Your Final Evaluation of KCP

Post #1 » by **Snakebites** » Sat Apr 15, 2017 7:29 pm

Now that all of the data we're going to get is in, how do you feel about signing KCP to what he will likely demand in the offseason. We'll operate on the assumption that at least one team will offer him a maximum contract, forcing us to either match said money or let him walk.

The good:

His defense according to the eye test hasn't regressed. He's still a solid defensive player who even has some versatiltiy as we've seen with him guarding point guards at times.

His 3 point shooting has improved. 35% still isn't Reggie Miller-esque by any stretch of the imaginition, but its his best mark in his career to date. You can rely on him to be a solid outside threat...at least sometimes.

The bad:

Advanced stats don't like him much. His TS% hasn't improved one iota over last season, when everyone will agree he left quite a bit left to be desired as a scorer. His PER is below average, and his win shares aren't much (though I have a particular distaste for that particular stat). Even his advanced definsive metrics don't impress. If you're a fan of advanced stats, they're not on his side, and that's putting it mildly. If you're not, you probably don't care.

Consistency:

This was as apparent at the end of this season as it has been at any point in his career so far. He doesn't just disappear sometimes. He straight up shoots us out of games at times.

And probably some other stuff I'm missing.

Even if you really like his positives and give him a pass for his negatives, it doesn't really feel like there's any way to argue that he's anything more than an average starter. You could argue he's less than that, but to me average starter is about the high mark that can be reasonably argued in his favor.

How do you feel about maxing him? Do we have a choice?

Izzite · Post #2 » by **Izzite** » Sat Apr 15, 2017 7:50 pm

See I think he's undeserving of the max, but some crappy team with cap space is going to throw the money at him and we unfortunately can't afford to lose him for nothing at this point. Right now we know what we have in kcp and as you stated he's a young average player in this league, and in my opinion has some potential to grow into more. Then there's the unknown of going out and trying to sign someone to fill that starting position (unless you think bullock can handle the spot), and I really don't like the idea of that considering how thin the sg position it is. I think we are stuck giving him the max.

Post #3 » by **Snakebites** » Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:02 pm

Izzite wrote:See I think he's undeserving of the max, but some crappy team with cap space is going to throw the money at him and we unfortunately can't afford to lose him for nothing at this point. Right now we know what we have in kcp and as you stated he's a young average player in this league, and in my opinion has some potential to grow into more. Then there's the unknown of going out and trying to sign someone to fill that starting position (unless you think bullock can handle the spot), and I really don't like the idea of that considering how thin the sg position it is. I think we are stuck giving him the max.

I think it's time to stop talking potential with him.

LaSheed · Post #4 » by **LaSheed** » Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:24 pm

My opinion of KCP is he needs to prove himself on a 15 mill per year deal first.

Demar Derozen is the perfect example. Extended him 4 years 40 million. Everybody thought he was overpaid. Earned that deal then got his max.

Im okay with a 2-3 year deal at 15 per and probably million dollar increase.

Max? No sir

Will this happen? No sir

sfballa13 · Post #5 » by **sfballa13** » Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:53 pm

It doesnt matter what the final evaluation is

We cant sign someone else so we have no choice but to match and hope he either plays up to the contract or we can trade him before anyone figures that out

DBC10 · Post #6 » by **DBC10** » Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:57 pm

I'd love to retain him for less but the reality is, he'll attract a list of suitors for his services that will run the bid high.

And really, I don't think we're really in a great situation where we can let go of young talent at will. Assuming Dre and RJ aren't considered the future anymore.

MotownMadness · Post #7 » by **MotownMadness** » Sat Apr 15, 2017 8:58 pm

I'm not doing a max, Highest I go is 20 per and that's just because of what guys like Crabbe and Tyler Johnson got setting the market. His inconsistency shooting is becoming worrisome.

sc8581 · Post #8 » by **sc8581** » Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:04 pm

Match any offer.

ImHeisenberg · Post #9 » by **ImHeisenberg** » Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:08 pm

I can't help but measure everything against the expectation that the Nets will offer him a max contract.

In that scenario, there is no way in my mind that KCP is a player that's worth keeping if it will cost roughly 25% of the cap space for the next 4 years.

Izzite · Post #10 » by **Izzite** » Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:40 pm

Snakebites wrote:
Izzite wrote:See I think he's undeserving of the max, but some crappy team with cap space is going to throw the money at him and we unfortunately can't afford to lose him for nothing at this point. Right now we know what we have in kcp and as you stated he's a young average player in this league, and in my opinion has some potential to grow into more. Then there's the unknown of going out and trying to sign someone to fill that starting position (unless you think bullock can handle the spot), and I really don't like the idea of that considering how thin the sg position it is. I think we are stuck giving him the max.

I think it's time to stop talking potential with him.

I'd agree if he weren't 24.

JD43320 · Post #11 » by **JD43320** » Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:16 pm

MotownMadness wrote:I'm not doing a max, Highest I go is 20 per and that's just because of what guys like Crabbe and Tyler Johnson got setting the market. His inconsistency shooting is becoming worrisome.

He's not an inconsistent shooter. He's just a really crappy one that has fluke good games.

Post #12 » by **Snakebites** » Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:16 pm

ImHeisenberg wrote:I can't help but measure everything against the expectation that the Nets will offer him a max contract.

In that scenario, there is no way in my mind that KCP is a player that's worth keeping if it will cost roughly 25% of the cap space for the next 4 years.

See, this is the way I look at it.

I know the thought of losing him for nothing is terrible. I'm not denying that. But at some point, in terms of our future as a franchise, you really need to ask yourself if this guy is really worth 25% of our cap space. Should we pay all that to keep him, or deal Reggie away, let KCP walk, and accept a short term step back in terms of building a sustainable future?

It's not all or nothing, removing Reggie is something we should be interested in whether we're keeping KCP or not, but I think these are legitimate questions, it shouldn't just be a "match or bust".

Good teams should be willing to spend themselves into oblivion to keep their teams together. That's not what we are right now. This core isn't worth a high payroll.

Kilo · Post #13 » by **Kilo** » Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:21 pm

I've flipped on having to match any offer. He's not nearly worth the max offer he's likely going to get. Draft a 2-guard 13th overall and move on. I don't think he'd be remotely tradeable with a max contract and we'll be stuck with him just like we're stuck with Reggie and Dre now.

Best case is work out a S&T with whoever he's going to sign with, so we get something and a huge TPE. Acquiring team should be open to a S&T to guarantee we don't match and keep him.

JRK · Post #14 » by **JRK** » Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:24 pm

I like KCP, he plays hard.

Detroit should match any offer.

Pharaoh · Post #15 » by **Pharaoh** » Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:28 pm

The message you send by not matching is that we as an organization don't value guys that play hard 99% of the time.

Is that the message you want to send when you're likely to be ripping this core apart after letting KCP walk for nothing?

We could draft at SG & retain Bullock on a cheap deal and play them & SJ at SG...but does that make us any better or change our cap issues in any meaningful way?

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Kilo · Post #16 » by **Kilo** » Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:33 pm

KCP might play hard, but he's not very good. And it's not like his work ethic rubs off on the other players, or he's a team leader in that or any regard. Our three biggest cornerstones all hang out in the He-Man SVG H8ers clubhouse - Dre, Reggie and Stanley Johnson, and at times this season it was Mook and Harris speaking up and out. KCP is a lead by example type, but his on court output doesn't lead a very good example.

KCP is a complimentary player on a contender, and we're not a contender, and no way a contending team could be a contender paying KCP max money. Unless that team has Lebron on it .

sc8581 · Post #17 » by **sc8581** » Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:44 pm

Players get more consistent when surrounded by consistency, nobody on this team is consistent so the players are being judged as individuals based on team success downgrading their value tremendously. Adding just one consistently efficient player could change things dramatically and I believe that's what we should attempt to do instead of blowing the whole thing up.

The Moose · Post #18 » by **The Moose** » Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:49 pm

His post-all star game stats make me very hesitant.

12.9 ppg on 37% fg, 30% 3 (on 6 attempts per game) in 32 mins per game.

TBH, I'm not sure if we should give him the max. What I know is that someone else will, and Bower sounds like he plans to match everything.

JohnReese · Post #19 » by **JohnReese** » Sat Apr 15, 2017 11:58 pm

He did a great season till he got trapped in the bad dynamic of the team. It didn't help him the lack of regularity of his use. Some day he got 20 shoots and the other 5.

The kind of player that a coach wants to get to the next level, because he can.

bstein14 · Post #20 » by **bstein14** » Sun Apr 16, 2017 12:15 am

Even losing Greg Monroe for nothing was bad... At least he's a player who plays hard on a nightly basis even when his shot isn't falling.

Dre got the MAX, can't at the end of close games, and disappears for entire games sometimes. Doesn't have the heart or work ethic of a great player.

If we let KCP walk we're likely looking at missing the playoffs and picking 7th to 12th again this year like we have done 6 of the last 7 years.