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Reading an article about the way Reggie left OKC and came across this excerpt from an ESPN writer who covers OKC.

Jackson's situation parallels directly with Harden's: a talented young sixth man in search of a stepping out of Westbrook and Durant's shadow. But it played out far differently. Harden's said all the right things publicly while a different scenario played out behind closed doors. Then again, Harden was dealt before that Oct. 31 deadline, never presenting a chance for his situation to dissolve the way it did for Jackson.

Like Harden, Jackson could validate himself and then some. He's a fantastic player. Filling in for Westbrook in November, Jackson averaged 20.2 points, 5.2 rebounds and 7.8 assists, which are, you know, Westbrook-ish numbers. (The Thunder, though, went 3-10 with Jackson as a starter this season.) In Game 4 against Memphis last postseason, Jackson saved the Thunder's series with 32 points. He was in tears after the game.

Jackson may elevate into an All-Star-caliber player. He has massive potential, a dogged work ethic and an especially strong belief in himself. He simply couldn't be the player he saw himself as with the Thunder.

http://espn.go.com/blog/okc-thunder/pos ... ime-coming

Tons of potential? Yes. James Harden good? Hell no.

His shooting is my biggest concern if Detroit keeps him. SVG has spoken of hiring a shooting coach, which could yield great returns. But, until he can keep the defense honest on the perimeter the Pistons will have spacing problems.

ImHeisenberg wrote:Tons of potential? Yes. James Harden good? Hell no.

His shooting is my biggest concern if Detroit keeps him. SVG has spoken of hiring a shooting coach, which could yield great returns. But, until he can keep the defense honest on the perimeter the Pistons will have spacing problems.

Sounds good about the shooting coach.

Hypothetically.. if Monroe does leave and we replace him with a stretch-4, that spacing problem would be less of an issue because then only Jackson/Drummond would be the two unable to really shoot.
*shrug* Who knows though, there's still a lot of time and we got a lot of big questionmarks right now with Monroe, Jennings and the draft.

Jackson is 25 years old, he doesn't have a lot of potential. He is what he is, guys usually do not suddenly get better at his age- he's in the prime of his career, not some young buck. Do people know that Jackson is only 6 months younger than Jennings?

ImHeisenberg wrote:Tons of potential? Yes. James Harden good? Hell no.

to be fair, not even harden had potential to be 'james harden good' when he was in OKC. I don't think a lot of people predicted he would be an MVP calibre player just by judging his sixth man days in OKC.

whitehops wrote:

ImHeisenberg wrote:Tons of potential? Yes. James Harden good? Hell no.

to be fair, not even harden had potential to be 'james harden good' when he was in OKC. I don't think a lot of people predicted he would be an MVP calibre player just by judging his sixth man days in OKC.

The thing was, Harden was ridiculous efficient during his OKC days, and could shoot lights out along with ball-handling. All the traits and intangibles were there too. The only suspect thing about Harden was his defense, whereas Reggie's suspect things are definitely shooting, efficiency, and trying on defense.

Reggie has big time potential but his lack of shooting may limit his ceiling.

whitehops wrote:

ImHeisenberg wrote:Tons of potential? Yes. James Harden good? Hell no.

to be fair, not even harden had potential to be 'james harden good' when he was in OKC. I don't think a lot of people predicted he would be an MVP calibre player just by judging his sixth man days in OKC.

Being 150% honest, Harden becoming a 25ppg star was so easy to predict that Stevie wonder could have gotten it right.

I remember posting on here those words before his first game with the Rockets.

How so many people say his becoming this was surprise is kind of crazy to me.

Can someone explain where Jacksons potential should be? Because him improving as a shooter seems unlikely right now. He is not a great passer or defender either. He's 25. He is a great rebounder for a guard, thats his only 'elite' skill.

Joe Asberry wrote:Can someone explain where Jacksons potential should be? Because him improving as a shooter seems unlikely right now. He is not a great passer or defender either. He's 25. He is a great rebounder for a guard, thats his only 'elite' skill.

Great play making & shot creating potential. Potential to be a very good passer too. Work ethic & motor is outstanding.

Hes still a couple years away from his prime too & this is first real shot at being an alpha dog.

Funny how ppl claim RJ's shooting ability is going to hold him back but yet absolutely get on their knee's for moose, when he's probably a worst shooter than JSmith

Blkbrd671 wrote:Funny how ppl claim RJ's shooting ability is going to hold him back but yet absolutely get on their knee's for moose, when he's probably a worst shooter than JSmith

This is actually very simple. Monroe can't shoot (his percentage might be good this season but it's too small a sample size). Smith can't shoot. Reggie can't shoot. I've said before at least 20-30 times that Monroe needs to develop his jumper and utilize it more, definitely.

The difference between them is that Monroe plays to his strengths and takes just about all of his shot attempts in the paint rather than shooting a lot of jumpers, while Reggie and Josh take quite a few jumpers but don't make them at a very high percentage. Reggie's shooting 28% from deep this season and in total they make up over 1/4th of his shot attempts this year. And of course, I'm not even taking into account the mid range jumpers he takes. So when people get on him for his lack of shooting ability, it's because it's apart of his game that he uses frequently with below average success.

How many great, all star caliber point guards have been successful with poor shooting ability? The ones that come to mind are Magic (6'9, nuff' said), Westbrook, Wall, Rose pre-injury (elite athletes, get to the rim with ease) and Rondo who had success playing with 3 future hall of famers and somewhat makes up for it with us playmaking and defense.

The good news? Reggie is an elite FT shooter and shot 34% from deep last year with OKC, so maybe with enough off season work there's hope.

Blkbrd671 wrote:Funny how ppl claim RJ's shooting ability is going to hold him back but yet absolutely get on their knee's for moose, when he's probably a worst shooter than JSmith

It's as if they play different positions!!

Blkbrd671 wrote:Funny how ppl claim RJ's shooting ability is going to hold him back but yet absolutely get on their knee's for moose, when he's probably a worst shooter than JSmith

Having a PG that can shoot is far more needed than a PF that can shoot. It is the golden age of PGs after all with guards dominating the league.

DBC10 wrote:

Blkbrd671 wrote:Funny how ppl claim RJ's shooting ability is going to hold him back but yet absolutely get on their knee's for moose, when he's probably a worst shooter than JSmith

Having a PG that can shoot is far more needed than a PF that can shoot. It is the golden age of PGs after all with guards dominating the league.

Having a pf that CAN shoot is more important than having a pg that can't shoot well. At least RJ can hit some shots, Moose is not even close to being a decent jump shooter.

bballnmike wrote:It's as if they play different positions!!

so your arguing that we don't need a pf that can shoot?

MrBigShot wrote:
This is actually very simple. Monroe can't shoot (his percentage might be good this season but it's too small a sample size). Smith can't shoot. Reggie can't shoot. I've said before at least 20-30 times that Monroe needs to develop his jumper and utilize it more, definitely.

Monroe with a jumpshot is a young poor man's Zach randolph.

The difference between them is that Monroe plays to his strengths and takes just about all of his shot attempts in the paint rather than shooting a lot of jumpers, while Reggie and Josh take quite a few jumpers but don't make them at a very high percentage. Reggie's shooting 28% from deep this season and in total they make up over 1/4th of his shot attempts this year. And of course, I'm not even taking into account the mid range jumpers he takes. So when people get on him for his lack of shooting ability, it's because it's apart of his game that he uses frequently with below average success.

The complaint was about spacing, and how RJ's lack of ability to shoot is causing that. What i am pointing out is that having a pf that CAN'T shoot is more a problem. apparently 2 centers isn't great for spacing.

I am not worried about RJ's ability to shoot, i am more worried about his shot selection. SVG took Jennings and DJ who haven't always shot efficiently and turned them into efficient pg's. IT took a while, but he brought them around.In regards to moose, i am worried about his ability to shoot as he has yet to shown he can.

The good news? Reggie is an elite FT shooter and shot 34% from deep last year with OKC, so maybe with enough off season work there's hope.

i think the good news is he has the ability to shoot its more of his selection which SVG has shown he can get guards to by in. Again the point of my post was to call out the hypocrites complaining about spacing and blaming RJ's lack of shooting stroke yet ignore moose's inability to shoot as possible "spacing problems".

Blkbrd671 wrote:
Monroe with a jumpshot is a young poor man's Zach randolph.

The complaint was about spacing, and how RJ's lack of ability to shoot is causing that. What i am pointing out is that having a pf that CAN'T shoot is more a problem. apparently 2 centers isn't great for spacing.

I am not worried about RJ's ability to shoot, i am more worried about his shot selection. SVG took Jennings and DJ who haven't always shot efficiently and turned them into efficient pg's. IT took a while, but he brought them around.In regards to moose, i am worried about his ability to shoot as he has yet to shown he can.

i think the good news is he has the ability to shoot its more of his selection which SVG has shown he can get guards to by in. Again the point of my post was to call out the hypocrites complaining about spacing and blaming RJ's lack of shooting stroke yet ignore moose's inability to shoot as possible "spacing problems".

Until he improves his shooting people will be able to go under screens and back off him in isolation, and off the ball people will play off him resulting in less space for post ups and driving lanes.

Lack of shooting tends to hurt a perimeter oriented player more than it does a bigman who plays primarily in the paint. Moose isn't lurking at the three point line or 18 foot area for defenders to play off of him in the first place, he's near the basket where a defender must be near him or he'll get an easy drop off pass or an offensive board. If Monroe was trying to be a stretch 4 and shooting 28% from deep like Reggie is, then you would have a point because he would be killing our spacing much like Smith did. But he doesn't. And again, I say this as someone who has repeatedly criticized Monroe for not adding the mid range jumper to his game and utilizing it more.

This isn't to say that Monroe's lack of shooting doesn't contribute to our spacing/lack thereof at all, but I think Jackson's lack of shooting contributes to it more. And his lack of efficiency is a mix of poor shooting and shot selection, and if he wants to be an all star PG he'll be in the gym working on his jumper this off season.

Blkbrd671 wrote:

DBC10 wrote:

Blkbrd671 wrote:Funny how ppl claim RJ's shooting ability is going to hold him back but yet absolutely get on their knee's for moose, when he's probably a worst shooter than JSmith

Having a PG that can shoot is far more needed than a PF that can shoot. It is the golden age of PGs after all with guards dominating the league.

Having a pf that CAN shoot is more important than having a pg that can't shoot well. At least RJ can hit some shots, Moose is not even close to being a decent jump shooter.

Before Reggie and Tay came and Jennings pre-injury, that wasn't even a great concern. Good spacing almost negates the poor spacing downlow if our 3 players outside of Dre and Monroe can consistently shoot. which we showed when Singler and DJ started and when Jennings was balling out with his ISO 3s. So yes, I believe a PG that can shoot sets the tone far more than a shooting big.

MrBigShot wrote:
Until he improves his shooting people will be able to go under screens and back off him in isolation, and off the ball people will play off him resulting in less space for post ups and driving lanes.

Since you said improve i am assuming your referring to RJ. My opinion on this, is this relates directly to his shot selection. IF RJ takes 3 point shots when the defense goes under screens or backs off him, i think his shooting % is a lot higher, instead he tends to take 3's that are contested. ITs the recognition of the defense and making them pay. Again the problem isn't that he lacks teh ability to shoot, its the shots he takes.

Lack of shooting tends to hurt a perimeter oriented player more than it does a bigman who plays primarily in the paint. Moose isn't lurking at the three point line or 18 foot area for defenders to play off of him in the first place, he's near the basket where a defender must be near him or he'll get an easy drop off pass or an offensive board. If Monroe was trying to be a stretch 4 and shooting 28% from deep like Reggie is, then you would have a point because he would be killing our spacing much like Smith did. But he doesn't. And again, I say this as someone who has repeatedly criticized Monroe for not adding the mid range jumper to his game and utilizing it more.

When monroe runs the pnr, he likes to pop instead of roll, with the defensee doubling the guard, moose presenting himself as a shooting threat does not worry the defense. The problem here is that our PG situation no longer allows for Dre and Moose to be effective together being that we now don't have 3 other high percentage shooters on teh court. Your arguing monroe does not presenet a spacing issue because he doesn't take shots, but that's simply not true. He presents the spacing problem exactly because the defense knows he CAN'T shoot.

You put RJ and Dre in the pnr, which more times than not Dre rolls to the rim. You have Dre's man and the guard double the ball handler, leaving Dre free to finish over the top, if help side comes, there should be 3 other floor spacers to give the guard open options. When moose is in the game, he's normally in the lane causing congestion for the RJ and Dre. Leaving only 2 guys on the perimeter which the defense easily can recover. 3rd floor spacer forces the defense to cover a lot more ground to recover. Even when Moose does pop out , he'll jsut catch teh ball and run it right into the lane.

If Monroe/Dre were surrounded by great shooters at the PG/SG/SF spacing wouldn't be an issue at all. Jackson's lack of efficiency is a mix of poor shooting and shot selection, and if he wants to be an all star PG he'll be in the gym working on his jumper this off season.

Not true, DJ, considered a better shooter, was not effective with dre and moose until he figured out the system. 1 of the biggest difference between DJ and jennings vs RJ, is that when RJ gives teh ball up, you can tell he's trying to trust his teammates with the ball, where as jennings and dj , when they gave teh ball up, normally ran towards teh ball to get it back. This was evident everytime RJ gave KCP the ball yesterday to create, which he doesn't do. The problem is RJ doesn't know where to go after he gives up the ball, normally after DJ drove and kicked out, he'd spot up for 3 or present himself to score. RJ tends to stay in the lane for the rebound.