Best Starting 5 of All-Time; For this current era

[blueadams]

Me:

Kareem
LeBron
Bird
MJ
Steph

**********

Selection Thought Process..

#1. Michael Jordan. He's the best player in the history of the game, probably. The best perimeter scoring threat of all-time. The best perimeter defender of all-time, possibly. The best intangibles of all-time, maybe. In today's game - - - ala James Harden - - - he'd probably be your lead ball-handler / pick-and-roll-handler.. and it's a role he'd really shine in. A career 33% shooter from deep; certainly not a guy you'd ever want to give an open three to. And lead dogs are lead dogs, but MJ would do whatever it took to win, period. And he'd be a great teammate and leader for a group such as this. Easy selection #1.

#2. LeBron James. Magic Johnson in Karl Malone's body. Who's an incredible defender. Who's a career 34% 3-pt shooter. Figure out the position later, LeBron is easy selection #2. What's more, at heart, he's truly a pass-first player; and one who would really shine on a team like this. Big, strong and athletic enough to guard - - really - - 4 or 5 positions on the court, and well. Handles the ball - - and distributes - - well enough to run point. Shoots from deep well enough to hang in the corner. Attacks the rim as well as anyone in the history of the game next to Jordan. Really can bang down low like a Karl Malone if need be. And durable. A winner as well. Easy selection #2.

#3. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. Now.. true, the GSW do just fine without a traditional dominant low-post presence.. in this cap-hinged era. They do just fine with Draymond Green at the 5. And you could do just fine with a guy like LeBron James or Magic Johnson at the 5. But I bet the GSW's would much prefer to have a traditional dominant low-post presence if they could. A guy who protects the rim and rebounds well on defense, of course. But much more importantly, a guy who draws defenses in away from the three-point line; and who can be relied on for easy buckets when the shot clocks up, or the deep balls just aren't falling. Kareem, all 7 foot 3 inches of him... he's just always open. And whenever he's got the ball... he's got a good look, a high-percentage shot. No matter who's guarding him, or how many guys are guarding him. He's probably the best -- most talented, most gifted -- scorer in the history of the game period. Defensive accolades? Check his. A great defender. With his size, athleticism and length. Even on switches, athletic enough to stick with perimeter attackers, to recover, and to challenge shots.. or to challenge outside shots. Toughness? Watch some of his old one-on-one matchups with Wilt. IQ? Check. Intangibles? Check. Selflessness? Check.

...Shaq, Wilt, Russell -- all 50% career FT shooters. Can't have any Drummonds out there at the end of games in today's league. Hakeem? A guy I really considered. A little more athletic than Kareem (for switching purposes), and a better all-around defender. But, man, Kareem.. whenever he gets the ball he's got a good look. Hakeem was more a guy who had to work for his. Dirk? Another guy I strongly considered.. as he had legit 5 size, was a decent post defender, and an amazing 3-pt shooter. But I'll roll with Kareem. David Robinson, Duncan, Garnett, etc. Guys who I feel weren't as good as Hakeem.

#4. Larry Bird. Main guy I thought about here was Durant. But Bird's competitiveness gave him the edge. Durant's a better athlete, sure. But is he really a much better defender?? I'd want Bird on my side if I had to pick between the two.

#5. Steph Curry. Main guy I thought about here was Kobe -- as he's such a better defender, an apt 3-pt shooter, and obviously a good scorer. But, Steph man, he just is a threat as soon as he crosses the half-court line. He reaaaallly spreads defenses out. He doesn't need to have the ball in his hands all the time to be effective (and Jordan would have the ball in his hands a lot - - would Kobe be effective alongside him?). He's got a great attitude, humble, team player. Would Kobe be okay with that? Plus.. Steph really isn't a weak defender.

[tmorgan]

This is an interesting experiment, and I'm not about to get into a big argument about something hypothetical, but I don't understand the reasoning that gets Kobe Bryant on this team. He may have been able to play elite guard defense at times, but if we're judging on results/reality, he didn't do it that often. He was also an OK shooter at best from distance that was only super efficient if he was getting to the line. I just don't think he has a place on this team. He was, in a lot of ways, "inferior Jordan", and there's no reason to have him here with actual Jordan on the team.

Durant is definitely arguable, too, because if we're judging by body of work, his defense has been average most of the time. Torn there.

I want Jordan and LeBron on my team, obviously, and I think a guy like Magic does really shine with even better teammates, because he'll move the ball the same way LeBron does with even more consistency. Playing them at the 1, 4, and 5 doesn't make any sense, though.

If you just play people (at least offensively) at more appropriate positions, you can replace Kobe with Hakeem or Shaq. I do that immediately, with Hakeem, for the added defense.

G: Jordan/Magic
F: LeBron/Durant
C: Hakeem

I too went with Durant over Bird. He's just a somewhat better scorer and much better defender. Bird is a far superior passer, but I don't think this team needs that with Magic and LeBron on it already.

[pistontr]

C: Kobe Bryant
PF: Stephen Curry
SF: Chris Paul
SG: Isaiah Thomas
PG: Isiah Thomas

[Pharaoh]

Again? Come on

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[sc8581]

Hakeem
Duncan
Bird
Jordan
LeBron

[Manocad]

Yawn
Been there, done that

[ImHeisenberg]

Riveting conversation

[In SVG We Trust]

Curry
Klay
LeBron
Durant
Olajuwon

[Alexander]

Death lineup.

Curry
Jordan
Durant
LeBron
Garnett

I have full faith that Jordan would have elevated his 3PT% had it been a pertinent skill to develop. He's arguably the greatest midrange shooter ever.

[Scottgaf]

Olajuwon
Duncan
Lebron
MJ
Majic

Key reserves

The brow
K. Malone
Bird
Durant
Curry

[tmorgan]

Death lineup.

Curry
Jordan
Durant
LeBron
Garnett

I have full faith that Jordan would have elevated his 3PT% had it been a pertinent skill to develop. He's arguably the greatest midrange shooter ever.

It's an interesting thing you've said, and I've heard it before. How is it NOT a pertinent skill? It's a shot worth more points. If Jordan could have been a 40% three point shooter, he would have, because he was insanely driven about basketball. Doing things other people didn't do wouldn't have bothered him a bit.

Now if you want to argue the era "coached him out of it", I can maybe buy that. Maybe.

[Alexander]

Death lineup.

Curry
Jordan
Durant
LeBron
Garnett

I have full faith that Jordan would have elevated his 3PT% had it been a pertinent skill to develop. He's arguably the greatest midrange shooter ever.

It's an interesting thing you've said, and I've heard it before. How is it NOT a pertinent skill? It's a shot worth more points. If Jordan could have been a 40% three point shooter, he would have, because he was insanely driven about basketball. Doing things other people didn't do wouldn't have bothered him a bit.

Now if you want to argue the era "coached him out of it", I can maybe buy that. Maybe.

That's exactly what I'm saying. The era didn't emphasize threes to the extent that today's game does.
Look at the attempts per game of all the heralded shooters. They were all depressed back then.
It's not just Jordan; Bird would have shot more, Miller would have shot more, Allan Houston would have shot more.
I contend that Jordan would have practiced the shot more often had it been a staple of offenses like it is today and wasn't back then.


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[Alexander]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats.html

I believe that Jordan was a great enough shooter and player that his percentages would have actually benefited from an increase in volume due to an incentivized focus on the shot.

When he was a rising player they were only shooting 2-7 threes a game! Now it's 27 on average! (Unless I'm reading the chart wrong, I'm on my phone at the gym)


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[Uncle Mxy]

This current era needs some toughening up, so here's the team to do it:

Oakley
Laimbeer
Artest
Rodman
Stockton

[Warspite]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats.html

I believe that Jordan was a great enough shooter and player that his percentages would have actually benefited from an increase in volume due to an incentivized focus on the shot.

When he was a rising player they were only shooting 2-7 threes a game! Now it's 27 on average! (Unless I'm reading the chart wrong, I'm on my phone at the gym)


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Your forgeing that the reason players shoot 27 3pt shots is because they cant shoot from anywhere else. Its not the 2vs3 argument. Its the argument that its easier to get from a 28% to a 38% 3pt shooter than it is to become an elite post scorer.

Its easier to become 80% of Curry than it is to become 80% of McHale. Especially when you consider that todays players aren't taught how to play in the post so todays players through no fault of there own are years behind in certain skills and most likely will never make that time up. So why not take the easy road and become a shooter instead of someone who dominates the post?

[mrroboto4889]

This current era needs some toughening up, so here's the team to do it:

Oakley
Laimbeer
Artest
Rodman
Stockton

For real though. Idk if these conversations are about "the 5 best players" or "make a lineup that wouldn't lose" but some hybrid of this and what everyone else is saying is what would win in some sort of tournament that can't happen. I'd go:

Stockton
MJ
LeBron
Rodman
Hakeem

So you have MJ that needs his shots and Hakeem deserves the ball in the post. But aside from those 2, you have 3 very unselfish players. And each guy can defend his position.

[Alexander]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats.html

I believe that Jordan was a great enough shooter and player that his percentages would have actually benefited from an increase in volume due to an incentivized focus on the shot.

When he was a rising player they were only shooting 2-7 threes a game! Now it's 27 on average! (Unless I'm reading the chart wrong, I'm on my phone at the gym)


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Your forgeing that the reason players shoot 27 3pt shots is because they cant shoot from anywhere else. Its not the 2vs3 argument. Its the argument that its easier to get from a 28% to a 38% 3pt shooter than it is to become an elite post scorer.

Its easier to become 80% of Curry than it is to become 80% of McHale. Especially when you consider that todays players aren't taught how to play in the post so todays players through no fault of there own are years behind in certain skills and most likely will never make that time up. So why not take the easy road and become a shooter instead of someone who dominates the post?

I don't think I'm forgetting anything? and I don't know how to respond to this without sounding like an angry old man who is shaking his fist at the clouds. This is tangential. I'll give it a try nevertheless.
Jordan was a great post player for his position, as was Kobe. They were both so-so three point shooters. If it's easier to coach up someone to be 80% of Curry, then I think that aids my argument that Jordan could have been coached up/encouraged/motivated/obligated to be a better and more frequent shooter from deep.
I admire the great post players, I wish we could see more of them, it makes me feel strange that they're being phased out and that the great modern post players are getting old. Once Al Jefferson and Zach Randolph are gone, who is left that isn't in a hurry to add deep range to their game? Hell, even Dwight Howard is saying that's in development for him.

[Cowology]

If I were picking 1 player to build a team around in the current era it wouldn't be LeBron or Jordan. It would be Shaq. Just go ahead and throw away everything you think you know about the evolution of the game and how traditional centers are dead. Shaq would eat this league alive.

C: Shaq
PF: KG
SF: Bowen
SG: Jordan
PG: Curry

There are dozens of ways to go about this. You could obviously plug in LeBron, Durant, Hakeem or even Dirk at PF. Bowen is no doubt a head scratcher for some, but there is still only 1 ball to go around and I actually value role players. I almost plugged Bowen in at SG with Durant at SF and I think offensively I may actually like that better... but I had to go back to Jordan because of his D. The combination of him & Bowen (plus KG) was critical to my plan defensively.

People forget that Prime Shaq was a 40/20 machine at a time when guys like Ewing, The Admiral, Duncan & Hakeem were still around. I have never seen a single player be as dominant as Shaq was during his peak. Nobody. But then we add in Jordan and surround them with shooters? Oh my...

[Pharaoh]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_stats.html

I believe that Jordan was a great enough shooter and player that his percentages would have actually benefited from an increase in volume due to an incentivized focus on the shot.

When he was a rising player they were only shooting 2-7 threes a game! Now it's 27 on average! (Unless I'm reading the chart wrong, I'm on my phone at the gym)


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM Forums

Your forgeing that the reason players shoot 27 3pt shots is because they cant shoot from anywhere else. Its not the 2vs3 argument. Its the argument that its easier to get from a 28% to a 38% 3pt shooter than it is to become an elite post scorer.

Its easier to become 80% of Curry than it is to become 80% of McHale. Especially when you consider that todays players aren't taught how to play in the post so todays players through no fault of there own are years behind in certain skills and most likely will never make that time up. So why not take the easy road and become a shooter instead of someone who dominates the post?

I don't think I'm forgetting anything? and I don't know how to respond to this without sounding like an angry old man who is shaking his fist at the clouds. This is tangential. I'll give it a try nevertheless.
Jordan was a great post player for his position, as was Kobe. They were both so-so three point shooters. If it's easier to coach up someone to be 80% of Curry, then I think that aids my argument that Jordan could have been coached up/encouraged/motivated/obligated to be a better and more frequent shooter from deep.
I admire the great post players, I wish we could see more of them, it makes me feel strange that they're being phased out and that the great modern post players are getting old. Once Al Jefferson and Zach Randolph are gone, who is left that isn't in a hurry to add deep range to their game? Hell, even Dwight Howard is saying that's in development for him.

IMO the only reason the greats of Jordan's era didn't bomb from 3 all night long was because the entire game of basketball was viewed differently then

Back then it was all post play and mid range shots...now it's 3s and FTs

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[In SVG We Trust]

Post game nowadays is so much difficult to play than the old days. The defensive systems are now more developed and helps are like 1000 times better.

I mean, a player like Shaq nowadays would be still as dominant or even more, but his game would change, for sure. He would have less possession in the post and more pick n roll, because is harder than ever to put the ball inside.

Anyway, surrounded by shooters and a great P&R PG he would be scary as f*. I mean, he wouldn't allow to switch because he would eat alive any small player. And he was an underrated passer, he playing with a Beal/Redick type of player on the corner would be MONEY.

I think he could suffer more on the defensive, but still would be an impactful player.