Stretch 4 or defensive 4?

El Chivo · Post #1 » by **El Chivo** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 8:15 am

everybody talking about Anderson, Markieff, Ilyasova and so on, but forgetting our frontcourt is defensively embarrassing.

Maybe we need a shot blocking and active in help defense 4 and shooting at wings, it's a pain to see us destroyed by every holy power forward or center.

tcj61298 · Post #2 » by **tcj61298** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 2:20 pm

SVG keeps haggling the Pistons to play better defense but it's never going to happen unless we put a defensive minded pf like serge ibaka next to dre. I feel like we need to surround dre with defensive players that play hard on defense and thatwill rub off of a dre to play better defense.

jakebernat · Post #3 » by **jakebernat** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 2:35 pm

why isn't getting dre to improve on defense an option? his post defense is embarrassingly bad, and his help defense is always half a second late. he's made some strides, but skilled centers constantly abuse him, and guards have no qualms about attacking the rim because they know they can get dre to make some kind of mistake.

Pugz · Post #4 » by **Pugz** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 2:46 pm

jakebernat wrote:why isn't getting dre to improve on defense an option? his post defense is embarrassingly bad, and his help defense is always half a second late. he's made some strides, but skilled centers constantly abuse him, and guards have no qualms about attacking the rim because they know they can get dre to make some kind of mistake.

hes almost to the point where he is what he is when it comes to defemse

vic · Post #5 » by **vic** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 3:37 pm

HOrford or Ibaka or Bobby Portis or Taj Gibson or Terrence Jones or a draft pick with defensive potential.

If not, just keep MOrris at the 4. I don't want no parts of no 4s that can't play defense.

If Anderson is on this team next year I'll be disappointed with SVG. He complains about defense every game but he has to realize that you only get consistent defense with defensive minded players.

bballnmike · Post #6 » by **bballnmike** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 4:03 pm

Pugz wrote:
jakebernat wrote:why isn't getting dre to improve on defense an option? his post defense is embarrassingly bad, and his help defense is always half a second late. he's made some strides, but skilled centers constantly abuse him, and guards have no qualms about attacking the rim because they know they can get dre to make some kind of mistake.
hes almost to the point where he is what he is when it comes to defemse

How so?

Post #7 » by **Timmaytime** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 4:13 pm

jakebernat wrote:why isn't getting dre to improve on defense an option? his post defense is embarrassingly bad, and his help defense is always half a second late. he's made some strides, but skilled centers constantly abuse him, and guards have no qualms about attacking the rim because they know they can get dre to make some kind of mistake.

He has the physical tools to be a good defender which is why certain advanced stats love his defense. Sadly he's still lost on rotations, gambles too much and overall makes poor decisions.

He doesn't have a great defensive IQ as of right now and that doesn't develop overnight

DetroitSho · Post #8 » by **DetroitSho** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 4:21 pm

vic wrote:HOrford or Ibaka or Bobby Portis or Taj Gibson or Terrence Jones or a draft pick with defensive potential.

If not, just keep MOrris at the 4. I don't want no parts of no 4s that can't play defense.

If Anderson is on this team next year I'll be disappointed with SVG. He complains about defense every game but he has to realize that you only get consistent defense with defensive minded players.

Bingo, I agree with you 99%. The Terrance Jones mention is what I can't get with it. I continue to fail to see what this forum sees in him. I think people really like Terrance Jones the player, ON PAPER. But what most people on here bill him to be is not what he actually is/does.

Laimbeer · Post #9 » by **Laimbeer** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 4:55 pm

bballnmike wrote:
Pugz wrote:
jakebernat wrote:why isn't getting dre to improve on defense an option? his post defense is embarrassingly bad, and his help defense is always half a second late. he's made some strides, but skilled centers constantly abuse him, and guards have no qualms about attacking the rim because they know they can get dre to make some kind of mistake.
hes almost to the point where he is what he is when it comes to defemse

How so?

He's suggesting 1) he isn't capable of improving anymore or 2) he doesn't put in the effort to improve

I suppose the other possibility is 3)he has the tools and desire, but he needs time and maturity

Laimbeer · Post #10 » by **Laimbeer** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 4:56 pm

DetroitSho wrote:
vic wrote:HOrford or Ibaka or Bobby Portis or Taj Gibson or Terrence Jones or a draft pick with defensive potential.

If not, just keep MOrris at the 4. I don't want no parts of no 4s that can't play defense.

If Anderson is on this team next year I'll be disappointed with SVG. He complains about defense every game but he has to realize that you only get consistent defense with defensive minded players.

Bingo, I agree with you 99%. The Terrance Jones mention is what I can't get with it. I continue to fail to see what this forum sees in him. I think people really like Terrance Jones the player, ON PAPER. But what most people on here bill him to be is not what he actually is/does.

And most times he's mentioned by Rocket fans they are dumping on him and really don't care to keep him around.

Post #11 » by **dVs33** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 5:06 pm

For me, defence is all a mind set. There are obviously a lot of guys who are naturally gifted with the instincts to play d, but it can also be taught if the player buys in. If dre can focus on d and play to his potential we could get a offensive minded 4 without losing too much on d.
It comes down to dre being the defensive anchor because he'll never be a shooter.

DetroitSho · Post #12 » by **DetroitSho** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 5:06 pm

Laimbeer wrote:
DetroitSho wrote:
vic wrote:HOrford or Ibaka or Bobby Portis or Taj Gibson or Terrence Jones or a draft pick with defensive potential.

If not, just keep MOrris at the 4. I don't want no parts of no 4s that can't play defense.

If Anderson is on this team next year I'll be disappointed with SVG. He complains about defense every game but he has to realize that you only get consistent defense with defensive minded players.

Bingo, I agree with you 99%. The Terrance Jones mention is what I can't get with it. I continue to fail to see what this forum sees in him. I think people really like Terrance Jones the player, ON PAPER. But what most people on here bill him to be is not what he actually is/does.

And most times he's mentioned by Rocket fans they are dumping on him and really don't care to keep him around.

Exactly

Kilo · Post #13 » by **Kilo** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 5:16 pm

Stan likes to pay lip service to defense but has Ersan and Tolliver as our PF's and is supposedly hot for Ryan Anderson in the off-season - so his words don't match his actions. Not to mention along with PF signing, re-upping Dre and Reggie's extension last off-season our three highest paid players will be crummy defensive ones.

But hey Stanley, Kentavious, Brandon and Mook you better D up hard or else.

Kilo · Post #14 » by **Kilo** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 5:20 pm

4-out-1-in SUCKS. It does nothing other than inflates Dre's rebounding numbers to trick folks into thinking he's something special in that area. Andre simply isn't good enough an offensive player for this offensive set-up and leaves SG, SF and PF waiting around for table scraps after Reggie/Dre do their thing every damn set.

El Chivo · Post #15 » by **El Chivo** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 5:22 pm

4 out 1 in does not suck. it sucks when your playbook is high p'n'r' and no else.

Post #16 » by **dVs33** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 5:25 pm

I guess I'm in the minority but I don't think ilyasova is that bad a defender. He got torched by one of the best offensive PFs, love, but everyone does. He gets charges, he contests - I don't think he's the biggest problem with our defence.
I can't think of a stretch 4 that plays significantly better d that is attainable.
As for tolliver, he's all hustle. He's not greatest, but he's good for a cheap bench guy.

Post #17 » by **dVs33** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 5:28 pm

El Chivo wrote:4 out 1 in does not suck. it sucks when your playbook is high p'n'r' and no else.

That's on Reggie though. He needs to take the blinders off more often and get others involved. It would also help if our "shooters" could be consistent.

El Chivo · Post #18 » by **El Chivo** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 5:49 pm

dVs33 wrote:I guess I'm in the minority but I don't think ilyasova is that bad a defender. He got torched by one of the best offensive PFs, love, but everyone does. He gets charges, he contests - I don't think he's the biggest problem with our defence.
I can't think of a stretch 4 that plays significantly better d that is attainable.
As for tolliver, he's all hustle. He's not greatest, but he's good for a cheap bench guy.

I'm fine with Illy and I'd like his option to be picked up.

I don't want Anderson for 15+ mln a year. I'd rather sign a defensive and athletic 4 to share minutes with Illy.

Pugz · Post #19 » by **Pugz** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 6:00 pm

Laimbeer wrote:
bballnmike wrote:
Pugz wrote:hes almost to the point where he is what he is when it comes to defemse

How so?

He's suggesting 1) he isn't capable of improving anymore or 2) he doesn't put in the effort to improve

I suppose the other possibility is 3)he has the tools and desire, but he needs time and maturity

its a little bit of 2 and 3 but with his star getting bigger i dont think hes gonna put the effort towards defense as much.

Laimbeer · Post #20 » by **Laimbeer** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 6:17 pm

El Chivo wrote:
dVs33 wrote:I guess I'm in the minority but I don't think ilyasova is that bad a defender. He got torched by one of the best offensive PFs, love, but everyone does. He gets charges, he contests - I don't think he's the biggest problem with our defence.
I can't think of a stretch 4 that plays significantly better d that is attainable.
As for tolliver, he's all hustle. He's not greatest, but he's good for a cheap bench guy.

I'm fine with Illy and I'd like his option to be picked up.

I don't want Anderson for 15+ mln a year. I'd rather sign a defensive and athletic 4 to share minutes with Illy.

Jones? Powell?