There could be light at the end of the SVG tunnel..

[blueadams]

Point #1. The current blueprint for a non-major market (non-FA destination) nba team is the golden state warriors (pre-Durant, obviously).

Point #2. Andrew Bogut, Zaza Pachulia, etc. I think that Boban could legit be a legit starting center on a legit NBA championship-level team. I already think he's better than Dre. His BBall IQ is as good as I've ever seen in a big man, and on both ends of the court. He challenges so, so many shots with his length and IQ/positioning on defense. He has such amazing touch around the basket, and he's always open --- length + IQ/positioning. He can shoot FT's. He's got great, humble, character. He gets to most rebounds a foot above everyone else. He's probably never going to be able to play 30+ minutes a game, no matter what; so we'll always need another good big man. And that could be Dre -- he still has potential to be a good asset on a good team in this league. But 'Dre is definitely a tradeable asset.

Point #3. I really like Tobias as our 4. I like his attitude, I like his measurables, I like his skill-set; I like his game. And he's still a young, developing, improving player on a very upward trajectory. His outside shot is good enough for a 4, and like all things in his game, improving. His speed and athleticism is good enough, as a switching defender. He's got good length and toughness. Excellent ball-skills, passing, smarts. He's got a great drive game. And he's the kind of guy who really can take over a game.. and who'll never be out there costing you one. I really like Tobias as our 4.

Point #4. KCP. He's young and improving. He's good character-wise. He's a plus defender. He's a good enough outside shooter. He's also a guy who can take over a game. He's also a guy who'll never be out there costing you one. I like KCP as our starting 2 -- do what you have to to re-sign him.

Point #5. We need a Tobias/KCP-type at the 3. Guy needs to be a real-deal lights-out 3-pt shooter (40%-range). Guy needs to be a versatile, athletic, switchable, plus defender. Guy's not on the roster yet. Guy's out there and get-able somewhere.

Point #6. We need a star as our primary ball-handler ~ running the show on offense, off the court.. and defensively capable in this pg-crazy league. He's obviously not on the roster either.. and much harder to find. And acquiring him is our sole focus.

***

-Drummond. He's an asset we can part with. His value? We'll see.
-Stanley. He's a guy who legit has NBA star potential, IMO. He's a guy who's already a shut-down defender off the bench. And his offensive potential is most certainly there. And I'd really love to keep Stanley on our bench; and to have him develop here. But as things stand ---> he's not one of those two guys ^ that we need. He's not a 3pt shooter. He's not a primary ball-handling star. Could be either someday? But he's a guy with value, and whom I wouldn't be against including in the right deal.
-Marcus. He's not one of those two guys ^ either. Great contract (for now). Great player. Leader. And I would love having him on the bench. But again, he's not a guy I'd be opposed to including in the right deal.
-Ellenson. I really do like his potential as a stretch 4-5. I do. But another guy with some value whom I wouldn't mind including in the right deal.

-Reggie. With his contract. And this season. He probably doesn't have much trade value. I'd do everything I could to get rid of him, expecting to get little to nothing in return (and hoping not to have to take on a bad contract to rid ourselves of him). Maaaybe something could work out with someone who really likes him / has a nice 3 or pick for us. Absolute worst case.. if he'll accept the role in winner's manner, great backup point.
-Ish. Just given what's in the league, probably doesn't have much trade value. Nice backup point at a nice price for us worst case. Maybe he's got some trade value to someone. I certainly wouldn't mind moving him.

***

Our draft pick. Top 10-ish. Maybe we'll get lucky in the lotto and end up with something better?

Josh Jackson. Lonzo Ball. Markelle Fultz. De'Aaron Fox. I like those 4 guys -- in that order -- as our point guard. Find him first.. figure out the 3 and the bench/rotation later. We've got a top-10'ish pick (hopefully much better). We've got Dre and Stanley to include with it. We've got Reggie, Morris, Ish, Ellenson if anyone's interested. Turn that into one of those 4 guys. SVG. Turn that into one of those 4 guys. Figure out the rest after.

[princeofpalace]

Yes, Ive been on the trade Drummond bandwagon for years now. Boban isnt anything special though FWIW

[Moses ShamMoses]

Yes, Ive been on the trade Drummond bandwagon for years now. Boban isnt anything special though FWIW

He is 7'4 and 290...that is special but I get what you're saying. He's a backup center...not the second coming of Hakeem. SVG really needs to have 1 or more of Ellenson, Stanley Johnson, or whoever we draft this year turn into a star because this team has a low ceiling otherwise.

[Pharaoh]

What you've failed to address is the sheer number of playmakers GSW had at their disposal before they signed KD:

Bogut - good passer
Green - point forward
Iggy - point forward
Klay
Curry
Livingston

That's 6 dudes that could make the right play/pass at any given time

We lack playmakers!

We also lack the same calibre of shooters!

We will never progress until both those issues are addressed

Sent from my SM-J110F using RealGM mobile app

[bjones521]

What you've failed to address is the sheer number of playmakers GSW had at their disposal before they signed KD:

Bogut - good passer
Green - point forward
Iggy - point forward
Klay
Curry
Livingston

That's 6 dudes that could make the right play/pass at any given time

We lack playmakers!

We also lack the same calibre of shooters!

We will never progress until both those issues are addressed

Sent from my SM-J110F using RealGM mobile app

For this very reason why i wouldn't resign KCP

[Pharaoh]

What you've failed to address is the sheer number of playmakers GSW had at their disposal before they signed KD:

Bogut - good passer
Green - point forward
Iggy - point forward
Klay
Curry
Livingston

That's 6 dudes that could make the right play/pass at any given time

We lack playmakers!

We also lack the same calibre of shooters!

We will never progress until both those issues are addressed

Sent from my SM-J110F using RealGM mobile app

For this very reason why i wouldn't resign KCP

Then you need to sign & trade him

Sent from my SM-J110F using RealGM mobile app

[In SVG We Trust]

What you've failed to address is the sheer number of playmakers GSW had at their disposal before they signed KD:

Bogut - good passer
Green - point forward
Iggy - point forward
Klay
Curry
Livingston

That's 6 dudes that could make the right play/pass at any given time

We lack playmakers!

We also lack the same calibre of shooters!

We will never progress until both those issues are addressed

Sent from my SM-J110F using RealGM mobile app

For this very reason why i wouldn't resign KCP

That's a totally nonsense man.

[dVs33]

What you've failed to address is the sheer number of playmakers GSW had at their disposal before they signed KD:

Bogut - good passer
Green - point forward
Iggy - point forward
Klay
Curry
Livingston

That's 6 dudes that could make the right play/pass at any given time

We lack playmakers!

We also lack the same calibre of shooters!

We will never progress until both those issues are addressed

Sent from my SM-J110F using RealGM mobile app

This x1000
We lack playmakers big time and vets. We need that desperately imo. Reggie isn't a leader and Dre is a child. We need guys to take charge of the team and play the " right way"

[ImHeisenberg]

I stopped reading after OP used "legit" twice in the same sentence, and Boban starting on a championship team.

Also, San Francisco is a non free agent destination? I mean, they've only been able to wrangle in scrubs like Durant, Igoudala, and Baron Davis over the last decade. Only all NBA players and a top 5 in the league.

Basically, this whole diatribe is dead wrong. Although, it doesn't surprise, considering the source.

[vic]

What you've failed to address is the sheer number of playmakers GSW had at their disposal before they signed KD:

Bogut - good passer
Green - point forward
Iggy - point forward
Klay
Curry
Livingston

That's 6 dudes that could make the right play/pass at any given time

We lack playmakers!

We also lack the same calibre of shooters!

We will never progress until both those issues are addressed

Sent from my SM-J110F using RealGM mobile app

Exactly. SVG is a control freak coach wh wants to call every play. He doesn't realize the value of having a natural leader/ playmaker on the floor.

Both KCP and SJ are high energy, plus defensive, and playmakers.
SVG wastes 50 games running everything thru RJ and wastes most every game being bailed out by ISO Morris. /season.

Add 1 more shooter, play Henry, bench Morris for SJ and this is a totally different team.

[JRK]

Total destruction the only solution.

This is the reality now. Detroit has a bunch of guys who lack character, determination, toughness. The team has no chemistry together and they have a problem with roster structure - what to say when your franchise player can't play in the 4th, hit free throws or finish the game.

Only players that I like in Detroit current roster are Tobias Harris and KCP. Too bad Stanley Johnson or Ellenson didn't play more this season.

Where is Detroit Basketball? Where is Detroit defense, grind, swag?
Hard work pays off, but the players don't remember that.

Don't laugh now - but why didn't SVG pursue guys like Lance Stephenson, James Johnson, Matt Barnes? Hezonja, Nurkić? DMC?
The league needs Detroit Bad Boys. Not Detroit version of GSW.

[The Penguin]

I stopped reading after OP used "legit" twice in the same sentence, and Boban starting on a championship team.

Also, San Francisco is a non free agent destination? I mean, they've only been able to wrangle in scrubs like Durant, Igoudala, and Baron Davis over the last decade. Only all NBA players and a top 5 in the league.

Basically, this whole diatribe is dead wrong. Although, it doesn't surprise, considering the source.

Exactly. Calling the Warriors a non-major market non-FA destination team shows this premise is out of touch.


Bottomline, regardless of your team being in Cleveland, San Antonio, Oklahoma City, Los Angeles or New York, you need 1 transcendent talent to even entertain the thought of a title, but the way Cleveland and the Warriors have upped it you pretty much need 2 (and fantastic role players / borderline all NBA talent around them). But more to the point, Cleveland, Golden State, San Antonio etc landed elite talent in the draft to build their team around.

It simply isn't happening here with Gores / Stan's approach to roster building, we aren't willing to entertain trying to build a team at the top of the draft and we will never land a premier FA. Sure, we might luck into a Kwahi or Paul George in the early teens, but unless that happens quick and Dre gets a lobotomy, we are what we are, a ~.500 team that may luck into a 5-7 seed some year and pull a surprise playoff upset and look to be that for the foreseeable future.

[ElectricMayhem]

Boban Marjanovic has played 20+ minutes precisely two times this year. In those two games:
Game 1 vs. Charlotte: 22 minutes, 15 points 19 rebounds +12
Game 2 vs. Houston: 27.5 minutes, 27 points 12 rebounds +10

He has one more game of 15+ minutes.
Vs. Golden State: 16 minutes, 13 points 11 rebounds -5

Boban has shown up EVERY time his number has been called. Teams could game plan for him and take advantage of him if he plays regularly? So what? They already do that with Drummond. At least put him out there and see how he adjusts. But to not have given him an opportunity the entire year is one of the things I do blame SVG for. His three biggest mistakes this year were how he dealt with RJ, SJ, and Boban.

[Pharaoh]

Total destruction the only solution.

This is the reality now. Detroit has a bunch of guys who lack character, determination, toughness. The team has no chemistry together and they have a problem with roster structure - what to say when your franchise player can't play in the 4th, hit free throws or finish the game.

Only players that I like in Detroit current roster are Tobias Harris and KCP. Too bad Stanley Johnson or Ellenson didn't play more this season.

Where is Detroit Basketball? Where is Detroit defense, grind, swag?
Hard work pays off, but the players don't remember that.

Don't laugh now - but why didn't SVG pursue guys like Lance Stephenson, James Johnson, Matt Barnes? Hezonja, Nurkić? DMC?
The league needs Detroit Bad Boys. Not Detroit version of GSW.

You are aware that you can't have a Bad Boy like team anymore right? The league has changed the rules on D to prevent the low scoring grinders

Of the guys you mentioned only Cousins & Johnson were worth pursuing.

We don't lack character, determination or toughness! Jon Boy, Mook, Harris, SJ, KCP, Ish, Baynes bring all those attributes

Sent from my SM-J110F using RealGM mobile app

[JRK]

Total destruction the only solution.

This is the reality now. Detroit has a bunch of guys who lack character, determination, toughness. The team has no chemistry together and they have a problem with roster structure - what to say when your franchise player can't play in the 4th, hit free throws or finish the game.

Only players that I like in Detroit current roster are Tobias Harris and KCP. Too bad Stanley Johnson or Ellenson didn't play more this season.

Where is Detroit Basketball? Where is Detroit defense, grind, swag?
Hard work pays off, but the players don't remember that.

Don't laugh now - but why didn't SVG pursue guys like Lance Stephenson, James Johnson, Matt Barnes? Hezonja, Nurkić? DMC?
The league needs Detroit Bad Boys. Not Detroit version of GSW.

You are aware that you can't have a Bad Boy like team anymore right? The league has changed the rules on D to prevent the low scoring grinders

Of the guys you mentioned only Cousins & Johnson were worth pursuing.

We don't lack character, determination or toughness! Jon Boy, Mook, Harris, SJ, KCP, Ish, Baynes bring all those attributes

Sent from my SM-J110F using RealGM mobile app

I know the league is soft now. I do realize that you can't have Motor City Bad Boys from the late '80s and early '90s but to adapt and make something similar in 2017+ is possible. Detroit 2004 team is also a model to look at.

Defense wins championships - so the focus should be on the defensive end. I like the way the Jazz or the Grizzlies play defense now. Toughness, grind, grit. Is it too much to ask for that or at least to wish for it.

Why didn't Detroit go all in for DMC? Better to have him and his +/- than this current lazy player Detroit calls franchise center.
Why Lance Stephenson and James Johnson? They play hard and they were worth pursuing.

Of all players only Harris and KCP are cool. Detroit needs to keep them, the rest can go.

[ImHeisenberg]

Sure, we might luck into a Kwahi or Paul George in the early teens

Even then, do you believe Paul George or Leonard would have developed into who they are if they landed in Detroit? It's not as if we have a solid track record of developing our in house talent. It's probably not coincidence that we've traded players to other teams and they've flourished- either in the team finding a role for them that fits (Jerebko, Amir Johnson) or the team actually developed them and they became really talented players (Middleton, Afflalo). I have no doubt that if we sent Stanley Johnson to a team that develops youth, he'd become a real NBA talent.

There's this culture of "we want success now!" in Detroit that I think has hampered this franchise so much. Dumars and SVG refused to bottom out, and are settling for middling team with no upside and bad contracts. They thought bucking NBA trends was the smart thing to do, but they ultimately out-thought themselves.

The city of Detroit sucks. No player is ever going to have a desire to play here based on it's geographic or economical location. The only way we can attract a top tier FA if luring them with another one. The only likely way we ever get one if by finally hitting in the lottery.

That said, we won't achieve that on our current course.

Here's some fun reading on Khris Middleton, it's not like anyone is writing any articles about how good the Pistons players
https://theringer.com/nba-milwaukee-bucks-khris-middleton-secretly-great-23e6de47dc96

[Pharaoh]

Total destruction the only solution.

This is the reality now. Detroit has a bunch of guys who lack character, determination, toughness. The team has no chemistry together and they have a problem with roster structure - what to say when your franchise player can't play in the 4th, hit free throws or finish the game.

Only players that I like in Detroit current roster are Tobias Harris and KCP. Too bad Stanley Johnson or Ellenson didn't play more this season.

Where is Detroit Basketball? Where is Detroit defense, grind, swag?
Hard work pays off, but the players don't remember that.

Don't laugh now - but why didn't SVG pursue guys like Lance Stephenson, James Johnson, Matt Barnes? Hezonja, Nurkić? DMC?
The league needs Detroit Bad Boys. Not Detroit version of GSW.

You are aware that you can't have a Bad Boy like team anymore right? The league has changed the rules on D to prevent the low scoring grinders

Of the guys you mentioned only Cousins & Johnson were worth pursuing.

We don't lack character, determination or toughness! Jon Boy, Mook, Harris, SJ, KCP, Ish, Baynes bring all those attributes

Sent from my SM-J110F using RealGM mobile app

I know the league is soft now. I do realize that you can't have Motor City Bad Boys from the late '80s and early '90s but to adapt and make something similar in 2017+ is possible. Detroit 2004 team is also a model to look at.

Defense wins championships - so the focus should be on the defensive end. I like the way the Jazz or the Grizzlies play defense now. Toughness, grind, grit. Is it too much to ask for that or at least to wish for it.

Why didn't Detroit go all in for DMC? Better to have him and his +/- than this current lazy player Detroit calls franchise center.
Why Lance Stephenson and James Johnson? They play hard and they were worth pursuing.

Of all players only Harris and KCP are cool. Detroit needs to keep them, the rest can go.

There were stages of this season where we were above average defensively vs the league...top 12 at one stage IIRC

The problem is our personnel doesn't mesh to form one cohesive unit on either end of the floor!

We should have given our pick & RJ for Rubio...or Drummond & our pick for Cousins and then RJ to Orlando for DJ & Green.

Either/or both deals would have changed this team from passive to aggressive...

IMO the failure to land Rubio is the biggest mistake this season. He would have made an epic difference on both ends

Sent from my SM-J110F using RealGM mobile app

[DBC10]

Sure, we might luck into a Kwahi or Paul George in the early teens

Even then, do you believe Paul George or Leonard would have developed into who they are if they landed in Detroit? It's not as if we have a solid track record of developing our in house talent. It's probably not coincidence that we've traded players to other teams and they've flourished- either in the team finding a role for them that fits (Jerebko, Amir Johnson) or the team actually developed them and they became really talented players (Middleton, Afflalo). I have no doubt that if we sent Stanley Johnson to a team that develops youth, he'd become a real NBA talent.

There's this culture of "we want success now!" in Detroit that I think has hampered this franchise so much. Dumars and SVG refused to bottom out, and are settling for middling team with no upside and bad contracts. They thought bucking NBA trends was the smart thing to do, but they ultimately out-thought themselves.

The city of Detroit sucks. No player is ever going to have a desire to play here based on it's geographic or economical location. The only way we can attract a top tier FA if luring them with another one. The only likely way we ever get one if by finally hitting in the lottery.

That said, we won't achieve that on our current course.

Here's some fun reading on Khris Middleton, it's not like anyone is writing any articles about how good the Pistons players
https://theringer.com/nba-milwaukee-bucks-khris-middleton-secretly-great-23e6de47dc96

This post is so correct. Especially about our culture of impulsiveness and stubbornness of pursuing short term gains. The impulsiveness lead to signing of Gordon, CV, and Josh Smith. Stubbornness to avoid tanking at all costs and not even attempting to bottom out at least once lead to giving max deals to pseudo-allstars in Drummond and RJ. Everything else sort of is in the middle. Everyone is zigging while this franchise has been zagging for so long and it hasn't really paid dividends at all minus that one fringe playoff courtesy sweep from the Cavs. But hey, at least we're not as bad as the Nets or Sixers right? We're lightyears ahead of them! /sarcasm

[russkopp]

I stopped reading after OP used "legit" twice in the same sentence, and Boban starting on a championship team.

Also, San Francisco is a non free agent destination? I mean, they've only been able to wrangle in scrubs like Durant, Igoudala, and Baron Davis over the last decade. Only all NBA players and a top 5 in the league.

Basically, this whole diatribe is dead wrong. Although, it doesn't surprise, considering the source.

I came here to say the same thing. San Fransisco is a huge draw for anyone that enjoys 76 and sunny 350 days out of the year...

Detroit is cold, crappy (although downtown is turning around), we have no vets, no young stars and a coach who will scream/curse you out for not hustling then throw Dre and Reggie out to sleep walk on the court.

I am done. Thank you.

[JRK]

You are aware that you can't have a Bad Boy like team anymore right? The league has changed the rules on D to prevent the low scoring grinders

Of the guys you mentioned only Cousins & Johnson were worth pursuing.

We don't lack character, determination or toughness! Jon Boy, Mook, Harris, SJ, KCP, Ish, Baynes bring all those attributes

Sent from my SM-J110F using RealGM mobile app

I know the league is soft now. I do realize that you can't have Motor City Bad Boys from the late '80s and early '90s but to adapt and make something similar in 2017+ is possible. Detroit 2004 team is also a model to look at.

Defense wins championships - so the focus should be on the defensive end. I like the way the Jazz or the Grizzlies play defense now. Toughness, grind, grit. Is it too much to ask for that or at least to wish for it.

Why didn't Detroit go all in for DMC? Better to have him and his +/- than this current lazy player Detroit calls franchise center.
Why Lance Stephenson and James Johnson? They play hard and they were worth pursuing.

Of all players only Harris and KCP are cool. Detroit needs to keep them, the rest can go.

There were stages of this season where we were above average defensively vs the league...top 12 at one stage IIRC

The problem is our personnel doesn't mesh to form one cohesive unit on either end of the floor!

We should have given our pick & RJ for Rubio...or Drummond & our pick for Cousins and then RJ to Orlando for DJ & Green.

Either/or both deals would have changed this team from passive to aggressive...

IMO the failure to land Rubio is the biggest mistake this season. He would have made an epic difference on both ends

Sent from my SM-J110F using RealGM mobile app

IMO - biggest mistake this season was not pursuing DMC harder. Sacto are a joke organization and it would be possible easy.

DeMarcus Cousins is a real franchise center and TOP 3 in the league.