What can Pistons learn from WCF and ECF?

[edmunder_prc]

I have some ideas about what the Pistons can learn about themselves and how they need to play to be competitive in the future. Its likely these 4 teams, plus some others will be good in the following years.

THUNDER:

Pistons play a very similar offense as the Thunder. I think that's why SVG went after Reggie Jackson. Westbrook is usually at the top of the key, Adams comes up to give him a pick, he drives and shoots or dishes. Other times Durant has the ball at the top of the key but Westbrook is also out beyond the 3point line, near the side of the court, they take turns.

Some problems:

Reggie isn't Westbrook in offense or defense. He isn't as fast, cant body up to guys bigger than him, etc. That hurts the Pistons if they want to run the same offense. The key piece isn't as good as others doing the same thing.

Adams can hit free throws, box out, set picks (he seems to be wider than Andre) like Andre. This is more or less a wash, but Adams can hit free throws. GSW want to play Ezeli more but he is very bad at free throws. OKC put him on the line and he misses. You can bet if the Pistons go to the ECF Drummond will go to the line.

Roberson has been defending Curry/Thompson well. He is much like KCP, but KCP can clearly shoot the ball better.

Bogut and Barnes can't match up to Adams/Ibaka/Durant. Thunder have so much length. Pistons don't have nearly that speed or length with Drummond, Harris, Morris. Pistons play hard but the elite athleticism and length/strength is not there with Harris/Morris.

No Durant or Ibaka. Pistons run a similar offense as OKC but no one can play the Durant role. We have M.Morris and he can take shots from the outside, play by himself but no comparison. T.Harris I haven't really seen enough of yet, but it doesn't seem like he will be the second banana on the team, with ball handling, shooting, driving. Will KCP become Durant like? Ibaka is shooting the 3 well, plays as rim defender, altering shots he doesn't block. T.Harris and Morris are not Ibaka.

Reggie makes 14 million, T.Harris 16 million. Talk of KCP making 15 million a year.
Westbrook 16 million, Durant 20 million, Ibaka 12 million.

Another interesting point is that in the playoffs the Pistons had the highest Field Goal Percentage of any team. They shot much better than any period in the regular season. Its unlikely to see that kind of shooting again, certainly not through all the rounds of the playoffs. With less talent overall, playing a similar system as OKC, can they be successful?


CAVS:

In the last two games the Raptors have won with great shooting from Lowry/DeRozan and strong play by Biyombo. So The CAVS put Channing Frye on the outside and took Biyombo to the 3 point line to take away his defense. Kevin Love played well against the Pistons and Tobias Harris couldn't guard him. Seems CAVS have a couple of ways to neutralize the Pistons if they go small with Frye or use Love and Thompson against Harris and Drummond.

One thing Raptors don't really have that Pistons have is Stanley Johnson defense on Lebron. They use Carrol but he is afraid of Lebron posting him up and are trying to switch Biyombo onto him when Lebron starts to get closer to the rim.

What else can we learn from the WCF and ECF about the Pistons?

[Finn McCool]

That a groin kick is better than a nut punch.

[MotownMadness]

We need another big like the Thunder have in Kanter and Adams. If we get a backup 4/5 that we could bring in at times to punish small ball with twin towers I think would be good.

[Joe Berry]

We need another big like the Thunder have in Kanter and Adams. If we get a backup 4/5 that we could bring in at times to punish small ball with twin towers I think would be good.

We got almost exactly that in Drummond & Baynes. What we really could use is a good defending stretch 4 like Ibaka, oh yeah and an MVP wing like Durant wouldn't hurt either.

[MotownMadness]

We need another big like the Thunder have in Kanter and Adams. If we get a backup 4/5 that we could bring in at times to punish small ball with twin towers I think would be good.

We got almost exactly that in Drummond & Baynes. What we really could use is a good defending stretch 4 like Ibaka, oh yeah and an MVP wing like Durant wouldn't hurt either.

True

[Pharaoh]

We need another big like the Thunder have in Kanter and Adams. If we get a backup 4/5 that we could bring in at times to punish small ball with twin towers I think would be good.

We got almost exactly that in Drummond & Baynes.

No we don't! Neither of our guys can defend on the perimeter or stretch the D to the 3 point line

This is why SVG wants a bigger, longer PF that is Ibaka-like

[DBC10]

Learning that defense really does win championships. As it always has.

Not only that, but every position can switch at will makes a team go from a treadmill to near contender status.

The SG position isn't our primary problem as some might suggest.

How deep rosters are in contrary to our bench.

[Pharaoh]

The switching OKC have done is exactly what the 72 win Bulls would have done:

A line up of Rodman, Kukoc, Pippen, Jordan & Harper is switch city on the perimeter so you can slow a lot of what GS do as a unit.

Ibaka, Durant, Roberson, Waiters, Westbrook might not be a "sexy" line up but it's been outstanding

[mattao313]

The switching OKC have done is exactly what the 72 win Bulls would have done:

A line up of Rodman, Kukoc, Pippen, Jordan & Harper is switch city on the perimeter so you can slow a lot of what GS do as a unit.

Ibaka, Durant, Roberson, Waiters, Westbrook might not be a "sexy" line up but it's been outstanding

What's not "sexy" about having a lineup with two superstars in it?

[MrBigShot]

You need top tier talent to win. If you can get top tier talent, you do it. This current core of Reggie, KCP, Stanley, Harris, Dre wont get us anywhere, we need further changes if we want to win championship. The Thunder have top 5 players in KD/WB, GS has Curry, Cavs have LeBron. And non top of that the Cavs have another all star level player and GS has 2 other all star level players.

Also you need a team that is versatile enough to defend against any team. Much like OKC has adapted its lineups to defend golden state so well.

[Cowology]

I've learned that if you have guys named LeBron, Irving, Durant, Westbrook or Curry you are probably in pretty good shape. And yes, versatility is a good thing. To see OKC matchup with SA and now GS is damn impressive.

[Snakebites]

I've learned that if you have guys named LeBron, Irving, Durant, Westbrook or Curry you are probably in pretty good shape. And yes, versatility is a good thing. To see OKC matchup with SA and now GS is damn impressive.

Yeah, that's what I've learned too. Superstars are good.

Already knew that. Also learned that I love watching Russell Westbrook and would sacrifice a limb to have him on the Pistons. Already knew that too.

[DBC10]

You need top tier talent to win. If you can get top tier talent, you do it. This current core of Reggie, KCP, Stanley, Harris, Dre wont get us anywhere, we need further changes if we want to win championship. The Thunder have top 5 players in KD/WB, GS has Curry, Cavs have LeBron. And non top of that the Cavs have another all star level player and GS has 2 other all star level players.

Also you need a team that is versatile enough to defend against any team. Much like OKC has adapted its lineups to defend golden state so well.

Which is why I believe that any one of our starters should never be placed under the "untouchable" label. At this rate, we're a slightly better version of the Celtics but with a way worse bench.

If we can get Cousins, we do it.
If we can get a star PG that can run the offense 24/7 correctly and play semblance of defense, then we do it
If we can get Butler, we do it.
If we can get a Love type player, we do it.

[epheisey]

I've learned that if you have guys named LeBron, Irving, Durant, Westbrook or Curry you are probably in pretty good shape. And yes, versatility is a good thing. To see OKC matchup with SA and now GS is damn impressive.

Yeah, that's what I've learned too. Superstars are good.

Already knew that. Also learned that I love watching Russell Westbrook and would sacrifice a limb to have him on the Pistons. Already knew that too.

I would sacrifice far more than a limb. IMO he's been the better player than KD for a couple seasons.

[ElectricMayhem]

I love watching Russell Westbrook and would sacrifice a limb to have him on the Pistons.

Hyperbole or f'real?

[In SVG We Trust]

Russ is the best player on the earth right now

[edmunder_prc]

Which is why I believe that any one of our starters should never be placed under the "untouchable" label. At this rate, we're a slightly better version of the Celtics but with a way worse bench.

If we can get Cousins, we do it.
If we can get a star PG that can run the offense 24/7 correctly and play semblance of defense, then we do it
If we can get Butler, we do it.
If we can get a Love type player, we do it.

Biggest issue for the Pistons is lack of talent.

Starters:

Starters are good, often very good, but are they playoffs good? Not the same thing. Atlanta Hawks last year are a great example. They played well together, shot the ball well, etc. But with all those TV time outs, days between games, the most important thing is being able to play at an extremely high level every possession over the course of a 7-game series. Hawks didn't have the talent Cavs had, not even close.

Who on the Pistons is really the man, who can take over games? I guess the hope is that it will be Stanley Johnson, or Reggie gets a little bit better. Or both would be ideal and certainly it is possible.

Bench:

Pistons bench sucks. Stanley played very well during the playoffs against the Cavs, so there is hope that one guy will be good in the future.

GSW had Iguodala as MVP off the bench. Livingston can ball.
Cavs have Delladova, Frye, hell Mo Williams would be better than anyone on the bench and he doesn't even play.
OKC have Waiters, Kanter, Foye has been playing well.


So the Pistons are actually further behind in talent than it appears. Starters aren't playoffs talented, they are regular season talented. Bench is all-time terrible level badness.

I agree about Cousins or Love. Play them at the 5.
Butler at the 3 would be helpful but hopefully Stanley takes that over.

Butler for KCP, M. Morris and 1st round pick?

[BadMofoPimp]

Which is why I believe that any one of our starters should never be placed under the "untouchable" label. At this rate, we're a slightly better version of the Celtics but with a way worse bench.

If we can get Cousins, we do it.
If we can get a star PG that can run the offense 24/7 correctly and play semblance of defense, then we do it
If we can get Butler, we do it.
If we can get a Love type player, we do it.

Biggest issue for the Pistons is lack of talent.

Starters:

Starters are good, often very good, but are they playoffs good? Not the same thing. Atlanta Hawks last year are a great example. They played well together, shot the ball well, etc. But with all those TV time outs, days between games, the most important thing is being able to play at an extremely high level every possession over the course of a 7-game series. Hawks didn't have the talent Cavs had, not even close.

Who on the Pistons is really the man, who can take over games? I guess the hope is that it will be Stanley Johnson, or Reggie gets a little bit better. Or both would be ideal and certainly it is possible.

Bench:

Pistons bench sucks. Stanley played very well during the playoffs against the Cavs, so there is hope that one guy will be good in the future.

GSW had Iguodala as MVP off the bench. Livingston can ball.
Cavs have Delladova, Frye, hell Mo Williams would be better than anyone on the bench and he doesn't even play.
OKC have Waiters, Kanter, Foye has been playing well.


So the Pistons are actually further behind in talent than it appears. Starters aren't playoffs talented, they are regular season talented. Bench is all-time terrible level badness.

I agree about Cousins or Love. Play them at the 5.
Butler at the 3 would be helpful but hopefully Stanley takes that over.

Butler for KCP, M. Morris and 1st round pick?

Raptors are giving the Cavs a challenge in the ECF without their starting Center and no real PF of which their backup Center and main PF (Patterson) can't score. Thus, they really have 2 scorers in which the other team can concentrate on stopping and still pull out wins.

It ain't about saying you have to have a starting player who does certain things, but which group best plays like a team. Teams win Ships, not individual players.

Pistons TEAM will be just fine with just a little fine tweaking by adding 2-3 more bench role players. Then, just watch them develop over the next few years.

[RexRyan]

Raptors are giving the Cavs a challenge in the ECF without their starting Center and no real PF of which their backup Center and main PF (Patterson) can't score. Thus, they really have 2 scorers in which the other team can concentrate on stopping and still pull out wins.

It ain't about saying you have to have a starting player who does certain things, but which group best plays like a team. Teams win Ships, not individual players.

Pistons TEAM will be just fine with just a little fine tweaking by adding 2-3 more bench role players. Then, just watch them develop over the next few years.

Amen. All should remain calm. Passing judgment on one playoff series is pure foolishness.

Our top six players are all on the upswing. Next year, they'll all get an opportunity to grow. Then, we figure out exactly what we need going forward. If we're trading two of our top six, it better be for a top ten player with a good attitude and a good knee.

Here's what I've learned from the WCF - they're daring anyone not named Curry or Thompson to beat them offensively, sometimes to the point where they're leaving them completely unguarded. And those players are scared to step up. Green and Barnes have stunk up the joint, and at least Bogut is smart enough to know that he's not capable. Tonight I would expect the Warriors to give extra minutes to a chucker type (Barbosa?) and hope that he gets hot.

[Billl]

The conference finals are a good reminder how big of a gap there is between our current defense and championship level defense. Realistically, all of these teams would be getting penetration against us and then taking advantage of our lack of shotblocking and interior D. We've got good enough athletes at each position now that we are capable of being a good defensive team, but we've got a lot of stuff to clean up. We also need to add depth defensively so that we aren't riding our best defenders 40 mpg.