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Whats holding Stanley Johnson Back?

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Whats holding Stanley Johnson Back? 

Post#1 » by Blkbrd671 » Tue Dec 29, 2015 7:14 am

http://pistonpowered.com/2015/12/28/what-is-holding-stanley-johnson-back/


The takeaway here is predominantly positive. Johnson has the skills to be every bit as good a prospect as Winslow. He may lag a bit defensively, but he has more offensive talent. But holy cow does he ever need to work on his shot selection. Those two point jumpers are terrible! And that ignores all the times that he turns the ball over when he passes up a three point look to attempt a drive halfway to the rim. We can put some blame on the Pistons’ bench being so weak that Johnson is forced to take more shots than he really should. But Winslow could bring up the same excuse, and he’s not tanking his value with a ton of low percentage attempts. And as poor as Baynes, Blake, and company play at times, they can probably absorb a bit more usage at better nominal efficiency than 29%.

Stanley Johnson has actually converted his attempts at the rim and beyond the arc at significantly better rates than the other two. Those are the most valuable shots in the game. The problem is that he has shot more than a staggering triple the two point attempts of either of the others. And, probably because he has taken so many of those shots, he has hit them at abysmal rates. Even ignoring the value of putting opponents in foul trouble, the Pistons are 30% better off with Andre Drummond shooting free throws than with Johnson shooting a two from more than 3 feet out.

Hopefully Stan Van Gundy has noticed this same problem and is working with Johnson at improving his decision making. The Pistons have a solid prospect, but he’s not helping them right now nearly as much as he could be.


i didn't agree with article but i can appreciate the evaluation. I am sure when you look at a shot chart or stats that SJ's shot selection is questionable, but when i review film, SJ, for the most part has great shot selection and for the most part looks to be doing what coach is asking him. Attack the rim, don't settle for 3, find your spots, and post ups(which is probably his weakess). His decision making also isn't as bad as article seems, he has his rookie moments, but usage wise i think he has less rookie moments than your average rook.

I am admitily bias when it comes to sJ as i think the world of him, but having watched every game he's played in the NBA, i really don't agree with the some of this assessment. I think SJ has improved as the season goes on and has focused on doing certain things better rather than all over the place. I'd argue he's is our best bench player
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Re: Whats holding Stanley Johnson Back? 

Post#2 » by Spider156 » Tue Dec 29, 2015 8:03 am

The answer is simple. What's holding Stanley Johnson back is the starting position. If he starts his production will be maximized as the second play maker. But that won't happen until Jennings comes back. That hasn't happened yet but hopefully will soon. I think SVG should play Jennings in NYC. It all depends on when he thinks he's ready to play and he mentioned he did think he's ready. This team will have a new dynamic to it and it's exactly what it needs right now. Next two games should be exciting to watch. Stanley Johnson would excel starting at SF. He'd be great at the pick and roll with Drummond while also kicking out to KCP and Morris. It'll happen around the trade deadline.
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Re: Whats holding Stanley Johnson Back? 

Post#3 » by 7r5ur » Tue Dec 29, 2015 8:32 am

Experience / age


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Re: Whats holding Stanley Johnson Back? 

Post#4 » by Pharaoh » Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:20 am

SVG is holding him back!

And that's a good thing!

This is his rookie season and while he's got somewhat of a green light its not the full blown green light - he's gotta earn that.

It boggles my mind that people believe you can skip steps! SVG understands there is a formula for success and our team is following it:

Defense comes first
Rookies earn their position
Veterans shoulder the load

People talk about "unleashing" the offense, starting SJ, benching Illy and all kinds of things - not to steal Hinkie's lie but it's a process!

This season is about developing the core of the team the right way. Always has been IMO.

I hope that includes playoff experience but even if it doesn't that doesn't change the fact we've got a long season of doing it right prior to next season.

The work put in now will pay off then IMO
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Re: Whats holding Stanley Johnson Back? 

Post#5 » by Redeemed » Tue Dec 29, 2015 12:38 pm

Pharaoh wrote:SVG is holding him back!

And that's a good thing!

This is his rookie season and while he's got somewhat of a green light its not the full blown green light - he's gotta earn that.

It boggles my mind that people believe you can skip steps! SVG understands there is a formula for success and our team is following it:

Defense comes first
Rookies earn their position
Veterans shoulder the load

People talk about "unleashing" the offense, starting SJ, benching Illy and all kinds of things - not to steal Hinkie's lie but it's a process!

This season is about developing the core of the team the right way. Always has been IMO.

I hope that includes playoff experience but even if it doesn't that doesn't change the fact we've got a long season of doing it right prior to next season.

The work put in now will pay off then IMO


^^THIS

SVG has said he hates when young guys are anointed or handed the keys too early without earning it along the way. Stanimal is being built one brick at a time into a something great. It's coming. He showed it in summer league, he showed it in preseason, and he has shown it at various points during this season.

The lumps he takes during this season will become bullet points on his list of things that motivate him to greatness. The Hollis-Jefferson and Winslow comparisons right now don't matter. Give all the players a two to three year window and make your comparisons at that time.

Stanley Johnson is well on his way.
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Re: Whats holding Stanley Johnson Back? 

Post#6 » by mattao313 » Tue Dec 29, 2015 4:06 pm

Eh at first he was taking a lot of bad shots but the writer of the article must not be watching. He is taking what the defense gives him most of the time, plus those mid ranges shots was one of his strengths in college so it's not a bad shot to him.
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Re: Whats holding Stanley Johnson Back? 

Post#7 » by Billl » Tue Dec 29, 2015 4:45 pm

Nothing is "holding him back". He's a 1 and done rookie. He's talented, but he's got a lot to learn. He's on a team trying to make some noise, so he's not going to get the chance to play through mistakes like he would on a lottery team. Ultimately, I think that will be a good thing for him. The goal is for him to be a contributor on a championship caliber team, not score as many points as possible his rookie year.
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Re: Whats holding Stanley Johnson Back? 

Post#8 » by joedumars1 » Tue Dec 29, 2015 4:59 pm

http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2015/12/detroit_pistons_notes_stanley_6.html#incart_river_mobile_index


Here's a guy who watches the Pistons. I agree with his take. Is he going to keep this up for the rest of the year? Doubtful, but that would be sweet if he did or did better
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Re: Whats holding Stanley Johnson Back? 

Post#9 » by Arp590 » Tue Dec 29, 2015 5:20 pm

Most of the time those mid-range shots are what the defense is giving him and are good looks, he just doesn't make them most of the time.
I wouldn't say those shots are bad shot selection though.
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Re: Whats holding Stanley Johnson Back? 

Post#10 » by Brapman » Tue Dec 29, 2015 5:37 pm

Just watch him play. He's clearly getting better and better. He's one of the highest usage rookies in the league - meaning the ball is in his hands quite a bit. That's a neat trick for a non point guard and non center rookie.

This is a guy who is going to do everything well on the basketball floor - including think the game fast while he's playing. He plays fast and confidently, and his BB IQ may be off the charts. You have to remember when watching him play that he's one of the youngest guys in the league. He just turned 19 this summer.

As his team gets better around him - something that's happening as I'm typing as Blake was a waste after losing weeks to his concussion and is now playing very well, and will continue to happen as this young and new team (to each other) learns to play together -- that always takes time - SJ's performance will also get better. And his skill set will sharpen over the next few seasons.

Eventually, he's going to be a very good shooter in this league.

I know that KAT and Porzingis are outstanding young players. Some other guys from this rookie class have the potential to be excellent pros, and are starting to show it (Booker, Russell). But, I think SJ is going to be one of the best rookies in this strong class. The kid can really play, and he's as competitive as any pro. I think Stanley is going to be a top three player on a championship team - a multiple time all-star performer. There is no young three man group in the league I'd take over Drummond, Jackson and Johnson. (OKC's Durant, Westbrook and Ibaka I'm counting as too old for that comparison, because - well, just because :) )
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Re: Whats holding Stanley Johnson Back? 

Post#11 » by StunnaStan » Tue Dec 29, 2015 6:42 pm

Svg is holding him back. Watching kcp and morris play over sj is hilarious to me. If morris aint making long range 2 point fadeaways out of his post ups, hes useless. Kcp is still a chuck with no triple threat.
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Re: Whats holding Stanley Johnson Back? 

Post#12 » by Blkbrd671 » Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:04 pm

mattao313 wrote:Eh at first he was taking a lot of bad shots but the writer of the article must not be watching. He is taking what the defense gives him most of the time, plus those mid ranges shots was one of his strengths in college so it's not a bad shot to him.


His midrange shots and floaters have seem to get better as the season goes on. I notice SJ has his spots on the court that he normally shoots from, baseline , top of the key, corner 3. If he just finishes better at the rim, have 2-4 if not more ppg.
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Re: Whats holding Stanley Johnson Back? 

Post#13 » by Blkbrd671 » Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:07 pm

StunnaStan wrote:Svg is holding him back. Watching kcp and morris play over sj is hilarious to me. If morris aint making long range 2 point fadeaways out of his post ups, hes useless. Kcp is still a chuck with no triple threat.


i don't think SJ should be starting. He hasn't been a consistent enough player to start. That's asking for trouble. I do think that at times, SVG should not pull him from games, especially when he's clearly making a impact
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Re: Whats holding Stanley Johnson Back? 

Post#14 » by DBC10 » Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:10 pm

So far, he's what scouts have more or less predicted. Shots have occasional tendency to go in but often times not.

He really struggles to finish at the rim sometimes too. For a guy that was touted as one of the most "NBA ready" with his body alone, he hasn't been proving that claim just yet. Players like Porzingis and KAT have far better readiness to them thus far, which is funny with how Porzingis was touted as one of the most raw prospects with even Phil Jackson doubting his readiness from the start.

I expect him to get better, or he turns into the next slightly used rich man's Jae Crowder/Demarre Caroll or something.
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Re: Whats holding Stanley Johnson Back? 

Post#15 » by Blkbrd671 » Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:29 pm

joedumars1 wrote:http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2015/12/detroit_pistons_notes_stanley_6.html#incart_river_mobile_index


Here's a guy who watches the Pistons. I agree with his take. Is he going to keep this up for the rest of the year? Doubtful, but that would be sweet if he did or did better



The Detroit Pistons' rookie forward, 19, has had plenty of those in first few months in the NBA, but the latest light bulb went off when coach Stan Van Gundy suggested a change in his pre-game shooting routine.

"I thought I had one, but I didn't," said Johnson, the Pistons' eighth overall pick. "The shots I'm shooting before the game are the shots I'm shooting in the game. When you have a shot that you know you can make, you start with that, then you can always expand off that."



Before, Johnson says, he would spend in an ordinate amount of time before games shooting pull-up 3s, a routine he started in high school and continued in college "because I was just better than people."Now the emphasis is on higher-percentage shots, like 3-pointers from the corner and mid-range jumpers."Why am I wasting my time shooting drifts and not slideups, shots I am going to get most of my time?," Johnson said. "Those are the shots I'm going to get; they close in and I go by them. It seems simple, and that's why I didn't do them, because it's so simple. But you start making the shots and you think, 'Man, I should have done those a long time ago.'"
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Re: Whats holding Stanley Johnson Back? 

Post#16 » by ComboGuardCity » Tue Dec 29, 2015 11:45 pm

Stanley has an in between game. A lot like Pierce. People who don't watch him will say Wow where did that come from. But well know.
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Re: Whats holding Stanley Johnson Back? 

Post#17 » by sc8581 » Wed Dec 30, 2015 12:58 am

Length
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Re: Whats holding Stanley Johnson Back? 

Post#18 » by MrBigShot » Wed Dec 30, 2015 3:17 am

People had inflated expectations due to summer league and preseason, he's been fine. He's had bad games and he's had very good games. He's shown flashes of brilliance occasionally.

sc8581 wrote:Length


He's 6'7 with a 6'11 wingspan. He's no Kawhi Leonard but this isn't an issue.
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Re: Whats holding Stanley Johnson Back? 

Post#19 » by sc8581 » Wed Dec 30, 2015 5:23 pm

He's a slower SG that can play some SF, standing reach comes into play as much as wingspan, especially on offense.
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Re: Whats holding Stanley Johnson Back? 

Post#20 » by Brapman » Wed Dec 30, 2015 7:27 pm

No rookie, aside from the PG's, has his hands on the ball and is asked to run offenses as much as SJ does.

After a lousy first month, SJ's been shooting a high percentage of his 3 pt shots. It doesn't take a genius to see that he's going to be a good to great open 3 pt shooter. I don't expect him to be Ray Allen - able to make contested 3 pt shots. It also doesn't take a genius to see he's got a terrific mid-range game, or that his handle is strong.

Maybe it takes something more akin to a genius to see how fast he reacts on the floor. Kander used to talk about a player's ability to have a reflexive/nervous system body response

Here's an old article (snippet regarding what he said about Drummond):

“What an incredibly attentive young man,” the Pistons strength coach said of Drummond this week. “You ask him, ‘Andre, what did we talk about yesterday?’ He’ll repeat it, verbatim. He’s really taking it in, taking it home with him.

“He was here for four days. We had worked on his right leg – normal stuff, just develop a little more flexibility. He came back and I’m like, ‘Whoa, what happened? This is from A to at least somewhere in the middle of the alphabet. That’s pretty significant.’ He said, ‘Well, you told me to do it. Isn’t that what I was supposed to do?’

“I said, ‘Yes, but you did it like, really well.’ He said, ‘Well, I figured if it felt good and I was getting better at it, I should continue to do it.’ ”

Kander looks at Drummond and sees immense potential from a physical standpoint.

“Genetically gifted, body wise. What I love is the lower extremity body structure – big hips, big thighs. Kids that are big in the upper body but have smaller bases, a little more fragile. Things can go wrong. When you start off with a great foundation – like a house, you build from the basement up – he has it.”

And with Drummond’s quick mind and eagerness to improve, Kander sees the signs pointing to Drummond ultimately realizing that immense potential. Without knowing the specifics of Drummond’s situation at UConn as a freshman last season, Kander believes his underwhelming statistics – about 10 points and 7.5 rebounds a game – might have been Drummond looking to fit in.

“He’s not a selfish player,” Kander said. “He’s not going to try to get his numbers. He’s going to fit in to what he’s expected to do. I think if they’d actually told him, ‘We need 15, 18 points and nine rebounds and that’s what you’ve got to give us every night,’ I think he would have gotten that. He’ll put his energy into what you tell him you need. And that’s a great thing. To have an 18-year-old who actually does what you tell him to do? That’s all I’ve seen. Anything you tell him to do, he’ll do.”

Drummond has been working with both Kander and assistant coach Roy Rogers extensively during workouts at the team’s practice facility – Kander in the weight room and for movement and conditioning drills, Rogers for shooting drills, post footwork and moves around the basket.

First on Kander’s agenda: getting Drummond in tip-top shape.

“First thing always with a big, conditioning,” he said. “Get him in unbelievable shape to be able to run, be endurantly strong – the same mechanics, the same stride, active hands. Get good at turning. I’ll use Tim Duncan as an example, Rasheed Wallace, Ben Wallace. Whether it’s blocking shots, rebounds, posting up, turning into a step-back – all of that. To really getting equal with both sides of the body with rotation, left side, right side.”

Kander would like to see Drummond gain a little more upper-body strength, but is amazed at his overall strength given that Drummond came to the Pistons without ever having done any weight training.

“This is all natural,” he said. “So like anything, you’ve got to take your time with it. You can’t throw everything at him. His body’s got to adapt. But his learning curve is pretty high, so we’re going to take him at a pretty good pace here. This isn’t going to be a long-term thing. He’s going to be a guy who is going to advance real quick.”

In watching Drummond run, from end to end or in shorter bursts in half-court defensive settings, Kander sees things that go beyond what physical measurements and timed drills could ever tell him.

“He’s got a very elegant stride, beautiful mechanics,” Kander said. “Good running technique, head locked in. When he runs, he’s not bobbing back and forth. He’s very mechanically efficient. He stops quickly, transitions. He’s quick laterally. He doesn’t compensate or tip or lean, which a lot of bigs do. A lot of the bad habits you have to break, he hasn’t developed them. There are some things you work on when you get a little bit older, he’s right at that stage. The fact he shows that work ethic and wants to learn, the concentration and the focus on it, I see nothing but incredible upside.

“He’s got incredible lateral length. Some guys have long arms but have no lateral length. A guy might have a 7-3 wing span, but you get on the court and he’s 6-3. His testing and his movement are both good. He’s got that motor-neuron connection of when I move, I keep my length. I expand, I reach. That’s what you want to see. I hate the guys who static measure and then you watch them and they don’t use it.”

Part of Drummond’s evolution will be conditioning his mind as well as his body, Kander believes.

“I think he’s a thinker,” Kander said in assessing why Drummond might sometimes appear caught up in watching play unfold around him instead of forcing the action. “He might even be in the process of something that happened the play before, focusing on what he probably should have done. That’s just part of the developmental process, emotional maturity. Any drill we give him here, when you give him a concept, he locks in. He’s going to get a lot of different skill sets. Something happens in a game that’s different than what he learned in practice, he’s still learning to be able to stay with anything that comes at him that might work against what he’s used to learning. He’s learning to expand his reflexive field.”

Kander, like Pistons coaches who saw the way Drummond absorbed their lessons in Orlando, is eager to help him expand everything about his game.

“The things he does, you can’t teach. But he’s got to learn to expand the repertoire of the reflexes. A rebound means I’ve got to get quickly lateral and if something didn’t happen, I’m not with that anymore; I’m with the next thing that’s occurring. But 18 … he’s got so much potential.”


There are other articles like this. I'm telling you guys, SJ's got something "quick twitch" about him. He thinks the game faster than ordinary players. He has the ability to move a 1/2 step before other guys do. And there's nothing he won't do very well on the court, with the exception of being an above the rim finisher and defender. On the other hand, his body type, wingspan, BB IQ and competitiveness will make him a wildly valuable player at both ends of the court and in transition.

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