Can Bower/SVG draft as well as Dumars?

Post #1 » by **theBigLip** » Tue May 19, 2015 5:51 pm

Some interesting tidbits....

Where they draft well: Although Van Gundy is the big boss, it's front-office veteran Bower who does the day-to-day work. Bower's draft work in New Orleans was poor. His best pick was at No. 21 in 2009, when he took Darren Collison to back Chris Paul up at point guard.

Where they don't draft well: In their first draft in Detroit, Bower and Van Gundy did not have a first-rounder, but they came up with Dinwiddie, who slid on draft boards because of injury issues. In New Orleans, Bower struggled all over the place. He missed on two first-rounders (Nos. 12 and 15) in 2006, with Hilton Armstrong and Cedric Simmons. He missed with No. 13 pick Julian Wright in 2007. In 2008, he took useful big man Darrell Arthur but sold him to Portland for cash. Finally, he then took Cole Aldrich at No. 11 in 2010.

DCintheD · Post #2 » by **DCintheD** » Tue May 19, 2015 5:53 pm

SVG calls the shots.. not worried about Bower screwing anything up

zeebneeb · Post #3 » by **zeebneeb** » Tue May 19, 2015 5:54 pm

Yup, this is my main concern, and the reason why I have been tempering my predictions for next year. We know Dumars could draft, I don't know about these two yet. All I know, is if we end up with some "who?" Player at our soon to be found out pick, I'm going to be pissed.

Montanabadboy · Post #4 » by **Montanabadboy** » Tue May 19, 2015 6:02 pm

This is a fair question. But with all the resources devoted to scouting, and with the talent sure to be available wherever we might pick, I'm really not too concerned. It'll be interesting to see what our second round pick gets us. I think that's where Dumars did a solid job of mining talent.

princeofpalace · Post #5 » by **princeofpalace** » Tue May 19, 2015 6:22 pm

Bowers may be a horrible drafter, but I trust SVG to be able to recognize prospects that would work in his system. If Bowers is taking the lead on drafting then we may be in trouble.

MotownMadness · Post #6 » by **MotownMadness** » Tue May 19, 2015 6:45 pm

SVG is a lot smarter then too just let Bower go out and F up a top 10 draft pick.

Shady_ · Post #7 » by **Shady_** » Tue May 19, 2015 6:52 pm

Yeah, this is the main reason why i'm excited about this draft, to see how well SVG does drafting. I already like all his moves he made so far with FA signings and trades so far, now it's time to see how he does drafting and recognizing prospects.

Of course we won't know how it will turn out anywhere from 1 to 3 years later from now.

MotownMadness · Post #8 » by **MotownMadness** » Tue May 19, 2015 7:09 pm

ImHeisenberg · Post #9 » by **ImHeisenberg** » Tue May 19, 2015 8:19 pm

Looking over Bower's draft history, he doesn't have a lot of wild misses. The time he had a top 5 pick, he took Chris Paul at #4.

The rest are bottom of the lottery, mid-first rounders, which are always a crap-shoot. He nabbed David West out of the middle of the pack.

Basically, yeah, they can draft as well as Dumars. If they can take the blatantly obvious pick, they can equal Dumars' drafting prowess.

tmorgan · Post #10 » by **tmorgan** » Tue May 19, 2015 9:25 pm

ImHeisenberg wrote:Basically, yeah, they can draft as well as Dumars. If they can take the blatantly obvious pick, they can equal Dumars' drafting prowess.

Joe D did a lot of things wrong after 2004, and his choice of coaches after Larry was horrific, but don't sell him short as a drafter. He and his staff did a LOT more than just make the obvious pick.

russkopp · Post #11 » by **russkopp** » Tue May 19, 2015 11:40 pm

I think this front office has a large "team" of people making decisions with SVG getting final say. I like this approach. After all, SVG said he did not make the deal for Reggie happen, it was Bower and the staff.

All the mocks have a group of 4 or so players they think we should take. They all make sense in some way.
I agree, I'll only be upset with a WHO?? pick.

ComboGuardCity · Post #12 » by **ComboGuardCity** » Tue May 19, 2015 11:44 pm

ImHeisenberg wrote:Looking over Bower's draft history, he doesn't have a lot of wild misses. The time he had a top 5 pick, he took Chris Paul at #4.

The rest are bottom of the lottery, mid-first rounders, which are always a crap-shoot. He nabbed David West out of the middle of the pack.

Basically, yeah, they can draft as well as Dumars. If they can take the blatantly obvious pick, they can equal Dumars' drafting prowess.

I was just going to say. The article seems to cherry pick. David west was an outstanding pick.

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Post #13 » by **theBigLip** » Tue May 19, 2015 11:48 pm

I'm intrigued more than I'm worried. As much as I hated Dumars' trades and FA signings, his drafting was pretty solid except for that Darko thing. We should just get a top 3 and I don't think we can f--k up.

Blkbrd671 · Post #14 » by **Blkbrd671** » Wed May 20, 2015 12:22 am

theBigLip wrote:I'm intrigued more than I'm worried. As much as I hated Dumars' trades and FA signings, his drafting was pretty solid except for that Darko thing. We should just get a top 3 and I don't think we can f--k up.

Here i am in sunsets and rainbows land and you go and drop this sh* on me.............hopefully SVG and Bower have learned.

Sheeeeed · Post #15 » by **Sheeeeed** » Wed May 20, 2015 3:02 am

The Pelicans under Bower had a very limited scouting department because of cheap ownership, so I think he deserves a benefit of the doubt.

Warspite · Post #16 » by **Warspite** » Wed May 20, 2015 3:25 am

I believe its more valuable that SVG knows the type of player he wants to fit into the system/team. Dumars never had a system or vision to draft into since his coaches were a train wreck. Most of the time Dumars was picking BPA and even though he hit with more talent way to often that talent was traded to help someone else.

Pharaoh · Post #17 » by **Pharaoh** » Wed May 20, 2015 8:38 am

Warspite wrote:I believe its more valuable that SVG knows the type of player he wants to fit into the system/team. Dumars never had a system or vision to draft into since his coaches were a train wreck. Most of the time Dumars was picking BPA and even though he hit with more talent way to often that talent was traded to help someone else.

THIS!

SVG has employed more scouts than most (google it) & as an organization we're looking for specific tools.

People claim Joe drafted well. Drummond, Monroe and even Knight to some extent were the obvious choices at the time - doesn't take a genius to make that call

princeofpalace · Post #18 » by **princeofpalace** » Wed May 20, 2015 3:52 pm

Langlois answered my mailbag question today regarding if there were any holdovers from the Joe D era currently employed with SVG. There are quite a few of them it seems so that gives me more hope that Bowers/SVG will be able to land a solid pick. Curry and Thompson were drafted 7th and 11th respectively- value can be found with a good scouting team.

Christina (@6ChampionshipDr): The Pistons drafted well under Joe Dumars. Stuckey, Afflalo, Maxiell, Drummond, Knight, Monroe and even Delfino were all good picks in round one. Are there any scouting holdovers from the Dumars era still employed under Stan Van Gundy?

Langlois: Good question, Christina, and you can get a little more insight into how the department is structured here. But, short answer, yes – scouts Doug Ash, Durand "Speedy" Walker and Orondo Taliafiero are holdovers from the previous administration and all have sharp eyes for talent. In addition, the Pistons have hired Maury Hanks, based in the southeast, and J.R. Holden, who scouts both Europe and the United States, in addition to a full-time European scout. Your point is solid, by the way – the Pistons easily beat the average in the draft. You even left out perhaps the best value of all, getting Tayshaun Prince with the 23rd pick in a historically weak draft.

Lionlifer · Post #19 » by **Lionlifer** » Wed May 20, 2015 4:42 pm

Pharaoh wrote:
Warspite wrote:I believe its more valuable that SVG knows the type of player he wants to fit into the system/team. Dumars never had a system or vision to draft into since his coaches were a train wreck. Most of the time Dumars was picking BPA and even though he hit with more talent way to often that talent was traded to help someone else.

THIS!

SVG has employed more scouts than most (google it) & as an organization we're looking for specific tools.

People claim Joe drafted well. Drummond, Monroe and even Knight to some extent were the obvious choices at the time - doesn't take a genius to make that call

True, but Afflalo, Middleton, Maxiell, and Prince were all solid picks later in the draft. Dude could draft, no doubt. It's just the ROI on a lot of our picks was crap sadly

kamal2_espn · Post #20 » by **kamal2_espn** » Wed May 20, 2015 6:04 pm

theBigLip wrote:I'm intrigued more than I'm worried. As much as I hated Dumars' trades and FA signings, his drafting was pretty solid except for that Darko thing. We should just get a top 3 and I don't think we can f--k up.

Just Darko? Mateen Cleaves and Rodney White were pretty bad picks too.