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I'd like to preface and say this isn't a SVG bash thread. I like Stan Van Gundy. I think he's done a great job building the team and executing the Gameplan. However, to take the team to the next level, he needs to make one major adjustment. He needs to get out of his own head and learn to manage personalities, rather than go with the my way or the highway mantra.

Take a step back. Think back to your favorite bosses. Chances are they weren't the micro-managing hard ass that wanting things done a certain way. Sure, that coach or manager might've taught you a lot, but more likely than not you did not realize your own full potential until you worked for somebody who allowed for an open dialogue and was welcome to change. Stan isn't that 100% closed off boss, but he's not the receptive manager that the majority of NBA championship coaches are (Phil Jackson, Steve Kerr, Tyron Lue (AKA Lebron James), Doc Rivers, Greg Popovich), and Spo. Its been pretty clear throughout his entire career, Stan's been a "I'm the coach, we're doing what I say" kind of guy. That's fine when you have a team of rookies or you're a college coach. It however does not work when you have guys on $75+ million contracts. He didn't get along with Shaq. He didn't get along with Dwight. Wade has taken some swipes. 3 superstars is not a coincidence, its a problem. Some of you are going to come out and say well, these guys are divas, that you're supposed to listen to coach and you do what coach says. WRONG. An NBA coach should never be the end all. This is a professional work environment and the respect has to be mutual. I'm sure when your boss asks you to jump, your response is not always, how high?

Skepticism and constructive feedback is healthy and I think Stan has been missing this throughout his entire coaching career. The way Stan has been coaching is perfect to get the most out of role players (Baynes, Leuer, Tolliver, and Ish, Hilliard). It is however, off putting for rising stars and budding young players (Stanley Johnson and Andre Drummond). The latter needs a leash and needs to be able to provide input where they see it. How bad does Aaron have to play before you see Stan criticize him in a post game interview? How many defensive rotations does Hilliard have to miss before that comes up? Instead we hear about Andre's failure to rotate and Stanley's "coasting" during practice. Championship teams are built when players are allowed to be leaders, not when a coach is mapping out your every move.

I'd like to reiterate, this is not all Stan's fault. Maybe Stanley, Andre, or KCP aren't equipped to become leaders of this team, but I don't think they'll ever be given the proper chance to show it unless Stan starts to loosen his reigns and step off his pedestal ever so slightly. We can be the Hawks by maximizing the efforts and potential of our role players, but I think that's selling this team short. Stan the GM has done a great job. Stan the coach has been doing well, but he can be better.

I actually think his players respect him and seem to all be happy. He's hard on them but that just shows he takes his job seriously and is not just in it for the money.

I totally agree with the OP. His inconsistency and kid gloves with role players vs his tough discipline for star talent is harmful. At least be consistent with both. Be tough, then relax. Don't be overbearing.

Pattern recognition says SVG always has management problems with talented players. A few weeks ago, he openly regretted how he did not use JJ Reddick when he had him. He micromanages his best talent in an unhealthy way. Except pgs. Pgs always flourish under SVG.

vic wrote:I totally agree with the OP. His inconsistency and kid gloves with role players vs his tough discipline for star talent is harmful. At least be consistent with both. Be tough, then relax. Don't be overbearing.

when the role players are hard-working and disciplined there is little reason to give them tough discipline.

i also think sacramento is the perfect example for why you don't let your immature star continue to be immature.

I think it's very telling how highly SVG's former players speak of him, he really is a player's coach first and foremost. He doesn't criticize guys like Hilliard + Baynes for their play because when they do play poorly, its not an effort issue. Baynes for one has limited athleticism and skill, he always brings 100% but as a back up in the best basketball league in the world effort alone isn't enough.

That isn't to say he can't improve in terms of managing players, but It seems pretty clear that his treatment of player has less to do with whether they are a role player or focal point of the team and more to do with their professionalism and effort. I don't recall him ever giving Harris, Morris or KCP a hard time.

We tend to focus on the game and post game diatribe... we miss out on the team building & positive discussions.
Pop has a similar front.

ComboGuardCity wrote:I'd like to preface and say this isn't a SVG bash thread. I like Stan Van Gundy. I think he's done a great job building the team and executing the Gameplan. However, to take the team to the next level, he needs to make one major adjustment. He needs to get out of his own head and learn to manage personalities, rather than go with the my way or the highway mantra.

Take a step back. Think back to your favorite bosses. Chances are they weren't the micro-managing hard ass that wanting things done a certain way. Sure, that coach or manager might've taught you a lot, but more likely than not you did not realize your own full potential until you worked for somebody who allowed for an open dialogue and was welcome to change. Stan isn't that 100% closed off boss, but he's not the receptive manager that the majority of NBA championship coaches are (Phil Jackson, Steve Kerr, Tyron Lue (AKA Lebron James), Doc Rivers, Greg Popovich), and Spo. Its been pretty clear throughout his entire career, Stan's been a "I'm the coach, we're doing what I say" kind of guy. That's fine when you have a team of rookies or you're a college coach. It however does not work when you have guys on $75+ million contracts. He didn't get along with Shaq. He didn't get along with Dwight. Wade has taken some swipes. 3 superstars is not a coincidence, its a problem. Some of you are going to come out and say well, these guys are divas, that you're supposed to listen to coach and you do what coach says. WRONG. An NBA coach should never be the end all. This is a professional work environment and the respect has to be mutual. I'm sure when your boss asks you to jump, your response is not always, how high?

Skepticism and constructive feedback is healthy and I think Stan has been missing this throughout his entire coaching career. The way Stan has been coaching is perfect to get the most out of role players (Baynes, Leuer, Tolliver, and Ish, Hilliard). It is however, off putting for rising stars and budding young players (Stanley Johnson and Andre Drummond). The latter needs a leash and needs to be able to provide input where they see it. How bad does Aaron have to play before you see Stan criticize him in a post game interview? How many defensive rotations does Hilliard have to miss before that comes up? Instead we hear about Andre's failure to rotate and Stanley's "coasting" during practice. Championship teams are built when players are allowed to be leaders, not when a coach is mapping out your every move.

I'd like to reiterate, this is not all Stan's fault. Maybe Stanley, Andre, or KCP aren't equipped to become leaders of this team, but I don't think they'll ever be given the proper chance to show it unless Stan starts to loosen his reigns and step off his pedestal ever so slightly. We can be the Hawks by maximizing the efforts and potential of our role players, but I think that's selling this team short. Stan the GM has done a great job. Stan the coach has been doing well, but he can be better.

Ummm would you say Pop should lighten up?

Cause if the answer is no then WTF?

Sent from my SM-J110F using RealGM mobile app

ComboGuardCity wrote:I'd like to preface and say this isn't a SVG bash thread. I like Stan Van Gundy. I think he's done a great job building the team and executing the Gameplan. However, to take the team to the next level, he needs to make one major adjustment. He needs to get out of his own head and learn to manage personalities, rather than go with the my way or the highway mantra.

Take a step back. Think back to your favorite bosses. Chances are they weren't the micro-managing hard ass that wanting things done a certain way. Sure, that coach or manager might've taught you a lot, but more likely than not you did not realize your own full potential until you worked for somebody who allowed for an open dialogue and was welcome to change. Stan isn't that 100% closed off boss, but he's not the receptive manager that the majority of NBA championship coaches are (Phil Jackson, Steve Kerr, Tyron Lue (AKA Lebron James), Doc Rivers, Greg Popovich), and Spo. Its been pretty clear throughout his entire career, Stan's been a "I'm the coach, we're doing what I say" kind of guy. That's fine when you have a team of rookies or you're a college coach. It however does not work when you have guys on $75+ million contracts.

Its one thing to make a lot of money, its one thing to make a lot of money because your a good basketball player. RJ and Dre need SVG as much as he needs them.

I am almost absolutely sure that SVG is a players coach and has a open door policy, as well as very straight forward as stated several times by different players. Also your forgetting how young our roster is so while yes they are making a lot of money, they obviously still don't know what it takes to consistently win in this league. I mean as a GM he's provided the players with full access to masseuses , shrinks , sleeping coaches, shooting coaches etc. SVG is probably more in tune with what is going on with his players than most coaches.

In other words , i don't think there is any evidence that SVG isn't a players coach or a good people manager.

He didn't get along with Shaq. He didn't get along with Dwight. Wade has taken some swipes. 3 superstars is not a coincidence, its a problem. Some of you are going to come out and say well, these guys are divas, that you're supposed to listen to coach and you do what coach says. WRONG. An NBA coach should never be the end all. This is a professional work environment and the respect has to be mutual. I'm sure when your boss asks you to jump, your response is not always, how high?

I can definitely see your point here in that SVG seems to want perfection in a imperfect game. and when you have dominant superstars like those players mentioned, they typically carry a team above and beyond a coaches game plan or scheme. So when coach gets mad at them for one poor possession , it can get nervy. The only thing i can respond with is that SVG has mentioned he has learned things from his previous stints and seems to have hired assistant coaches around him that are more "player oriented" and has mentioned several times he's made adjustments based on his assistant coaches suggestions.

Also Shaq and Dwight take swipes at everyone and realistically is only a problem when teams are losing. just to be real.

Skepticism and constructive feedback is healthy and I think Stan has been missing this throughout his entire coaching career. The way Stan has been coaching is perfect to get the most out of role players (Baynes, Leuer, Tolliver, and Ish, Hilliard). It is however, off putting for rising stars and budding young players (Stanley Johnson and Andre Drummond). The latter needs a leash and needs to be able to provide input where they see it. How bad does Aaron have to play before you see Stan criticize him in a post game interview? How many defensive rotations does Hilliard have to miss before that comes up? Instead we hear about Andre's failure to rotate and Stanley's "coasting" during practice. Championship teams are built when players are allowed to be leaders, not when a coach is mapping out your every move.

I would agree with your point except that just because Dre's paid superstar money does not mean he's a superstar anywhere. His development on both sides of the ball and continued production are very much a product of SVG the GM and Coach both on and off the court. In other words, its one thing if SVG has to manage Boogie's personality because Boogie going to get his and don't need no body,however with Dre, SVG has to almost manage him on a per game basis to come out with energy, focus etc. A coach should never have to do that to his highest paid player but its a different era and honestly the more we discuss this and development, AGE really is becoming one of the bigger factors in terms of success.

As far Hilliard, he's been possibly a net 0 if not + for us offensively. SJ other than last game has been on more bad than good and offensively been horrid. Also mind you most questions from reporters aren't about Darrun Hilliard and SVG is on the record saying that SJ being a productive player is a large factor in our success. Also SVG seems to be trying to teach them how to develop into leaders because none of them are natural leaders and that starts with setting the the example. In reality , real leaders don't need coaches permission to lead and neither Dre nor SJ has shown the maturity to have that benefit of the doubt.

I'd like to reiterate, this is not all Stan's fault. Maybe Stanley, Andre, or KCP aren't equipped to become leaders of this team, but I don't think they'll ever be given the proper chance to show it unless Stan starts to loosen his reigns and step off his pedestal ever so slightly. We can be the Hawks by maximizing the efforts and potential of our role players, but I think that's selling this team short. Stan the GM has done a great job. Stan the coach has been doing well, but he can be better.

I get what your saying but i disagree. I think Leading a team starts by doing it on the court, by being the best player on and off the court and on either side of the ball. To me SVG seems to be reiterating that point constantly/repeatedly.


I do think though that SVG's personality can wear thin on certain ppl or players and that it all boils down to whether the team is winning or not.

ComboGuardCity wrote:Take a step back. Think back to your favorite bosses. Chances are they weren't the micro-managing hard ass that wanting things done a certain way. Sure, that coach or manager might've taught you a lot, but more likely than not you did not realize your own full potential until you worked for somebody who allowed for an open dialogue and was welcome to change.

I currently work for a micro-managing hard ass in which every single thing is his way or the highway and I don't make millions of dollars. They do. Either they accept it and learn from SVG or flip burgers.

SVG tends to push people who have the most potential the hardest. This is how players like Gortat, Ryan Anderson, Jameer Nelson, JJ Reddick etc went from nobodies that hardly played in their early years to legit NBA starters and players like Dwight Howard became a superstar. And, they all credit Stan Van Gundy.

I agree with Combo.

If the players can't handle a coach getting on them or bashing them then I don't want that player.

Any sport I was ever in the coach wasn't that noticeable except in practices for the most part. In games when it cam down to the end or if someone was getting out of hand. When games started we usually just played and went how the game went. We haven't had much practice time. I know way different levels, but you would think NBA players could handle criticism and bringing it every night without needing a coach to get them up for it. We are young tho, not really a excuse. It might just be the reality. Missing KCP against 6ers was huge, he is the guy that bring the effort every night and teammates feed off that. Still no excuse not to beat 6ers.

I'm not worried about this team or the coach tho.

joedumars1 wrote:If the players can't handle a coach getting on them or bashing them then I don't want that player.

Any sport I was ever in the coach wasn't that noticeable except in practices for the most part. In games when it cam down to the end or if someone was getting out of hand. When games started we usually just played and went how the game went. We haven't had much practice time. I know way different levels, but you would think NBA players could handle criticism and bringing it every night without needing a coach to get them up for it. We are young tho, not really a excuse. It might just be the reality. Missing KCP against 6ers was huge, he is the guy that bring the effort every night and teammates feed off that. Still no excuse not to beat 6ers.

I'm not worried about this team or the coach tho.

I'm pretty much in agreement with this post other than I'd soft peddle it a little more.

SVG isn't particularly hard on players that I can see. He'll rarely call a player out individually after a game. It's usually a team directed negative comment, and other than dismiss the mitigating affect of some players performance in evaluating a game doesn't make it about a player. If he's critical it's usually about what the team didn't do.

SVG has the track record, and the endorsement of players who figured out that he has their best interest at heart. Reddick is one, and SJ might be well served by taking this example. It's not all SJ's fault though, as the addition of Leuer has tightened available F minutes, and SJ hasn't played to SG all that well so far this year. It's not yet disaster when you're talking about a 20 YO 2nd year player.

I agree about KCP.

Pharaoh wrote:

ComboGuardCity wrote:I'd like to preface and say this isn't a SVG bash thread. I like Stan Van Gundy. I think he's done a great job building the team and executing the Gameplan. However, to take the team to the next level, he needs to make one major adjustment. He needs to get out of his own head and learn to manage personalities, rather than go with the my way or the highway mantra.

Take a step back. Think back to your favorite bosses. Chances are they weren't the micro-managing hard ass that wanting things done a certain way. Sure, that coach or manager might've taught you a lot, but more likely than not you did not realize your own full potential until you worked for somebody who allowed for an open dialogue and was welcome to change. Stan isn't that 100% closed off boss, but he's not the receptive manager that the majority of NBA championship coaches are (Phil Jackson, Steve Kerr, Tyron Lue (AKA Lebron James), Doc Rivers, Greg Popovich), and Spo. Its been pretty clear throughout his entire career, Stan's been a "I'm the coach, we're doing what I say" kind of guy. That's fine when you have a team of rookies or you're a college coach. It however does not work when you have guys on $75+ million contracts. He didn't get along with Shaq. He didn't get along with Dwight. Wade has taken some swipes. 3 superstars is not a coincidence, its a problem. Some of you are going to come out and say well, these guys are divas, that you're supposed to listen to coach and you do what coach says. WRONG. An NBA coach should never be the end all. This is a professional work environment and the respect has to be mutual. I'm sure when your boss asks you to jump, your response is not always, how high?

Skepticism and constructive feedback is healthy and I think Stan has been missing this throughout his entire coaching career. The way Stan has been coaching is perfect to get the most out of role players (Baynes, Leuer, Tolliver, and Ish, Hilliard). It is however, off putting for rising stars and budding young players (Stanley Johnson and Andre Drummond). The latter needs a leash and needs to be able to provide input where they see it. How bad does Aaron have to play before you see Stan criticize him in a post game interview? How many defensive rotations does Hilliard have to miss before that comes up? Instead we hear about Andre's failure to rotate and Stanley's "coasting" during practice. Championship teams are built when players are allowed to be leaders, not when a coach is mapping out your every move.

I'd like to reiterate, this is not all Stan's fault. Maybe Stanley, Andre, or KCP aren't equipped to become leaders of this team, but I don't think they'll ever be given the proper chance to show it unless Stan starts to loosen his reigns and step off his pedestal ever so slightly. We can be the Hawks by maximizing the efforts and potential of our role players, but I think that's selling this team short. Stan the GM has done a great job. Stan the coach has been doing well, but he can be better.

Ummm would you say Pop should lighten up?

Cause if the answer is no then WTF?

Sent from my SM-J110F using RealGM mobile app

Pop has never been blasted by NBA superstars. He also has rings to backup his coaching style. Like I said in my OP. There is a fine line. Pop rips his team's effort, but he does it to EVERY SINGLE PLAYER. Stan calls out certain players in his post games all too often. Stan will never rip role players even if they're putting up bad shots and missing assignments. Hilliard has been one of the worst defensive players in the league since he started getting minutes.

BadMofoPimp wrote:

ComboGuardCity wrote:Take a step back. Think back to your favorite bosses. Chances are they weren't the micro-managing hard ass that wanting things done a certain way. Sure, that coach or manager might've taught you a lot, but more likely than not you did not realize your own full potential until you worked for somebody who allowed for an open dialogue and was welcome to change.

I currently work for a micro-managing hard ass in which every single thing is his way or the highway and I don't make millions of dollars. They do. Either they accept it and learn from SVG or flip burgers.

SVG tends to push people who have the most potential the hardest. This is how players like Gortat, Ryan Anderson, Jameer Nelson, JJ Reddick etc went from nobodies that hardly played in their early years to legit NBA starters and players like Dwight Howard became a superstar. And, they all credit Stan Van Gundy.

If they don't like it, they have the option to sign with another team for ANOTHER million dollar contract.

joedumars1 wrote:If the players can't handle a coach getting on them or bashing them then I don't want that player.

Any sport I was ever in the coach wasn't that noticeable except in practices for the most part. In games when it cam down to the end or if someone was getting out of hand. When games started we usually just played and went how the game went. We haven't had much practice time. I know way different levels, but you would think NBA players could handle criticism and bringing it every night without needing a coach to get them up for it. We are young tho, not really a excuse. It might just be the reality. Missing KCP against 6ers was huge, he is the guy that bring the effort every night and teammates feed off that. Still no excuse not to beat 6ers.

I'm not worried about this team or the coach tho.

The difference for us was AAU/High school wasn't our jobs. We had no other option if we didn't like our coach. These players are professionals. There is and should be a difference.

Blkbrd671 wrote:

ComboGuardCity wrote:I'd like to preface and say this isn't a SVG bash thread. I like Stan Van Gundy. I think he's done a great job building the team and executing the Gameplan. However, to take the team to the next level, he needs to make one major adjustment. He needs to get out of his own head and learn to manage personalities, rather than go with the my way or the highway mantra.

Take a step back. Think back to your favorite bosses. Chances are they weren't the micro-managing hard ass that wanting things done a certain way. Sure, that coach or manager might've taught you a lot, but more likely than not you did not realize your own full potential until you worked for somebody who allowed for an open dialogue and was welcome to change. Stan isn't that 100% closed off boss, but he's not the receptive manager that the majority of NBA championship coaches are (Phil Jackson, Steve Kerr, Tyron Lue (AKA Lebron James), Doc Rivers, Greg Popovich), and Spo. Its been pretty clear throughout his entire career, Stan's been a "I'm the coach, we're doing what I say" kind of guy. That's fine when you have a team of rookies or you're a college coach. It however does not work when you have guys on $75+ million contracts.

Its one thing to make a lot of money, its one thing to make a lot of money because your a good basketball player. RJ and Dre need SVG as much as he needs them.

I am almost absolutely sure that SVG is a players coach and has a open door policy, as well as very straight forward as stated several times by different players. Also your forgetting how young our roster is so while yes they are making a lot of money, they obviously still don't know what it takes to consistently win in this league. I mean as a GM he's provided the players with full access to masseuses , shrinks , sleeping coaches, shooting coaches etc. SVG is probably more in tune with what is going on with his players than most coaches.

In other words , i don't think there is any evidence that SVG isn't a players coach or a good people manager.

He didn't get along with Shaq. He didn't get along with Dwight. Wade has taken some swipes. 3 superstars is not a coincidence, its a problem. Some of you are going to come out and say well, these guys are divas, that you're supposed to listen to coach and you do what coach says. WRONG. An NBA coach should never be the end all. This is a professional work environment and the respect has to be mutual. I'm sure when your boss asks you to jump, your response is not always, how high?

I can definitely see your point here in that SVG seems to want perfection in a imperfect game. and when you have dominant superstars like those players mentioned, they typically carry a team above and beyond a coaches game plan or scheme. So when coach gets mad at them for one poor possession , it can get nervy. The only thing i can respond with is that SVG has mentioned he has learned things from his previous stints and seems to have hired assistant coaches around him that are more "player oriented" and has mentioned several times he's made adjustments based on his assistant coaches suggestions.

Also Shaq and Dwight take swipes at everyone and realistically is only a problem when teams are losing. just to be real.

Skepticism and constructive feedback is healthy and I think Stan has been missing this throughout his entire coaching career. The way Stan has been coaching is perfect to get the most out of role players (Baynes, Leuer, Tolliver, and Ish, Hilliard). It is however, off putting for rising stars and budding young players (Stanley Johnson and Andre Drummond). The latter needs a leash and needs to be able to provide input where they see it. How bad does Aaron have to play before you see Stan criticize him in a post game interview? How many defensive rotations does Hilliard have to miss before that comes up? Instead we hear about Andre's failure to rotate and Stanley's "coasting" during practice. Championship teams are built when players are allowed to be leaders, not when a coach is mapping out your every move.

I would agree with your point except that just because Dre's paid superstar money does not mean he's a superstar anywhere. His development on both sides of the ball and continued production are very much a product of SVG the GM and Coach both on and off the court. In other words, its one thing if SVG has to manage Boogie's personality because Boogie going to get his and don't need no body,however with Dre, SVG has to almost manage him on a per game basis to come out with energy, focus etc. A coach should never have to do that to his highest paid player but its a different era and honestly the more we discuss this and development, AGE really is becoming one of the bigger factors in terms of success.

As far Hilliard, he's been possibly a net 0 if not + for us offensively. SJ other than last game has been on more bad than good and offensively been horrid. Also mind you most questions from reporters aren't about Darrun Hilliard and SVG is on the record saying that SJ being a productive player is a large factor in our success. Also SVG seems to be trying to teach them how to develop into leaders because none of them are natural leaders and that starts with setting the the example. In reality , real leaders don't need coaches permission to lead and neither Dre nor SJ has shown the maturity to have that benefit of the doubt.

I'd like to reiterate, this is not all Stan's fault. Maybe Stanley, Andre, or KCP aren't equipped to become leaders of this team, but I don't think they'll ever be given the proper chance to show it unless Stan starts to loosen his reigns and step off his pedestal ever so slightly. We can be the Hawks by maximizing the efforts and potential of our role players, but I think that's selling this team short. Stan the GM has done a great job. Stan the coach has been doing well, but he can be better.

I get what your saying but i disagree. I think Leading a team starts by doing it on the court, by being the best player on and off the court and on either side of the ball. To me SVG seems to be reiterating that point constantly/repeatedly.


I do think though that SVG's personality can wear thin on certain ppl or players and that it all boils down to whether the team is winning or not.

As always I agree with you. At this point it's OK. It's when we take those next steps and we're a contender and Stan is still harping on our (now all star core) it'll wear thin on the team and ultimately blow up in his face.

ComboGuardCity wrote:

joedumars1 wrote:If the players can't handle a coach getting on them or bashing them then I don't want that player.

Any sport I was ever in the coach wasn't that noticeable except in practices for the most part. In games when it cam down to the end or if someone was getting out of hand. When games started we usually just played and went how the game went. We haven't had much practice time. I know way different levels, but you would think NBA players could handle criticism and bringing it every night without needing a coach to get them up for it. We are young tho, not really a excuse. It might just be the reality. Missing KCP against 6ers was huge, he is the guy that bring the effort every night and teammates feed off that. Still no excuse not to beat 6ers.

I'm not worried about this team or the coach tho.

The difference for us was AAU/High school wasn't our jobs. We had no other option if we didn't like our coach. These players are professionals. There is and should be a difference.

I agree there should be a difference. A player shouldn't want a me coach imo. If you want to be great you have to take the criticism and keep it moving.

A little on the superstars that questioned SVG, my thoughts anyway, lol.

Howard is a baby, plus a coward. That interview when Howard came up to SVG like everything was cool when SVG was telling the media how it actually was was funny. That's what I love about SVG is his honesty, he expect more from our star players than role player as he should. They just need to suck it up take what he's saying and try to apply it.

We never really know about the Shaq thing. SVG stepped down or got fired and Riley had them win the Chip. Pretty sure Shaq has been on record saying he didn't work that much he actually just used the talent god gave him. He could've been way better, he said i'm pretty sure. Some players can't do that and have to be coached and grow. Dre needs to grow if we ever want to get where I want us to be and hopefully Dre too. RJ too. If they're cool with being mediocre and around .500 cool. I guess us as fans and SVG should just accept it and see how that works out. I believe we are a lot better than a .500 team a 3-4 seed is what we should be. I know you're not bashing SVG, but just sitting back and not telling them what they did wrong or getting on them won't help imo. It would be cool if we had players on the court when others aren't giving energy to try to get them going by being a chearleader type kinda, like talking to them telling them to get going, telling nice shot/pass/block/steal. I'm not sure our players do that. Also not sure how far that would go with millionaires, but with young players think they'd appreciate it. I'm just rambling kinda, but I like how SVG does his job atm. His rotations at times can be a little iffy to me.

ComboGuardCity wrote:
As always I agree with you. At this point it's OK. It's when we take those next steps and we're a contender and Stan is still harping on our (now all star core) it'll wear thin on the team and ultimately blow up in his face.

Another thought that is much different than SVG's last tenures is that the majority of our players have either been acquired/targeted by SVG or drafted and have been under his development umbrella through their careers. Lets say 2 years from now our core become superstars, I would assume/hope there'd be a certain level of respect or understanding that they are where they are because of SVG? and that ultimately that trumps any annoying quirks or mishandling of roster that SVG commits.

This again assumes they are superstars and we are winning. If we start losing, and can't figure out why, i think at that point that is where SVG needs to be more of a people manager, and we'll have to see if he's learned from his previous stints.

ComboGuardCity wrote:

Pharaoh wrote:

ComboGuardCity wrote:I'd like to preface and say this isn't a SVG bash thread. I like Stan Van Gundy. I think he's done a great job building the team and executing the Gameplan. However, to take the team to the next level, he needs to make one major adjustment. He needs to get out of his own head and learn to manage personalities, rather than go with the my way or the highway mantra.

Take a step back. Think back to your favorite bosses. Chances are they weren't the micro-managing hard ass that wanting things done a certain way. Sure, that coach or manager might've taught you a lot, but more likely than not you did not realize your own full potential until you worked for somebody who allowed for an open dialogue and was welcome to change. Stan isn't that 100% closed off boss, but he's not the receptive manager that the majority of NBA championship coaches are (Phil Jackson, Steve Kerr, Tyron Lue (AKA Lebron James), Doc Rivers, Greg Popovich), and Spo. Its been pretty clear throughout his entire career, Stan's been a "I'm the coach, we're doing what I say" kind of guy. That's fine when you have a team of rookies or you're a college coach. It however does not work when you have guys on $75+ million contracts. He didn't get along with Shaq. He didn't get along with Dwight. Wade has taken some swipes. 3 superstars is not a coincidence, its a problem. Some of you are going to come out and say well, these guys are divas, that you're supposed to listen to coach and you do what coach says. WRONG. An NBA coach should never be the end all. This is a professional work environment and the respect has to be mutual. I'm sure when your boss asks you to jump, your response is not always, how high?

Skepticism and constructive feedback is healthy and I think Stan has been missing this throughout his entire coaching career. The way Stan has been coaching is perfect to get the most out of role players (Baynes, Leuer, Tolliver, and Ish, Hilliard). It is however, off putting for rising stars and budding young players (Stanley Johnson and Andre Drummond). The latter needs a leash and needs to be able to provide input where they see it. How bad does Aaron have to play before you see Stan criticize him in a post game interview? How many defensive rotations does Hilliard have to miss before that comes up? Instead we hear about Andre's failure to rotate and Stanley's "coasting" during practice. Championship teams are built when players are allowed to be leaders, not when a coach is mapping out your every move.

I'd like to reiterate, this is not all Stan's fault. Maybe Stanley, Andre, or KCP aren't equipped to become leaders of this team, but I don't think they'll ever be given the proper chance to show it unless Stan starts to loosen his reigns and step off his pedestal ever so slightly. We can be the Hawks by maximizing the efforts and potential of our role players, but I think that's selling this team short. Stan the GM has done a great job. Stan the coach has been doing well, but he can be better.

Ummm would you say Pop should lighten up?

Cause if the answer is no then WTF?

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Pop has never been blasted by NBA superstars. He also has rings to backup his coaching style. Like I said in my OP. There is a fine line. Pop rips his team's effort, but he does it to EVERY SINGLE PLAYER. Stan calls out certain players in his post games all too often. Stan will never rip role players even if they're putting up bad shots and missing assignments. Hilliard has been one of the worst defensive players in the league since he started getting minutes.

You have no idea what is said on the bus, plane, at practice, at film sessions, in the tunnel, in time outs, during shoot arounds etc

You're stating that IYO SVG calls out SOME players too often.

IMO he usually goes out of his way to keep individual negative comments in house

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Pharaoh makes a great point. None of us know what goes on behind the scenes, we only get a glimpse of the full picture. SVG was very fair in keeping whatever Stanley did to receive the suspension private.