The Magic of 4 out basketball

vic · Post #1 » by **vic** » Fri Jan 9, 2015 8:08 am

http://basketball.realgm.com/analysis/2 ... Basketball

Another insightful Tjarks article.
Thoughts?

Natopher · Post #2 » by **Natopher** » Fri Jan 9, 2015 8:47 am

idk if 1 in and 4 out deserves quite as much love as he's giving it, but it's definitely been good for us so far. I was kinda taken a back when he said how many of our players could shoot 3s. After reading it I went and looked at our roster. Literally the only players on our team who can't shoot 3s (I'm excluding Datome because he could shoot them in Europe and he never plays) are our Centers (Drummond, Monroe and Anthony). Literally every other player on our roster is capable of making a 3. Quite the welcome change from the Dumars era.

One thing he mentioned that I do love is how Monroe and Drummond give us so much flexibility with our roster/shooters. Being able to have one of them on the court the entire game is such an incredible asset. It makes us very unique as well. Most teams have obvious shortcomings when they go to our bench. But because we always have at least 1 elite big man on the court at a time, we don't get hindered when we go to our bench. Imagine if we didn't have Monroe and someone like Dalembert was our backup C. Playing a specialist like Tolliver or a limited big like Jerebko with Dalembert would be a huge disadvantage. But because Monroe and Drummond are so talented, we can play limited or specialist type players next to them and keep them in for a while without it being a huge hinderance to the team. It's a privilege I hope we don't lose next season.

DetroitSho · Post #3 » by **DetroitSho** » Fri Jan 9, 2015 11:37 am

I agree, this is probably the only team getting 48 guaranteed minutes of really great center play. That was the initial plan for Houston last year with Dwight and Asik, but egos got in the way of that plan.

The Penguin · Post #4 » by **The Penguin** » Fri Jan 9, 2015 2:01 pm

DetroitSho wrote:I agree, this is probably the only team getting 48 guaranteed minutes of really great center play. That was the initial plan for Houston last year with Dwight and Asik, but egos got in the way of that plan.

People (not us, but people) knocked Drummond's attitude when he got drafted that he wasn't an "alpha dog", however a guy like him really makes this work with Monroe. I think it spoke a lot about Drummond's character that he said he had no problem being the guy to come off the bench, even when he was coming off a summer with team USA. That's what sunk Houston's attempt at Dwight-Asik last year and I couldn't imagine a guy like Dwight or Boogie Cousins saying that in the media. Dre & Greg's relationship can't be understated in this system, they seem like they are genuinely really good friends and don't have a problem with the other one being in the spotlight on any given night. That's pretty rare in this league and something special we need to make the cornerstone of our team for the next decade. Some people would believe you can't win a title without a Lebron or Durant, but while Duncan and Parker might be considered stars, at this point in their career they aren't much different than Chauncey-Ben-Rasheed were for us. I really believe if we keep Drummond and Moose together, KCP takes a real step forward, we add a real starter at the 3 who can shoot and play defense (a Leonard type guy) and maybe a little bit better stretch 4 with the right attitude then we have the potential to win big with this core.

zeebneeb · Post #5 » by **zeebneeb** » Fri Jan 9, 2015 2:47 pm

The Penguin wrote:
DetroitSho wrote:I agree, this is probably the only team getting 48 guaranteed minutes of really great center play. That was the initial plan for Houston last year with Dwight and Asik, but egos got in the way of that plan.

People (not us, but people) knocked Drummond's attitude when he got drafted that he wasn't an "alpha dog", however a guy like him really makes this work with Monroe. I think it spoke a lot about Drummond's character that he said he had no problem being the guy to come off the bench, even when he was coming off a summer with team USA. That's what sunk Houston's attempt at Dwight-Asik last year and I couldn't imagine a guy like Dwight or Boogie Cousins saying that in the media. Dre & Greg's relationship can't be understated in this system, they seem like they are genuinely really good friends and don't have a problem with the other one being in the spotlight on any given night. That's pretty rare in this league and something special we need to make the cornerstone of our team for the next decade. Some people would believe you can't win a title without a Lebron or Durant, but while Duncan and Parker might be considered stars, at this point in their career they aren't much different than Chauncey-Ben-Rasheed were for us. I really believe if we keep Drummond and Moose together, KCP takes a real step forward, we add a real starter at the 3 who can shoot and play defense (a Leonard type guy) and maybe a little bit better stretch 4 with the right attitude then we have the potential to win big with this core.

I absolutely agree with you, but KCP needs to become a 20+ point threat, every single night. Hell, even 17 a night. You add a good SF to this team, and it could become a contender. The only thing that bothers me, and always has, is Moose's defense. At times, it's atrocious.

The trade deadline, and end of this season have huge question marks for this team, and the more they win, the bigger they will become. If this team makes the playoffs, and actually makes some noise, SVG, and all his moves are going to be under a microscope.

DetroitSho · Post #6 » by **DetroitSho** » Fri Jan 9, 2015 3:03 pm

zeebneeb wrote:
The Penguin wrote:
DetroitSho wrote:I agree, this is probably the only team getting 48 guaranteed minutes of really great center play. That was the initial plan for Houston last year with Dwight and Asik, but egos got in the way of that plan.

People (not us, but people) knocked Drummond's attitude when he got drafted that he wasn't an "alpha dog", however a guy like him really makes this work with Monroe. I think it spoke a lot about Drummond's character that he said he had no problem being the guy to come off the bench, even when he was coming off a summer with team USA. That's what sunk Houston's attempt at Dwight-Asik last year and I couldn't imagine a guy like Dwight or Boogie Cousins saying that in the media. Dre & Greg's relationship can't be understated in this system, they seem like they are genuinely really good friends and don't have a problem with the other one being in the spotlight on any given night. That's pretty rare in this league and something special we need to make the cornerstone of our team for the next decade. Some people would believe you can't win a title without a Lebron or Durant, but while Duncan and Parker might be considered stars, at this point in their career they aren't much different than Chauncey-Ben-Rasheed were for us. I really believe if we keep Drummond and Moose together, KCP takes a real step forward, we add a real starter at the 3 who can shoot and play defense (a Leonard type guy) and maybe a little bit better stretch 4 with the right attitude then we have the potential to win big with this core.
I absolutely agree with you, but KCP needs to become a 20+ point threat, every single night. Hell, even 17 a night. You add a good SF to this team, and it could become a contender. The only thing that bothers me, and always has, is Moose's defense. At times, it's atrocious.

The trade deadline, and end of this season have huge question marks for this team, and the more they win, the bigger they will become. If this team makes the playoffs, and actually makes some noise, SVG, and all his moves are going to be under a microscope.

If we get a good SF capable of going for 15-20 every night, I totally disagree that KCP has to get to 17+ a night. Everybody in the starting lineup would literally be capable of getting 15-20 a night. That takes less of an onus off KCP having to score big.

vic · Post #7 » by **vic** » Fri Jan 9, 2015 3:08 pm

i totally agree having a starting caliber center for 48 minutes is an advantage. not only because the backups are guaranteed to be overmatched.... but also because it allows them to play harder while they are in the game. they don't have to pace themselves.

Drumroe = the Double Double Duo

vic · Post #8 » by **vic** » Fri Jan 9, 2015 3:11 pm

Tjarks also has an article out about Atlanta and how they play "5 out" basketball. That's the next level and since we have Drummond I don't think we'll ever get to that point. I'm not sure we really need to get to that point when you have Drummond that can dominate his paint matchup on offense.

Tonight will be the ultimate test of the 2 hottest teams in the East: 4 out Pistons vs 5 out Hawks.

Ghost · Post #9 » by **Ghost** » Fri Jan 9, 2015 3:21 pm

When the playoffs start, the Pistons are easily going to be “the team that no wants to see” in the first round. Any team that puts that much floor spacing around a guy as big and athletic as Drummond and another guy as big and skilled as Monroe is dangerous. Under Van Gundy, the Pistons are playing the same style as the Spurs and the Heat in the last few NBA Finals and neither of those teams had big men like Monroe and Drummond.

The revolution is happening and it’s being televised in Detroit.

I like the sounds of that :lol:

.. Analysis is flawed though. He didn't mention anything about forming walls. That's were our team's true strength lies.

The Penguin · Post #10 » by **The Penguin** » Fri Jan 9, 2015 3:40 pm

DetroitSho wrote:If we get a good SF capable of going for 15-20 every night, I totally disagree that KCP has to get to 17+ a night. Everybody in the starting lineup would literally be capable of getting 15-20 a night. That takes less of an onus off KCP having to score big.

That's the way I look at it as well. The Spurs kill you with a thousand paper cuts and a real SF would make us deep enough to be able to do the same thing. The 4 (or 5) out is just much more efficient than the old iso ball style. NBA shooters are too good, when the ball is really whipping around the perimeter it wears out defenses much more than when the ball is stopped and Kobe/Lebron are trying to go to work and odds are the eventual open 3 is going to net you more points than hoping one guy can beat the other team.