Give me j.crowder and beverley instead

[mattao313]

You seem stuck on this idea that in order to build our offense around Tobias & AB that we're forced into Tobias elbow isos and ABs mid range game.

You're aware there's offenses we can run that can avoid those 2 issues yeah?

And while everyone wants shots at the rim, corner 3s and FTs you're also aware that every team is trying to deny exactly that right?

No, people think you can take any player and "build" an offense around them and its not that simple. Avery and Tobias are complimentary players you can't give them the ball and tell them get you a bucket, making them go to guys will have a negative effect. They're great in their roles keep it that way.

You don't have to run isos all the time either!

I don't think anyone believes you can take "any player and build an offense around them".

There are ways to increase their touches in their spots without isolating them or having them in PnRs though.

There's a lot of offenses out there man. Google it

If you think offense is all set plays and fast breaks I suggest you should google it, the pnr is the most used action in the NBA it. Its a reason every decent teams got a high usage player they run the offense through.

[Pharaoh]

http://www.coachesclipboard.net/BasketballOffenses.html

[Pharaoh]

https://www.breakthroughbasketball.com/offenses.html

[Pharaoh]

http://www.hooptactics.com/basketball_basics_offenses

[Pharaoh]

That should be enough

We should not be so heavily dependant on the PnR IMO

[mattao313]

That should be enough

We should not be so heavily dependant on the PnR IMO

Non of those links changes anything regardless of motion or whatever you still need a player that can take on high usage to run an offense Avery or Tobias aren't in that category. You can look at all the good teams for that. Our team is built around the PNR because it can collapse a defense, Reggies scoring ability and Andres GOAT level offensive rebounding and athleticism. No one on the team has the ability to do that consistently motion or no motion, so the team will always be built around that.

[hoophabit]

That should be enough

We should not be so heavily dependant on the PnR IMO

Non of those links changes anything regardless of motion or whatever you still need a player that can take on high usage to run an offense Avery or Tobias aren't in that category. You can look at all the good teams for that. Our team is built around the PNR because it can collapse a defense, Reggies scoring ability and Andres GOAT level offensive rebounding and athleticism. No one on the team has the ability to do that consistently motion or no motion, so the team will always be built around that.

Respectfully, I disagree, at least to some extent. If Reggie can play his best, then you're surely going to want to work that PNR with Drummond. Still, with Bradley, Galloway, Johnson, and perhaps Kennard the Pistons will have sufficient versatility to run a larger motion offense. I apologize if this sounds hopeful.

[Pharaoh]

That should be enough

We should not be so heavily dependant on the PnR IMO

Non of those links changes anything regardless of motion or whatever you still need a player that can take on high usage to run an offense Avery or Tobias aren't in that category. You can look at all the good teams for that. Our team is built around the PNR because it can collapse a defense, Reggies scoring ability and Andres GOAT level offensive rebounding and athleticism. No one on the team has the ability to do that consistently motion or no motion, so the team will always be built around that.

1 - we don't have the calibre of player that deserves a much higher usage compared to his team mates.

RJs offensive abilities don't dwarf ABs or Tobias'

2 - by being so heavily dependant on the Dre/RJ PnR you reduce the other players to spectators - not ideal given RJs offensive ability vs the other guys

3 - we're easier to defend because of 1 & 2 - which puts us at a distinct disadvantage

We do not have the players/roster to depend so heavily on the Dre/RJ PnR

As a roll man Dre is not prime Tyson Chandler or DeAndre Jordan

As a point man RJ is not CP3 or Harden

As a supporting cast we don't have 3 x 35+% 3 point bombers around the Dre/RJ PnR

Given that we have 2 other guys that are the equal of or BETTER than RJ we should not be marginalizing those 2 in order to run plays for arguably 2 worse options!

I'm arguing that running the PnR is NOT suited to our roster & fails to best utilize the abilities of arguably our 2 best offensive players

When you watch GS you don't see endless PnRs where 1 guy is charged with creating the offense: you see bodies in motion, multiple handlers, multiple screens...

The Spurs did the same with Duncan, Diaw, Leonard, Manu, Parker...Euro style lol

Yes the talent level & BBIQ level is on a different level but there's numerous examples of college and other pro teams running similar offenses over the years.

Bodies in motion is much harder to defend...

The PnR should be the bail out option, not the primary

Of course not all PnRs are equal - some are run in order to get RJ or Dre a bucket and then some are run as a bit of a distraction before we get to the actual play.

[mattao313]

That should be enough

We should not be so heavily dependant on the PnR IMO

Non of those links changes anything regardless of motion or whatever you still need a player that can take on high usage to run an offense Avery or Tobias aren't in that category. You can look at all the good teams for that. Our team is built around the PNR because it can collapse a defense, Reggies scoring ability and Andres GOAT level offensive rebounding and athleticism. No one on the team has the ability to do that consistently motion or no motion, so the team will always be built around that.

Respectfully, I disagree, at least to some extent. If Reggie can play his best, then you're surely going to want to work that PNR with Drummond. Still, with Bradley, Galloway, Johnson, and perhaps Kennard the Pistons will have sufficient versatility to run a larger motion offense. I apologize if this sounds hopeful.

I never said you can't run motion or what have you but the offense will be built around Reggie and Drummond cause they have the most pull on a defense. Avery and Tobais don't have the skill set to be #1 options thats all I'm saying.

[Pharaoh]

Non of those links changes anything regardless of motion or whatever you still need a player that can take on high usage to run an offense Avery or Tobias aren't in that category. You can look at all the good teams for that. Our team is built around the PNR because it can collapse a defense, Reggies scoring ability and Andres GOAT level offensive rebounding and athleticism. No one on the team has the ability to do that consistently motion or no motion, so the team will always be built around that.

Respectfully, I disagree, at least to some extent. If Reggie can play his best, then you're surely going to want to work that PNR with Drummond. Still, with Bradley, Galloway, Johnson, and perhaps Kennard the Pistons will have sufficient versatility to run a larger motion offense. I apologize if this sounds hopeful.

I never said you can't run motion or what have you but the offense will be built around Reggie and Drummond cause they have the most pull on a defense. Avery and Tobais don't have the skill set to be #1 options thats all I'm saying.

And RJ & Dre do?

You're saying we should build the offense around 2 lesser guys because our 2 best offensive weapons can't thrive in PnR!

I'm saying scrap the heavy PnR scheme in order to implement a offensive system that allows AB & Tobias to thrive!

[Pharaoh]

In every stats Prediction we have bradley averaging about 18ppg and if harris gets his 5 shots more per Game he is a 20 ppg...look at out going to work group....sure it is another century....but what i wanted to say is...we dont need a Superstar ala irving...we are not far away to have a deep hard working team ....all good shooters and as extra plus superb defenders...sure our games would not make fun like warriors games...but we would be proud of them

Avery and Tobias aren't creators, can't build a offense around Tobias elbow isos and Avery midrange jumpers.

That's your original reply Matty. That is what I responded to and what sparked the discussion about offenses

[mattao313]

1 - we don't have the calibre of player that deserves a much higher usage compared to his team mates.
RJs offensive abilities don't dwarf ABs or Tobias'

1 Meh, you can say Reggie is miscast for his role but so are a lot of others thats why #1 option type are soo valuable.

Reggie skillset is much more suited for a 1 option on a team than Avery or Tobias. I mean would you play Reggie in Avery's role?

2 - by being so heavily dependant on the Dre/RJ PnR you reduce the other players to spectators - not ideal given RJs offensive ability vs the other guys

Sure pnr and less to give opportunities to others is fine, however that doesn't mean Reggie Drummond pnr isn't your meat and potatoes of the offense.

3 - we're easier to defend because of 1 & 2 - which puts us at a distinct disadvantage

Meh this wasn't a problem for us when healthy.

We do not have the players/roster to depend so heavily on the Dre/RJ PnR
As a roll man Dre is not prime Tyson Chandler or DeAndre Jordan

Drummond is better than those guy in the pnr because he is a goat level offensive rebounder who has a strong gravitational pull on defenses, its his only positive on the court really.

As a point man RJ is not CP3 or Harden

and he doesn't need to be.

As a supporting cast we don't have 3 x 35+% 3 point bombers around the Dre/RJ PnR
Given that we have 2 other guys that are the equal of or BETTER than RJ we should not be marginalizing those 2 in order to run plays for arguably 2 worse options!
I'm arguing that running the PnR is NOT suited to our roster & fails to best utilize the abilities of arguably our 2 best offensive players

The PNr Suits our team just fine Avery and Tobias are opportunistic scorers they are best in lower usage roles doing what they do best. IDK why people want them to do stuff outside they're skillset.

When you watch GS you don't see endless PnRs where 1 guy is charged with creating the offense: you see bodies in motion, multiple handlers, multiple screens...

The Spurs did the same with Duncan, Diaw, Leonard, Manu, Parker...Euro style lol

Yes the talent level & BBIQ level is on a different level but there's numerous examples of college and other pro teams running similar offenses over the years.

Bodies in motion is much harder to defend...

The PnR should be the bail out option, not the primary

Of course not all PnRs are equal - some are run in order to get RJ or Dre a bucket and then some are run as a bit of a distraction before we get to the actual play.

Our roster isn't like GS or the Spur you got to play to your strengths.
If you think the pnr should be a "bailout" you trippin'

[mattao313]

Respectfully, I disagree, at least to some extent. If Reggie can play his best, then you're surely going to want to work that PNR with Drummond. Still, with Bradley, Galloway, Johnson, and perhaps Kennard the Pistons will have sufficient versatility to run a larger motion offense. I apologize if this sounds hopeful.

I never said you can't run motion or what have you but the offense will be built around Reggie and Drummond cause they have the most pull on a defense. Avery and Tobais don't have the skill set to be #1 options thats all I'm saying.

And RJ & Dre do?

You're saying we should build the offense around 2 lesser guys because our 2 best offensive weapons can't thrive in PnR!

I'm saying scrap the heavy PnR scheme in order to implement a offensive system that allows AB & Tobias to thrive!

Dude are just trying not to understand? In ANY offense they aren't #1 guys.

Drummond and Reggie both together can collapse a defense consistently, Avery and Tobais can not.

[Pharaoh]

Methinks you don't understand it yourself mate.

1 - Reggie IS miscast...not concerned with any others, only our team

RJs skillset is more suited to a 4th quarter gunner as opposed to the #1 option

The fact you asked would I play Reggie in Avery's role says a lot: they're 2 completely different offensive weapons that excel at different things!

2 - the PnR of Dre & RJ should not be the meat & potatoes of the offense!

3 - it was a problem! We were barely .500 with Dre & RJ picking & rolling us into the playoffs.

We didn't have AB then and Harris hadn't had a training camp with us at that point though.

You gotta change the system somewhat when adding new players

Dre is a better roll man than prime Tyson Chandler? Or DeAndre Jordan?

No, he isnt!

RJ needs to be a much better PG than he is! Can't miss so many passes off the PnR - every second is vital

Tobias & Avery are opportunistic scorers?

What?

Better in low usage doing what they do best?

Yep, we're done here