We need a starting PF

[MotownMadness]

Dre isn't getting paid for his current production. He's getting paid in hopes that he develops into a star. That's what SVG is/was betting on. Adams just cashed in on a crazy summer. If he had to hit the open market next year, I don't think he gets that deal again.

Yeah Drummond was way more highly touted before entering the league and has been trying to reach his potential.

Adams just plays his role and does it well but we've seen Dre in that role as well his first couple years and he was much better than a guy like Adams doing it. Just hope Dre can get back in that mentality now after getting so much freedom offensively last year.

[ImHeisenberg]

We need a starting PG, PF and C. Bradley and Harris are the only two players that could start on a good NBA team.

Oh come on. Drummond, despite all of his warts, is still a top 10 center. I count only 10 teams I don't know for sure he wouldn't start on and even some of those are debatable. Closing games however...

I think people (myself included at a time) are blinded by his counting stats. He's an amazing rebounder, but he gives up defensive plays to get rebounding position, and even fights his own teammates for boards because he cares about his numbers. Then, he gets a decent amount of points on garbage buckets.

But, almost all advanced stats and the eye test say he's horrible. His post ups are some of the worst fundamentally unsound plays I've ever witnessed as a fan. He is a bad defender, and his low key personality seems to keep him from barking and communicating on defense, leaving his perimeter defenders clueless as to what may be happening behind them.

He's a carnival act, in my opinion. He can grab lobs, and make some really fun plays to see at times. But, he's just so bad at the fundamental aspects of the game, you are never going to go far with him. Put Marc Gasol on this team, exact same roster, and we'd probably make the playoffs at the 4 or 5 seed. That's the aging, getting slow Marc Gasol. I'm not even referencing DPOY Marc.

Not to say the roster isn't without many, many problems. But, replace Drummond with a legitimate star and they could go far in the east.

If you disagree, that is perfectly fine. This is just my opinion on the player (not the person).

[ImHeisenberg]

I also think Jackson and Dre are kind of a package deal. If Jackson isn't back 100% Dre's production will probably be similar to last year. If Jackson is healthy Dre will benefit greatly from playing in the P&R with him. Unfortunately, I think our entire season hinges on Jackson's health because if we don't have a good Jackson then we don't have a good Drummond then we don't have a good team.

What's your opinion of Reggie's current health?

He hasn't played basketball since March of 2017, and still isn't going 100% in practices and hasn't touched the court with oddball "adductor strains" that team's generally roll out as BS excuses.

I think he's feeling pretty good, probably poor conditioning, but the knee probably is alright. But, I don't think it will hold up throughout the season, which is why they're trying to basically never have him wear on it in the pre-season.

I expect Ish to log more minutes this season than Reggie. Which would be a very bad sign.

[Billl]

The #1 thing Dre needs to do has nothing to do with RJ...... play defense. If Dre dominates the paint on defense, anything he gave us on offense would just be gravy. If he doesn't dominate on D, no amount of pick-and-roll lobs will change that.

[BDM22]

Adams didn't get the max though.

Here are their salaries for the next 4 years...

Adams:
$22,471,910 $24,157,303 $25,842,697 $27,528,090

Drummond:
$23,775,506 $25,434,263 $27,093,019 $28,751,775


Drummond's average salary for the first 4 years of their respective deals is actually lower.

Isn't that because Dre's first year was under the old cap?

Given those figures and what we've seen from both thus far...one could make the argument Adams is the better option



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But that's not the point at all. Your question was can you have a good team with Dre making Dre money. My point was that Adams basically makes the same exact money per year and he has three perennial all-stars next to him. Andre has zero.

I would say neither are worth their money, but clearly OKC has a contending team with Adams on the roster making that kind of money. That wouldn't change in any significant way if you swapped him with Andre. Even if you say they wouldn't be as good, they'd still be a contending team based on Westbrook, PG, and Carmelo alone.

Our problem is that Andre is arguably our best player, while Adams is their 4th best, which is a roster talent level issue, not really an Andre issue.

[Pharaoh]

Here are their salaries for the next 4 years...

Adams:
$22,471,910 $24,157,303 $25,842,697 $27,528,090

Drummond:
$23,775,506 $25,434,263 $27,093,019 $28,751,775


Drummond's average salary for the first 4 years of their respective deals is actually lower.

Isn't that because Dre's first year was under the old cap?

Given those figures and what we've seen from both thus far...one could make the argument Adams is the better option



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But that's not the point at all. Your question was can you have a good team with Dre making Dre money. My point was that Adams basically makes the same exact money per year and he has three perennial all-stars next to him. Andre has zero.

I would say neither are worth their money, but clearly OKC has a contending team with Adams on the roster making that kind of money. That wouldn't change in any significant way if you swapped him with Andre. Even if you say they wouldn't be as good, they'd still be a contending team based on Westbrook, PG, and Carmelo alone.

Our problem is that Andre is arguably our best player, while Adams is their 4th best, which is a roster talent level issue, not really an Andre issue.

But that's due to a lot of various circumstances beyond SVGs control:

1 - we sign Horford that off-season and all of a sudden the talent level receives a massive upgrade.

2 - if RJ is healthy

3 - Tobias is coming on

If we had Horford & RJ was healthy you could argue Dre is our fourth best player, we'd be top 4 in the East, likely kept KCP and our roster would look something like this:

Dre - Horford - a dude like Moreland
Horford - Tobias - Henry
Tobias - SJ - Bullock
KCP - Galloway - rookie
RJ - Ish

Instead we struck out on Horford and SVG chose to get depth because our bench was useless while our starters had carried us to the playoffs.

The problem isn't that we paid Jon & Bobo - they make less combined than a lot of guys on their level - the problem is that at crucial moments where thing's need to fall into place it didn't

Again: the fact that SVG got us into that position within 4 years is a massive achievement that I don't believe is appreciated

From a utter disgrace to essentially 1 signing and 1 healthy RJ away from being looked upon as a blueprint on how to rebuild without a top flight pick!

Hopefully AB, Tobias & a semi healthy RJ can right the ship this season



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[DetroitPistons]

I also think Jackson and Dre are kind of a package deal. If Jackson isn't back 100% Dre's production will probably be similar to last year. If Jackson is healthy Dre will benefit greatly from playing in the P&R with him. Unfortunately, I think our entire season hinges on Jackson's health because if we don't have a good Jackson then we don't have a good Drummond then we don't have a good team.

What's your opinion of Reggie's current health?

He hasn't played basketball since March of 2017, and still isn't going 100% in practices and hasn't touched the court with oddball "adductor strains" that team's generally roll out as BS excuses.

I think he's feeling pretty good, probably poor conditioning, but the knee probably is alright. But, I don't think it will hold up throughout the season, which is why they're trying to basically never have him wear on it in the pre-season.

I expect Ish to log more minutes this season than Reggie. Which would be a very bad sign.

It's hard to say right now but I think RJ will bounce back fine this year. I do think he had a legit groin strain and he was held out for precautionary reasons. He hasn't had any set backs or pain in his knee during training camp either if I remember correctly. Maybe I'm being too optimistic but I think we see a similar RJ of 2 years ago. I just don't think knee tendinitis is going to cripple a player that badly. It was moreso the surgery that RJ struggled to get back from but this time he has had more than enough time to get his knee healthy. I think after a couple months RJ will shake off the rust and get his conditioning down and start to take off again.

[BDM22]

Isn't that because Dre's first year was under the old cap?

Given those figures and what we've seen from both thus far...one could make the argument Adams is the better option



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But that's not the point at all. Your question was can you have a good team with Dre making Dre money. My point was that Adams basically makes the same exact money per year and he has three perennial all-stars next to him. Andre has zero.

I would say neither are worth their money, but clearly OKC has a contending team with Adams on the roster making that kind of money. That wouldn't change in any significant way if you swapped him with Andre. Even if you say they wouldn't be as good, they'd still be a contending team based on Westbrook, PG, and Carmelo alone.

Our problem is that Andre is arguably our best player, while Adams is their 4th best, which is a roster talent level issue, not really an Andre issue.

But that's due to a lot of various circumstances beyond SVGs control:

1 - we sign Horford that off-season and all of a sudden the talent level receives a massive upgrade.

2 - if RJ is healthy

3 - Tobias is coming on

If we had Horford & RJ was healthy you could argue Dre is our fourth best player, we'd be top 4 in the East, likely kept KCP and our roster would look something like this:

Dre - Horford - a dude like Moreland
Horford - Tobias - Henry
Tobias - SJ - Bullock
KCP - Galloway - rookie
RJ - Ish

Instead we struck out on Horford and SVG chose to get depth because our bench was useless while our starters had carried us to the playoffs.

The problem isn't that we paid Jon & Bobo - they make less combined than a lot of guys on their level - the problem is that at crucial moments where thing's need to fall into place it didn't

Again: the fact that SVG got us into that position within 4 years is a massive achievement that I don't believe is appreciated

From a utter disgrace to essentially 1 signing and 1 healthy RJ away from being looked upon as a blueprint on how to rebuild without a top flight pick!

Hopefully AB, Tobias & a semi healthy RJ can right the ship this season



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I'll just quote this again...

The question isn't if Drummond is talented or good enough to start...

The question is if you can have a good team while paying him max money?

I feel like I'm arguing that point when talking about Adams/OKC, and you're replying with something unrelated. I'm not saying SVG is horrible. I'm saying it's possible to build a good team while paying a non-max-worthy center max dollars. That's it.

[Pharaoh]

But that's not the point at all. Your question was can you have a good team with Dre making Dre money. My point was that Adams basically makes the same exact money per year and he has three perennial all-stars next to him. Andre has zero.

I would say neither are worth their money, but clearly OKC has a contending team with Adams on the roster making that kind of money. That wouldn't change in any significant way if you swapped him with Andre. Even if you say they wouldn't be as good, they'd still be a contending team based on Westbrook, PG, and Carmelo alone.

Our problem is that Andre is arguably our best player, while Adams is their 4th best, which is a roster talent level issue, not really an Andre issue.

But that's due to a lot of various circumstances beyond SVGs control:

1 - we sign Horford that off-season and all of a sudden the talent level receives a massive upgrade.

2 - if RJ is healthy

3 - Tobias is coming on

If we had Horford & RJ was healthy you could argue Dre is our fourth best player, we'd be top 4 in the East, likely kept KCP and our roster would look something like this:

Dre - Horford - a dude like Moreland
Horford - Tobias - Henry
Tobias - SJ - Bullock
KCP - Galloway - rookie
RJ - Ish

Instead we struck out on Horford and SVG chose to get depth because our bench was useless while our starters had carried us to the playoffs.

The problem isn't that we paid Jon & Bobo - they make less combined than a lot of guys on their level - the problem is that at crucial moments where thing's need to fall into place it didn't

Again: the fact that SVG got us into that position within 4 years is a massive achievement that I don't believe is appreciated

From a utter disgrace to essentially 1 signing and 1 healthy RJ away from being looked upon as a blueprint on how to rebuild without a top flight pick!

Hopefully AB, Tobias & a semi healthy RJ can right the ship this season



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I'll just quote this again...

The question isn't if Drummond is talented or good enough to start...

The question is if you can have a good team while paying him max money?

I feel like I'm arguing that point when talking about Adams/OKC, and you're replying with something unrelated. I'm not saying SVG is horrible. I'm saying it's possible to build a good team while paying a non-max-worthy center max dollars. That's it.

It's possible for OKC because they have Westbrook.

We don't have anyone on that level so every thing has to fall right to put us in that position

It didn't and now we have to see if the sum of our parts are greater than the whole

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[BDM22]

It's possible for OKC because they have Westbrook.

We don't have anyone on that level so every thing has to fall right to put us in that position

It didn't and now we have to see if the sum of our parts are greater than the whole

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So you're tellin' me there's a chance...


And that's my point. Look at basically every great team out there. They've got a handful of guys making max or near max. Not just one.

Fact is, you've got to get lucky and get a Lebron, Curry, Durant, Westbrook, etc. to put with your secondary guys like Andre, Adams, etc.

[Pharaoh]

It's possible for OKC because they have Westbrook.

We don't have anyone on that level so every thing has to fall right to put us in that position

It didn't and now we have to see if the sum of our parts are greater than the whole

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So you're tellin' me there's a chance...


And that's my point. Look at basically every great team out there. They've got a handful of guys making max or near max. Not just one.

Fact is, you've got to get lucky and get a Lebron, Curry, Durant, Westbrook, etc. to put with your secondary guys like Andre, Adams, etc.

TBH that was my point:

The money we're giving Bobo, Jon & LG we would have spent on players at that level regardless

Heaps of teams have guys like that making more or the same as those guys who play roles

We're not a team that gets bargain free agents either. Call it the Detroit tax if you like but FFS people complained about Baynes getting what he got!

The drama is paying Dre & RJ to be our "best" players when in reality you need a Westbrook, PG13, Harden or whomever as well.

Now we've got AB & Tobias here and showing what they are maybe people would be more comfortable if we added up the salaries of our top 4 & averaged it out?

I don't know - I think last season really eroded what little flicker of hope some had after the playoff push...maybe that's what hurt them the most?

It's all well and good to be a shithouse lottery loser for a decade and know we're stuck in that middle ground....then along comes SVG and suddenly there's a little ember of hope with Jennings and the win streak and build a wall...then we get Tobias, go nuts, make the playoffs & that ember becomes a flame of hope...

Then RJ gets injured and that flame was extinguished like we just got voted out of Survivor!

Now? Hope springs eternal! The ember stills burns...who's gonna carry the flame?

I'm a believer in AB, SVG & SJ. Time will tell

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