted by the team he made no difference on the floor.

The culture change started with veteran leadership of Cliff Robinson and energy/hustle of Ben Wallace and the grit/toughness of Jon Berry/ Corliss Williamson.... Don't forget "Winning is contagious!"

[Cowology]

One of my favorite sayings, and one I use frequently in leadership training, is "Culture eats structure for breakfast."

You can have all the talent in the world, the best X&O coach out there and know exactly what you need to do to win... but if the guys you are talking to are not buying in, it doesn't mean a damn thing. You need to be able to achieve positive engagement and use that as the foundation you build everything else on.

One of my favorite books, "From Good to Great" also talks about getting the right people on the buss, and then figuring out the destination. The principle is the same; establish a winning culture, and then figure out how to leverage it to achieve positive results.

Stan is on the right track. This is no quick fix and anytime you try to change negative behavior with a group of people you encounter resistance. The mistake most leaders make is thinking what they are doing isn't working and so they stop, instead of riding out the wave of resistance. Unfortunately in pro-sports you usually have short sighted owners who want immediate results and that tends to negatively impact the culture changing paradigm.

As GM/Coach with a lengthy contract I'm hopeful that SVG will have the opportunity he needs, but there will continue to be knee-jerk reactions every time he encounters resistance. LB's message to him was spot on; "Just do what you do.' It's a process." As narcissistic and petulant as LB can be, he does know something about taking bad teams and turning them into winners. He made a career out of it, perhaps better than any other professional basketball coach.

tldr; I don't believe in intentionally losing either. You play to win and develop that as your culture.

[MrBigShot]

I'd actually much rather we play with the effort and ball movement we have been the past two games and to keep allowing Dre/KCP to develop. Even if the shots don't fall and we don't wind up with a top 3 pick, we are in much more dire need of a winning culture.

[triplet1984]

Tanking isn't an option. We need to scrape our way to a winning record, try to slip into the playoffs and convince Drummond and maybe even Monroe that this is the place to stay and we are up and coming. SVG has own me over with how he booted Smoove out of town and how Meeks has played. I BELIEVE!

[frothbrain]

Tank? At this pace, Detroit will be in playoff picture by end of January and can easily surpass Brooklyn and Milwaukee in the standings by February, probably Cleveland as well.

[Damon_3388]

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IMk5sMHj58I[/youtube]

[princeofpalace]

Look at how much more fun the team is having winning some games, and while I can't speak as to the crowds at the Palace, fan participation on this board has gone up. Our game threads have gone from 3-4 pages to 25+ pages.

There is no savior in this draft, lets get some wins

[Pharaoh]

One of my favorite sayings, and one I use frequently in leadership training, is "Culture eats structure for breakfast."

You can have all the talent in the world, the best X&O coach out there and know exactly what you need to do to win... but if the guys you are talking to are not buying in, it doesn't mean a damn thing. You need to be able to achieve positive engagement and use that as the foundation you build everything else on.

One of my favorite books, "From Good to Great" also talks about getting the right people on the buss, and then figuring out the destination. The principle is the same; establish a winning culture, and then figure out how to leverage it to achieve positive results.

Stan is on the right track. This is no quick fix and anytime you try to change negative behavior with a group of people you encounter resistance. The mistake most leaders make is thinking what they are doing isn't working and so they stop, instead of riding out the wave of resistance. Unfortunately in pro-sports you usually have short sighted owners who want immediate results and that tends to negatively impact the culture changing paradigm.

As GM/Coach with a lengthy contract I'm hopeful that SVG will have the opportunity he needs, but there will continue to be knee-jerk reactions every time he encounters resistance. LB's message to him was spot on; "Just do what you do.' It's a process." As narcissistic and petulant as LB can be, he does know something about taking bad teams and turning them into winners. He made a career out of it, perhaps better than any other professional basketball coach.

tldr; I don't believe in intentionally losing either. You play to win and develop that as your culture.

Love your work dude and this might be arguing semantics but:

If you've got dudes that are not willing to "die for that inch" then you need to acquire them!

We're looking to go from craptacular to good...any player not willing to buy in needs to hit the bricks!

As a manager the hardest thing is finding the "right" people, especially when you take over a failing team (or work force).

They're so accustomed to coming up short that the goal is to just hit the dirt...you should always shoot for the moon cause if you miss you might hit the stars!

What is worse: aiming too low and succeeding or aiming too high and just missing?

Pride! Determination! Effort! Hard work! I don't believe you can teach these things - people in general either have them or they don't! Ridding ourselves of those that don't possess these qualities is job #1 if you're SVG.

Any clown can follow instructions! It takes a special individual to go above and beyond every day to exceed that instruction and make it "true", a matter of habit, of muscle memory...it's New Year's Eve and I'm drinking excuse my dribble

[hoophabit]

Of course the Pistons need to win as much as possible. The idea of a "Detroit Tax" to acquire FAs is a myth. This is simply a "losing team tax." Do the Red Wings or the Tigers really have to pay extra? Detroit has endured some tough times, but pro athletes don't live in that world. Another myth is this "must get a top 3 or 5 pick" to be successful. Kawhi Leonard was a number 15 pick and everyone would gladly take him. The Pistons need to win, properly manage their roster, and scout well. Good teams have a mix of youth and experience, and they almost always don't depend on players on their rookie contracts for their success. There are nice players in this draft, but no one stands out as a transcendent talent. To further foster the cliché, winning cures all ills.