What's the biggest reason Dre hasn't improved more defensively?

Laimbeer · Post #1 » by **Laimbeer** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 6:20 pm

You know what to do.

Todd3 · Post #2 » by **Todd3** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 7:20 pm

You mean the guy who is 4th in the league in defensive rating, 2nd in defensive win shares, 1st in defensive rebounds, 1st in steals among Centers, 7th on the Pistons all-time blocks list 3.5 yrs into his career, and currently leading a top 10 defense?

This ought to be interesting...lol

jakebernat · Post #3 » by **jakebernat** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 7:30 pm

Todd3 wrote:You mean the guy who is 4th in the league in defensive rating, 2nd in defensive win shares, 1st in defensive rebounds, 1st in steals among Centers, 7th on the Pistons all-time blocks list 3.5 yrs into his career, and currently leading a top 10 defense?

This ought to be interesting...lol

Are you suggesting that Dre is an elite defensive player?

This ought to be interesting...

jakebernat · Post #4 » by **jakebernat** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 7:36 pm

Sometimes I forget that Dre is only 22, so the obvious/easy answer is that he just needs more time. This is his first season as a centerpiece, and there has obviously been a huge adjustment for him on both ends.

That being said, he has a LOOOOOONG way to go. Some guys come into the league and are able to affect games defensively right away. Dre is not one of those players. He consistently relies on his physical gifts to get by. This is evidenced by his gambles and late rotations. Simply put, he doesn't quite "think the game" nearly as well as we need him to. The only way he'll get better is time.

Blomberg · Post #5 » by **Blomberg** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 7:37 pm

jakebernat wrote:
Todd3 wrote:You mean the guy who is 4th in the league in defensive rating, 2nd in defensive win shares, 1st in defensive rebounds, 1st in steals among Centers, 7th on the Pistons all-time blocks list 3.5 yrs into his career, and currently leading a top 10 defense?

This ought to be interesting...lol

Are you suggesting that Dre is an elite defensive player?

This ought to be interesting...

This is interesting. Why does he look so much worse than his defensive stats suggest? Only thing that comes to mind is that defensive statistics in general are flawed.

Billl · Post #6 » by **Billl** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 7:50 pm

I think it's pretty clear that he just doesn't stay engaged all the time and give 100% effort. He'll dominate for stretches and then let guys walk in for layups or just make some lazy reach.

Will he develop better habits? I sure hope so. It's going to take a change in mentality though, not just more time. Players are just too good in this league for guys to take possessions off on the defensive end. If you give up a couple layups in a row, suddenly people are draining shots like they are steph curry or something.

MrBigShot · Post #7 » by **MrBigShot** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 7:54 pm

Blomberg wrote:
jakebernat wrote:
Todd3 wrote:You mean the guy who is 4th in the league in defensive rating, 2nd in defensive win shares, 1st in defensive rebounds, 1st in steals among Centers, 7th on the Pistons all-time blocks list 3.5 yrs into his career, and currently leading a top 10 defense?

This ought to be interesting...lol

Are you suggesting that Dre is an elite defensive player?

This ought to be interesting...

This is interesting. Why does he look so much worse than his defensive stats suggest? Only thing that comes to mind is that defensive statistics in general are flawed.

Probably because with his combination of physical tools and athleticism DPOY is up for grabs if he wants it, if he can add the basketball knowledge defensively to go along with it. Don't get me wrong Kawhi Leonard is a monster defensive player, but a dominant big man anchoring a defense and protecting the rim will inherently have more impact defensively than a dominant perimeter defender. All of the greatest defenders ever...think KG, DRob, Big Ben, Bill Russell, Hakeem...they are typically big men that anchor a defense.

He gets defensively on raw talent/instincts now, but I think people want to see him be a smart/savvy defensive player as well. And to a lesser extent I think he's just ok with being a very good player that makes several all star games rather than a dominant one that will be remembered as a legend. Which I can understandable, basketball isn't everything in life. And become dominant or not the money will be there, he's getting maxed this off season. And the fame will be there. Imo he doesn't have the drive that say, Stanley has.

RexRyan · Post #8 » by **RexRyan** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 7:58 pm

More time. Dre's getting a lot of experience as Reggie's getting torched on a regular basis.

One thing I noticed yesterday is that Dre was very still guarding Lopez the first three quarters, and Lopez was hitting shot after shot. Then in the fourth, when Lopez got the ball, Dre was waving his hands and shuffling his feet, and Lopez missed a few shots. Just the illusion of intensity helps defensively against a lot of players.......

Spider156 · Post #9 » by **Spider156** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 8:14 pm

Dre is basically maximizing what he can do by sacrificing other aspects of defense. For example instead of showing up to the PG on the screen, he'd rather roll to the basket and get the rebound while Reggie fights off the screen and hope the offense misses the low percentage midrange. Another example would be not going up to block the shot and focusing more on getting the rebound. I also think he's lazy sometimes and dogs it and needs more time to grow up.

DETermination · Post #10 » by **DETermination** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 8:21 pm

Pistons need to hire Ben Wallace to coach him on defense. I do think Dre will improve on defense he has plenty of time to do so at age 22, but if Ben was there to coach him/mentor him i think he would improve much faster. I think he has the tools to become an elite defender who knows if it will happen tho.

Todd3 · Post #11 » by **Todd3** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 8:47 pm

Blomberg wrote:
jakebernat wrote:
Todd3 wrote:You mean the guy who is 4th in the league in defensive rating, 2nd in defensive win shares, 1st in defensive rebounds, 1st in steals among Centers, 7th on the Pistons all-time blocks list 3.5 yrs into his career, and currently leading a top 10 defense?

This ought to be interesting...lol

Are you suggesting that Dre is an elite defensive player?

This ought to be interesting...

This is interesting. Why does he look so much worse than his defensive stats suggest? Only thing that comes to mind is that defensive statistics in general are flawed.

Or the people complaining don't know what they're watching... have unrealistic expectations...blame the wrong player for others mistakes...underrate his opponents...

That, or the stats that feature all of the leagues best defenders are suddenly flawed because Drummond is on it :roll:

I tend to go with the former, personally.

Navas · Post #12 » by **Navas** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 8:49 pm

More time, in this case. He relies on his athletic ability too much.

vic · Post #13 » by **vic** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 8:49 pm

Drummond HAS improved defensively... rebounding is a part of defense. But I think people are expecting too much. People want him to be a defense-first player. That's just not who he is personally. He likes to score. Defensive minded players are driven on the inside by defense. Offensive minded guys like to score more than they like stops. Its just how you're made.

Its okay he's still a great player and he will be a good defender eventually. But he's not the defensive superstar type like Wallace/Rodman/Kawhi/Iguodala/Mutumbo.
Not everybody can be a two-way superstar like Tim Duncan and Garnett. SVG just has to put the right people around him (and its not Ryan Anderson, or Kevin Love, or Ersan Ilyasova).

DBC10 · Post #14 » by **DBC10** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 9:16 pm

I think what's telling is the consistent call outs on from members here defensively for Dre every time we see him miss an obvious rotation or let a guard have a layup line. I think that can be agreed upon that Dre's defense hasn't been that great despite the defensive stats (generally flawed and hard to quantify without proper context).

I wish I had access to Synergy's actual database(not the watered down version on nba.com that's used too frequently) because that is one software where you can visualize and track quantifiably. It's good to see that I'm not alone in seeing the step back in defense Dre is this year though. Maybe he really isn't that player, which is fine since his main strength is rebounds (DEF/OFF) and hook shotting over average centers.

Blomberg · Post #15 » by **Blomberg** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 9:25 pm

Todd3 wrote:
Blomberg wrote:
jakebernat wrote:
Are you suggesting that Dre is an elite defensive player?

This ought to be interesting...

This is interesting. Why does he look so much worse than his defensive stats suggest? Only thing that comes to mind is that defensive statistics in general are flawed.

Or the people complaining don't know what they're watching... have unrealistic expectations...blame the wrong player for others mistakes...underrate his opponents...

That, or the stats that feature all of the leagues best defenders are suddenly flawed because Drummond is on it

I tend to go with the former, personally.

Its not that I think he sucks defensively when I watch him play. I think at the moment he is average compared to other starting centers. But those stats suggest he is already elite. Would you call him elite defender right now?

DetroitSho · Post #16 » by **DetroitSho** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 9:32 pm

DETermination wrote:Pistons need to hire Ben Wallace to coach him on defense. I do think Dre will improve on defense he has plenty of time to do so at age 22, but if Ben was there to coach him/mentor him i think he would improve much faster. I think he has the tools to become an elite defender who knows if it will happen tho.

Orrrrrrr.....orrrrrrrr we can hire Lindsey Hunter to teach our PGs how to stay in front of their damn man. When you have a leak you don't go buy a new bucket to replace the old one catching the water. You actually call a plumber to fix the source of the leak. If Andre has to constantly play 2 on 1 and try to decide if he should go for the block (and undoubtedly give up an offensive rebound if he misses the block) or stay glued to his man to take away the lob and hope the pg misses, he'll look bad at times.

Andre is an ok to good defender overall. He's just not the dynamite shot blocker people wish he were. Reggie is TERRIBLE on defense. If he was just good, this thread wouldn't even exist. Nobody is even asking for Lindsey Hunter D. I'd take Utah game Reggie, fighting through screens and actually going UNDER screens on non shooters.

Todd3 · Post #17 » by **Todd3** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 9:37 pm

jakebernat wrote:
Todd3 wrote:You mean the guy who is 4th in the league in defensive rating, 2nd in defensive win shares, 1st in defensive rebounds, 1st in steals among Centers, 7th on the Pistons all-time blocks list 3.5 yrs into his career, and currently leading a top 10 defense?

This ought to be interesting...lol

Are you suggesting that Dre is an elite defensive player?

This ought to be interesting...

I'm questioning why someone would be questioning his improvement defensively, when he has improved across the board statistically and is leading a defense that's improved from bottom 1/3 to top 10 since last year.

Unrealistic expectations? Lack of understanding the game? Just hating?

I don't know, but it's a complete joke to me that a player can rank near the top of the league in so many categories (on both sides) and people are still complaining.

1st in Points in the paint
1st in Putbacks
1st in Pick & Roll FG%
1st in Total Rebounds
1st in Total Rebound %
1st in Defensive Rebounds
1st in Defensive Rebound %
1st in Offensive Rebounds
1st in Steals among Centers
2nd in Defensive Win Shares
2nd in Offensive Rebound %
4th in Defensive Win Shares
Top 10 in FG%
Top 15 in Blocks
Top 20 in PER

Just be happy you got a star and stop nitpicking.

mattao313 · Post #18 » by **mattao313** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 9:39 pm

DetroitSho wrote:
DETermination wrote:Pistons need to hire Ben Wallace to coach him on defense. I do think Dre will improve on defense he has plenty of time to do so at age 22, but if Ben was there to coach him/mentor him i think he would improve much faster. I think he has the tools to become an elite defender who knows if it will happen tho.

Orrrrrrr.....orrrrrrrr we can hire Lindsey Hunter to teach our PGs how to stay in front of their damn man. When you have a leak you don't go buy a new bucket to replace the old one catching the water. You actually call a plumber to fix the source of the leak. If Andre has to constantly play 2 on 1 and try to decide if he should go for the block (and undoubtedly give up an offensive rebound if he misses the block) or stay glued to his man to take away the lob and hope the pg misses, he'll look bad at times.

Andre is an ok to good defender overall. He's just not the dynamite shot blocker people wish he were. Reggie is TERRIBLE on defense. If he was just good, this thread wouldn't even exist. Nobody is even asking for Lindsey Hunter D. I'd take Utah game Reggie, fighting through screens and actually going UNDER screens on non shooters.

This, Andre has improved on defense but when our PG's can't keep their man in front of them for 2 seconds he gets put in a bad place. SVG needs to improve his schemes both on the defense and offensive side of the court you can't just blame the players at this point.

Todd3 · Post #19 » by **Todd3** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 10:39 pm

Blomberg wrote:
Todd3 wrote:
Blomberg wrote:
This is interesting. Why does he look so much worse than his defensive stats suggest? Only thing that comes to mind is that defensive statistics in general are flawed.

Or the people complaining don't know what they're watching... have unrealistic expectations...blame the wrong player for others mistakes...underrate his opponents...

That, or the stats that feature all of the leagues best defenders are suddenly flawed because Drummond is on it

I tend to go with the former, personally.

Its not that I think he sucks defensively when I watch him play. I think at the moment he is average compared to other starting centers. But those stats suggest he is already elite. Would you call him elite defender right now?

I think he's good enough to anchor a top 10 defense. Whether you consider that elite or not is up to you.

I don't consider him a defensive C like a Ben Wallace though. I think he's Moses Malone 2.0 (which is even better), and I think when people realize that they might stop nitpicking over defense.

Jstock12 · Post #20 » by **Jstock12** » Tue Feb 2, 2016 10:42 pm

Todd3 wrote:
Blomberg wrote:
Todd3 wrote:
Or the people complaining don't know what they're watching... have unrealistic expectations...blame the wrong player for others mistakes...underrate his opponents...

That, or the stats that feature all of the leagues best defenders are suddenly flawed because Drummond is on it

I tend to go with the former, personally.

Its not that I think he sucks defensively when I watch him play. I think at the moment he is average compared to other starting centers. But those stats suggest he is already elite. Would you call him elite defender right now?

I think he's good enough to anchor a top 10 defense. Whether you consider that elite or not is up to you.

I don't consider him a defensive C like a Ben Wallace though. I think he's Moses Malone 2.0 (which is even better), and I think when people realize that they might stop nitpicking over defense.

Can an active player be inducted into HOF? If so, when is Dre getting inducted? Why hasn't he already???