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I just feel that the Pistons are in a really bad situation for the next 3-5+ years. Have no cap space to go after a decent name and overpaid players who wouldn't give us a good return with the same or more value. Though the NBA is dominated by the Cavs and Warriors, the next generation is approaching us with the likes of MIN and PHI with such promising teams, that leaves us Pistons to sit here and just play MyGM on 2k.

TOPIC 1 - Drafting
We need to get lucky in the draft, so we need to hire some good scouts. All our draft picks ceilings are fringe starters or role players. We haven't had a perennial all star and transcendent player since Grant Hill.
10' - Monroe 7th
Drafted After: Hayward 9th , PG13 10th, Sanders 15th, Bledsoe 18th, Whiteside 33rd

11' - Knight 8th
Drafted After: Kemba 9th, Klay 11th, Kawhi 15th & Butler 30th

12' - Dummond(high risk high reward pick which wasnt bad but not our cornerstone) & Middleton (burning how he turned out)

13' - KCP 8th (our best player who I'd love to keep)
Drafted After: McCollum 10th, GIANNIS!!!! 15th, Gobert 27th

14' - No 1st round but missed out on Jokic at 41

15- Johnson 8th (i was super hyped drafting him, reminded me of Ron Artest)
Drafted After: Winslow 10th, Turner 11th, Booker 13th

Though the draft is luck, we never seem to get lucky. Seeing the draft picks we passed on become studs for their respective teams hurts me as a die hard pistons fan.

TOPIC 2 - Current Situation
We are in NBA purgatory in the EAST!!! Competing for 6th - 8th seed and always hovering between 6th - 10th so making playoffs and getting a high draft pick is unlikely. We have overpaid our "main"players Drummond 23mil+, Jackson 16mil+ & thers Leur 10mil+ so there isnt much room to make a play for a RFA, dont think a UFA would come to Detroit unless they're from Michigan. I'm a little biased but I've never been a fan of Jackson so he's got to go.

Starters
C - Dummond (package trade or keep)
PF - Leuer (start & keep until Ellenson can contribute
SF - Morris (keep due to his great contract or include in package)
SG - KCP (somehow keep or sign n trade)
PG - Smith (keep great back-up)

Bench Rotation
6 - Harris (keep, reliable starting or off the bench and contract may be too hard to move even though descending)
7 - Jackson (package trade or Josh Smith him)
8 - Baynes (probably gone but a valuable player if we were a playoff team)
9 - Johnson (Just hope he gives us something)

Dream viable roster - All I ask for is a team that's entertaining to watch and winning/finishing games
C - Drummond (if he has a reduced role of rebounder and become a defensive anchor) or Tyson Chandler if that means we get Bledsoe
PF - Milsap
SF - Morris
SG - KCP
PG - Bledsoe (somehow get him from PHX since there's been rumors)

Bench
6 - Harris
7 - Smith
8 - Johnson
9 - Kennard
10 - Marjanovic
11 - Leuer

I think our bench has decent depth so just need to get rid of Voldemort (Jackson) and make a move for players that will help us become respectable and return to the Detroit culture. (Haven't really taken into account salaries just dreaming)

I'm a big believer that defense wins - always.

I also believe there's several opportunities to get out from under the contracts to Jon & RJ and we should be exploring them.

We need an offense centred around movement where Dre sets screens and picks for players in motion, engaging the D as our perimeter guys all share the playmaker role

Unfortunately I don't believe SVG and I are on the same page

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Welcome to the Board

lowdcruz wrote:I just feel that the Pistons are in a really bad situation for the next 3-5+ years. Have no cap space to go after a decent name and overpaid players who wouldn't give us a good return with the same or more value. Though the NBA is dominated by the Cavs and Warriors, the next generation is approaching us with the likes of MIN and PHI with such promising teams, that leaves us Pistons to sit here and just play MyGM on 2k.

Overpaid???

The only player who's overpaid on our squad is Dre.
Rj's literally a average valued contract in this CBA and is on for another 3 years
TH is also undervalued in today's CBA

KCP's about to get paid, but i wouldn't call it overpaid being that he's going to earn every ounce of that contract. If he earns even a $1 less than Dipo, i am going to consider that a bargain contract.

and we'd have to offer like 40 mil a year or have some sort of home town ties to attract any FA . Realistically our hopes for a game changing superstar will be found through a sneaky good trade or drafting.

TOPIC 1 - Drafting
We need to get lucky in the draft, so we need to hire some good scouts. All our draft picks ceilings are fringe starters or role players. We haven't had a perennial all star and transcendent player since Grant Hill.

Though the draft is luck, we never seem to get lucky. Seeing the draft picks we passed on become studs for their respective teams hurts me as a die hard pistons fan.

System , roster, coaching scheme, etc all matter when drafting a player. I would argue we actually drafted pretty well at where we picked but failed to use those assets to acquire much better assets. That is until SVG was hired.

Also we have one of the largest scouting staffs in the league and a robust statistical department. I think from where SVG has drafted, we have picked the BPA every single time. Booker was #2 on our board and Turner made no sense with Dre. Winslow has done nothing to justify his lottery selection so i definitely disagree there.

Our problem is we have a young team who's skillset isn't polished nor is their mental make up. Looking at who SVg has drafted, they all have a legit shot to be core players.

Also if we don't draft SJ we draft Booker and if we draft Booker then we draft mitchel(in theory)

I'd rather have SJ/LK than DB/Mitchel.


While i have legit concerns about our team, mostly stemming from our main core players in RJ and DRe. I think this is a bit of a overreaction. Dre actually improved last season, i haven't looked at stats, but he was noticably more comfortable in the post and defensively actually was putting forth effort. He absolutely was destorying the PnR defensively. KCP and TH also took notable steps forward and RJ , before his injury, was the talk of the town at the Piston's practice facility.

In other words, its not time to give up yet, though that time is getting closer. As i stated in the other thread, the encouraging part is that if we find RJ and Dre aren't the core pieces we thought, we have legit alternative options and moving both dre and RJ for + assets won't be that hard in this CBA if we really wanted to move them

Pharaoh wrote:I'm a big believer that defense wins - always.

I also believe there's several opportunities to get out from under the contracts to Jon & RJ and we should be exploring them.

We need an offense centred around movement where Dre sets screens and picks for players in motion, engaging the D as our perimeter guys all share the playmaker role

Unfortunately I don't believe SVG and I are on the same page

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i was also a big believer in Defense wins, but in this era of Bball , you really need a elite offense if you want to compete. I believe if you even look at the history of the NBA statistically, the Championship teams were a good on both sides of the ball. The encouraging part of our team is that we have a lot of players who physically are mismatches offensively and versatile defensively , so the pieces of the formula of having a good team are there, its really a matter of development so that we get the benefit of that mismatch consistently.

I would acquire Kevin Love via 3 Team trade. Then trade Reggie Jackson for Eric Bledsoe. Viola

Blkbrd671 wrote:

Pharaoh wrote:I'm a big believer that defense wins - always.

I also believe there's several opportunities to get out from under the contracts to Jon & RJ and we should be exploring them.

We need an offense centred around movement where Dre sets screens and picks for players in motion, engaging the D as our perimeter guys all share the playmaker role

Unfortunately I don't believe SVG and I are on the same page

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i was also a big believer in Defense wins, but in this era of Bball , you really need a elite offense if you want to compete. I believe if you even look at the history of the NBA statistically, the Championship teams were a good on both sides of the ball. The encouraging part of our team is that we have a lot of players who physically are mismatches offensively and versatile defensively , so the pieces of the formula of having a good team are there, its really a matter of development so that we get the benefit of that mismatch consistently.

The pieces might be there but IMO they don't fit and SVG hasn't shown a willingness to embrace changes to his system

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Pharaoh wrote:I'm a big believer that defense wins - always.

Well, I don't want to shake your beliefs, but that is wrong. Cleveland stormed through the east on elite offense with pretty weak defense.

ImHeisenberg wrote:

Pharaoh wrote:I'm a big believer that defense wins - always.

Well, I don't want to shake your beliefs, but that is wrong. Cleveland stormed through the east on elite offense with pretty weak defense.

They faced no team in the East that worries me - or should worry anyone else - assuming we get to the playoffs!

The East is weak as can be and from what we've seen Atlanta & Chicago are taking themselves out of the race!

Cleveland, Washington, Boston...then a bunch of maybes



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Fire SVG and hire Hinkie.

Sadly there is no immediate fix for this team. I would start by trading Tobias and KCP (eventually) for future first rounders. Hopefully ones far away with minimal protection. Start your draft picks. Lose and tank. Evaluate Stanley with playing time. Fire SVG and get someone that knows how to develop players. If Dre and/or Reggie pan out, trade then for picks. Target 4 years after we are free of the cap anchors and GS window is closing and Lebron is done or close.

Kilo wrote:Fire SVG and hire Hinkie.

This

I would actually feel more inclined to follow the team knowing we would be tanking or collecting assets for the future. We need a tear down, Van Bowers might've made us slight better than what we were, but as of now we just look like we dug one deep hole of mediocrity that we can't get out of. We need to bite the bullet and start tanking asap!




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Assuming the Pelicans lose Jrue Holiday:

Pistons in: Rubio / Cole Aldrich / Alexis Ajinca / Quincy Pondexter

Wolves in: Mook / Leuer / Pelicans 2nd round pick

Pelicans in: Reggie Jackson

Pelicans get a better replacement for Jrue than they could likely get on the market and just need to give up bad contracts and a 2nd round pick to do it.

Wolves get 2 guys who can help space the floor around KAT / Butler / Wiggins and create an extra $5 mil in cap room. They could pursue a guy like George Hill or Jeff Teague in FA, maybe even Kyle Lowry.

Rubio is a massive defensive upgrade and should give us a solid defensive backcourt with KCP. He's also the best playmaker we would have in a long long time. We save a little bit of money this year, but more importantly shave off the 4th year due Leuer and Reggie, completely clearing out our cap (except for Dre and KCP) after the 2018-19 season. Play our young guys big minutes

Pistons:

Rubio (33 min) / Ish (15 min) / Gbinjie
KCP (34) / Kennard (14) / Pondexter / Hilliard
Stanley (33) / Tobias (10) / Kennard (5)
Tobias (23) / Ellenson (25)
Drummond (30) / Boban (18) / Aldrich / Ajinca


Reassess at the trade deadline.

There's no easy or surefire fix for the Pistons. In terms of contract and long term potential, we're heavily invested in Dre and Reggie. The hope that they would be an important part of a contending core dimmed considerably over the last year. Their trade value is minimal, probably negative in Reggie's case. Our best hope is to see if Reggie returns to good health and he and Dre regain form. Let's remember Reggie got national buzz as an all-star snub in the prior season and Dre is 23 with incredible tools.

I would be open to trading Harris and/or Morris, particularly Morris, if we could net a young player, pick, etc. But before the draft may have been the time to do that.

only fix is the coach.

Ellenson was a bad pick. Instead of drafting a scorer with bad percentages, just get a defender.

Other than that it's all coaching. If he puts guys in the right position to succeed. If he stops picking people to play based on age. If he stops yelling about defense and actually gives defensive players more minutes, the Pistons could do great.

RJ/Ish
KCP/Luke
SJ/Morris
Leuer/Tobias
Drummond/Boban

If you put those 10 guys on the floor, you have a good balance of defense and offense in the STARTING lineup. You need all 3 defenders to play with your overrated franchise guys RJ/Drummond, because you overpaid them for their offensive minded athleticism.
Your bench just focuses on scoring. Then you have a chance of winning.

If you play injured guys for 50 games (Reggie Jackson), and you bench your defensive players for making offensive mistakes (Stanley). And you start Iso Morris and let him do his fadeaway mid range offense every possession because he's a few years older than Stanley Johnson... And you feed Andre Drummond in the post like it's 1986... then you are going to be a losing team.

It's all on coaching. He's got what he needs its just his decision making skills that need to change or he needs to hire a coach that is mentally updated to 2017 NBA.

Hope Reggie come back good to go and Drummond went on a shopping spree with his money and is now ready to play basketball.

Other than that maybe trade Morris for a shooter but for the most part stick with what we got and see what happens.

Pharaoh wrote:

Blkbrd671 wrote:

Pharaoh wrote:I'm a big believer that defense wins - always.

I also believe there's several opportunities to get out from under the contracts to Jon & RJ and we should be exploring them.

We need an offense centred around movement where Dre sets screens and picks for players in motion, engaging the D as our perimeter guys all share the playmaker role

Unfortunately I don't believe SVG and I are on the same page

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i was also a big believer in Defense wins, but in this era of Bball , you really need a elite offense if you want to compete. I believe if you even look at the history of the NBA statistically, the Championship teams were a good on both sides of the ball. The encouraging part of our team is that we have a lot of players who physically are mismatches offensively and versatile defensively , so the pieces of the formula of having a good team are there, its really a matter of development so that we get the benefit of that mismatch consistently.

The pieces might be there but IMO they don't fit and SVG hasn't shown a willingness to embrace changes to his system

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?? other than running it the entire time RJ was out? We went back to the 1-5PnR dominated offense because that is what this team was built around. Should SVG have went back to KCP and TH dominated team?????? yes, but the reality of the situation in hindsight is that the Pistons were still considered RJ and Dre's team. This season if he continues to beat the RJ drum, then i am more incline to agree to his stubborness

Blkbrd671 wrote:

Pharaoh wrote:

Blkbrd671 wrote:
i was also a big believer in Defense wins, but in this era of Bball , you really need a elite offense if you want to compete. I believe if you even look at the history of the NBA statistically, the Championship teams were a good on both sides of the ball. The encouraging part of our team is that we have a lot of players who physically are mismatches offensively and versatile defensively , so the pieces of the formula of having a good team are there, its really a matter of development so that we get the benefit of that mismatch consistently.

The pieces might be there but IMO they don't fit and SVG hasn't shown a willingness to embrace changes to his system

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?? other than running it the entire time RJ was out? We went back to the 1-5PnR dominated offense because that is what this team was built around. Should SVG have went back to KCP and TH dominated team?????? yes, but the reality of the situation in hindsight is that the Pistons were still considered RJ and Dre's team. This season if he continues to beat the RJ drum, then i am more incline to agree to his stubborness

Whether we like it or not SVG stuck with the Reggie Jackson show cause it was the best offense we had regardless if KCP and Tobias or who ever else were gettin shine. It just so happens Reggie was hurt and was god awful.

Jon has an idea for us.

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