Stanley Johnson should start over KCP not Morris.

pistontr · Post #1 » by **pistontr** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 7:33 am

We are last in assists per game
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/team/_/stat/miscellaneous-per-game

KCP is one of the worst playmaking shooting guards in the leauge
http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/assists/sort/avg48Assists/position/shooting-guards/order/false

We know that RJ is not a great playmaking guard and Morris has a good ball handling for a PF not a SF. Johnson has ball handling ability.

If you have one ball handling guy, you are easy to defend.

your opinion?

Todd3 · Post #2 » by **Todd3** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:24 am

I agree here. (I still disagree on RJs playmaking ability, as he showed what he can do last year with better shooters, but that is another topic).

On KCP, he not only has no ball handling ability, he also has one of the worst 3pt % of all starting SGs. He is literally useless on offense.

I would love to see what Johnson can do in that spot. People say he hasn't earned it, but what has KCP done to earn it? He has been entrenched in that spot for 3 yrs - the lone constant besides Drummond (who clearly isn't the problem) - and we wonder why we can never field a good shooting team. When your starting SG is shooting 29% from 3 and leading the team is 3FGAs, that is why.

joedumars1 · Post #3 » by **joedumars1** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:37 am

KCP has improved ever year in the league. This is only his 3rd year, only played 20MPG when he was a rookie. I'm going to give him a little more time to see if he can get his 3pt% up. Ideally 36% or better would be nice. I'm going to wait for about 10 more games or so before I start to get on our team and players to bad tho. KCP shot almost 1 more 3 per game last year in 6 minutes less PT, with a better percent, granted not that good of a percent, but better than last year. Seems the PT and guarding the best player could be getting to him, just like it might be Morris too.

princeofpalace · Post #4 » by **princeofpalace** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:01 am

If KCP doesnt take a leap this season, then he clearly isn't starting material. I think we need to go hard after Nik Batum this offseason and then see what SJ can do as a starting 2.

Billl · Post #5 » by **Billl** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 1:39 pm

"your opinion?"

SJ has stunk it up and hasn't earned a starting spot of any sort. Both KCP and Morris are outplaying him by significant margins.

SJ needs to step up and earn some backup minutes at this point so we don't have to play KCP and Morris the highest minutes in the league.

DBC10 · Post #6 » by **DBC10** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:36 pm

KCP still has gravity on his defender albeit a lot less than someone like Ersan is on the offensive end. So he still draws out his defender for a relatively open lane for RJ. I'm more concerned with Morris. It's not like RJ is being doubled or pummeled by KCP's defender by reach ins. RJ's decision making has been a huge part of our problems too and for an 80 million man, a part of the blame should fall on him.

And SJ hasn't earned it and we're not at that stage where we're going to have significant roster shakeups unless we go on a 5-23 run again like last year. SVG is way too stubborn to start a rookie over any of the more "established" players.

I half-pray we can get that scrub Josh Smith back and then waive him again so we can have some spark. Once the kids see Smith bricking 3 after 3, maybe it'll light a fire under them.

detroitKG · Post #7 » by **detroitKG** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:42 pm

Lol these threads are getting worse and worse by the day...SJ starting over KCP...lmao

detroitKG · Post #8 » by **detroitKG** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:51 pm

Todd3 wrote:I agree here. (I still disagree on RJs playmaking ability, as he showed what he can do last year with better shooters, but that is another topic).

On KCP, he not only has no ball handling ability, he also has one of the worst 3pt % of all starting SGs. He is literally useless on offense.

I would love to see what Johnson can do in that spot. People say he hasn't earned it, but what has KCP done to earn it? He has been entrenched in that spot for 3 yrs - the lone constant besides Drummond (who clearly isn't the problem) - and we wonder why we can never field a good shooting team. When your starting SG is shooting 29% from 3 and leading the team is 3FGAs, that is why.

Thats curious because that's probably the most notable difference in KCP so far this year...His ability to get to the hoop much easier and a big reason for that his improved handles...So I don't get your beef there...Only thing I'll agree with is that he needs to get his 3pt shot going because it has not been good this year.

Sj has done nothing to earn KCPs starting SG and thats fact.

DetPistons04 · Post #9 » by **DetPistons04** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 2:56 pm

Honestly if KCP keeps shooting this poorly I would be tempted to just move Morris to the bench and go a little small with SJ and KCP at the 2/3 and see how that works. Let KCP check the SG's and put SJ on the SF's. Offensively play them however... I do think putting Stanley in the starting unit could help a little with play making, but he's also a rookie and he's gonna make mistakes and have clunker games. KCP is such a valuable defensive player for us on the perimeter I just don't see how you can take him out of the starting unit right now. I would like to get a look at KCP and SJ together and let Morris take some of the scoring pressure off the bench guys.

detroitKG · Post #10 » by **detroitKG** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 3:01 pm

My thing from the beginning has been starting KCP AND SJ together with Morris at the 4. I'm still curious if we see it at some point this year. Just to see how we would start games. That's two good off the ball movers in KCP and SJ that might help our lack of movement on O. This O just baffles me honestly...how it can look the way it did the last quarter of the season last year to now is crazy. Chemistry is the only thing in my mind that's really different. So we'll see.

RexRyan · Post #11 » by **RexRyan** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 4:47 pm

Hopefully a healthy Jennings will give the offense a spark. I miss him dribbling around in circles and finding the open man.

As far as SJ/KCP, Johnson has an 82 game season ahead of him for the first time. There's no need to demote KCP, as he looks like he's continuing to progress imo. KCP should start. I like SJ, and eventually I think he'll start at the 3......

vic · Post #12 » by **vic** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 5:06 pm

detroitKG wrote:My thing from the beginning has been starting KCP AND SJ together with Morris at the 4. I'm still curious if we see it at some point this year. Just to see how we would start games. That's two good off the ball movers in KCP and SJ that might help our lack of movement on O. This O just baffles me honestly...how it can look the way it did the last quarter of the season last year to now is crazy. Chemistry is the only thing in my mind that's really different. So we'll see.

THIS.

KCP and SJ at 2 & 3
Morris at 4 or off the bench.

This will transform the offense just like the Josh Smith effect.. Watch. As soon as SVG does it the offense will change.

pistontr · Post #13 » by **pistontr** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 6:02 pm

3-D guys at shooting guard positions is trouble. your point guard should be great with the ball.
cris paul-morris peterson
steve nash-raja bell

in orlando svg had courtney lee but hedo turkoglu was great passer.
spurs had bruce bowen but they had great ball handler ginobili.

Todd3 · Post #14 » by **Todd3** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 8:47 pm

detroitKG wrote:
Todd3 wrote:I agree here. (I still disagree on RJs playmaking ability, as he showed what he can do last year with better shooters, but that is another topic).

On KCP, he not only has no ball handling ability, he also has one of the worst 3pt % of all starting SGs. He is literally useless on offense.

I would love to see what Johnson can do in that spot. People say he hasn't earned it, but what has KCP done to earn it? He has been entrenched in that spot for 3 yrs - the lone constant besides Drummond (who clearly isn't the problem) - and we wonder why we can never field a good shooting team. When your starting SG is shooting 29% from 3 and leading the team is 3FGAs, that is why.

Thats curious because that's probably the most notable difference in KCP so far this year...His ability to get to the hoop much easier and a big reason for that his improved handles...So I don't get your beef there...Only thing I'll agree with is that he needs to get his 3pt shot going because it has not been good this year.

Sj has done nothing to earn KCPs starting SG and thats fact.

KCP has done nothing to earn his starting spot offensively and that is a fact. We can sit and watch him shoot 33% from 3 for another year and wonder why our shooting is so bad, or we can acknowledge he isn't good enough and give someone else a look. Whether the next guy earned it or not is not the issue. The issue is the guy who is there now is not earning it and eventually you need to try something else.

The beef with his ball handling is that he is not a playmaker - amongst the worst SGs in Ast/TO as the OP posted - and asking our PG to run an offense with no shooters and be the only playmaker is just not going to work.. If our SG can't shoot consistently, he at least needs to be an extra playmaker to contribute something offensively. We can't expect Reggie to carry the whole backcourt by himself and then wonder why he turns it over so much. Its too easy and predictable to defend a 1 man backcourt. We need more from our SG position offensively plain and simple.

coordinator0 · Post #15 » by **coordinator0** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 9:05 pm

Caldwell-Pope's three point stroke will likely return to form. Most guys don't get that much worse while being in the same situation. Especially younger players. He shot 34.5% on quite a few attempts last year which was just below the league average. I would feel good about him ending up above that mark actually. His shot looks better this year and the substantial improvement at the free throw line supports that a little bit. He, like the rest of the team, is just in a slump right now. No big deal yet.

But the lack of playmaking from him is why I was arguing for Johnson to see bigger minutes at small forward earlier rather than later. Good offenses need more than one guy out there who run some plays so defenses can't focus in on one guy so much. Caldwell-Pope has never been much of a ball-handler and he probably won't ever be even after his supposed improvement in that over the summer. Kentavious doesn't turn the ball over much either though so it kind of evens it out.

Now Stanley hasn't earned a spot in the starting lineup yet but he should soon. Morris and/or Ilyasova aren't doing anything for ball movement on offense (Marcus is a far bigger negative in that regard than KCP) and neither are offering anywhere near the defensive edge that Caldwell-Pope does. He's not the one that needs to sit.

DBC10 · Post #16 » by **DBC10** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:16 pm

Honestly, the reason why our shooters are in a slump and noticeably worse is the fact that our half-court sets just plain don't work. Our offense is stagnant and very predictable so far. That's why we came out swinging (although with terrible efficiency) and then noticeably dropped off even further as time went on since we were scouted out and exposed.

One of the hugest things I've seen is the fact that nobody on this team wants to run. There is zero transition game being implemented in Stan's offensive philosophy right now. And that is one of the biggest reasons why our TS% is so low on our team, it allows defenses to set up their schemes since they know we're not going to push the tempo for an hyperathletic bucket. Every great team has had a top 5 transition game and we have none of that. Our guys are simply instructed not to run as much and stick to Stan's game plan.

I know this to be true since someone else also pointed out that nobody is cutting to the basket anymore and there is lack of flow. The way you start flow and easy backdoor cuts is through the transition game.

Pistone · Post #17 » by **Pistone** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:29 pm

Stanley Johnson should play good basketball
.

Todd3 · Post #18 » by **Todd3** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 10:41 pm

coordinator0 wrote:Caldwell-Pope's three point stroke will likely return to form. Most guys don't get that much worse while being in the same situation. Especially younger players. He shot 34.5% on quite a few attempts last year which was just below the league average. I would feel good about him ending up above that mark actually.

This is the problem. At best he is an average shooter. When we already have a PG who is an avg at best shooter and a non shooting C, how is that ever going to work?

Especially when Johnson is expected to be a starter eventually too and hasn't shown to be a great shooter yet either.

If we are building around Dre/RJ/SJ as our Big 3, we need elite shooters at the other 2 spots. Average isn't going to work.

I realize its still very early in the rebuild, but I'm just saying that has to be a concern of the front office when none of the 4 guys you are building around are great shooters, and you are trying to play a 4-1 system.

ImHeisenberg · Post #19 » by **ImHeisenberg** » Tue Nov 17, 2015 11:54 pm

I'm not sure whether KCP is playing bad on offense, or simply not being utilized properly. He doesn't get a whole lot of touches.

I'd still be open to shaking the starters up a bit.

kurtis48239 · Post #20 » by **kurtis48239** » Wed Nov 18, 2015 12:22 am

People are acting like SJ offensive game is any better than kcp,which it hasant been,defenders still respect kcps shot,because they know he can get hot or he can make those shots.Kcp driving game has gotten miles better this season,and his defense is top notch for his position at sg ...So why should SJ start over kcp???? If he should take anyones spot,it would be morris,SJ defense would be better improved over morris defense.If sj could start hitting some 3s,he would no doubt take it from morris..

Hopefuly stan looks to aquire a pf that not only can hit the 3 but is athletic and can play D.Move morris/ersan to the bench with jennings/meeks when they get back and we become a more complete team with a bench that can keep up with anyones in the league.