When will SVG think like this?

[vic]

http://www.espn.com/espn/feature/story/_/page/enterpriseWarriors/how-steve-kerr-revolutionized-golden-state-warriors-offense-charcuterie-board?sf121122549=1

It's no secret the best offenses are the ones that pass the most. Why does it seem like our offense is stuck in isolationism?

[DetroitPistons]

SVG is always talking about moving the ball. I get the impression the players are the ones getting stuck in the rut of iso ball but idk.

[hoophabit]

Can’t say I recall SVG saying they moved the ball too much or that we needed more isos.

[whitehops]

It's no secret the best offenses are the ones that pass the most. Why does it seem like our offense is stuck in isolationism?

that's not true though. the cavs, raps and rockets all had top 6 offenses last year and were all bottom 5 in passes per game. the sixers passed the most times per game last year and had the worst offense.


and it even says in the article, you don't want to pass the ball simply for the sake of passing the ball. you just end up passing the ball in non-threatening situations then and puts little pressure on the defense. example: despite the rockets averaging the third least passes per game, they were tied for second most assists per game.


at the end of the day you have to use the personnel you have and play to their strengths. it would make no sense to use andre drummond like draymond green, reggie or ish like curry, harris like durant, etc. the warriors also have a ton of talent so it's not a fair comparison. it's not even one of his strengths but you could run durant off screens like curry or klay and he would still be more effective than when we do the same for avery bradley, our best option off screens.

[Pharaoh]

It's not just passing - it's cutting, setting screens, moving off the ball...with a purpose.

I lol at people saying Kerr revolutionized anything. What he did was graft from multiple successful systems. It's still impressive but not revolutionary.

The idea is simple enough for any team to follow...and I've stated repeatedly that the vast majority of our roster would be better served in a system like it.

That said ain't nobody beating the Warriors playing like the Warriors - you're trying to duplicate what they do with inferior talent

What all good coaches should do is implement a system that maximises their particular roster. The Dre/RJ PnR doesn't do it!

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[Billl]

Bleh - the warriors system isn't going to work for anyone else. The team has essentially unlimited range. Honestly, if RJ started taking "open" 30 ft 3's, this place would go insane. They also have multi-skilled guys at every position and the can all pass, drive or shoot. If you had dre trying to make plays from the top of the key for us, we'd be a disaster.

That's not to say our ball movement or player movement doesn't need improvement. AB got more backcuts in the preseason than KCP did all year. And it's not the pick and roll that limits that. Almost no teams defend that honest against us anymore. Dre draws a ton of attention on his rolls and the only thing we consistently have gotten out of that is RJ drives and the occasional corner 3. We just haven't had guy with the BB IQ to actually make teams pay for that. It's a read and react play for everyone, not just the pg. You have to see the gap opening and dive into it.

[whitehops]

That's not to say our ball movement or player movement doesn't need improvement. AB got more backcuts in the preseason than KCP did all year. And it's not the pick and roll that limits that. Almost no teams defend that honest against us anymore. Dre draws a ton of attention on his rolls and the only thing we consistently have gotten out of that is RJ drives and the occasional corner 3. We just haven't had guy with the BB IQ to actually make teams pay for that. It's a read and react play for everyone, not just the pg. You have to see the gap opening and dive into it.

Bradley is coming from a team that has some of the most passing/off-ball movement, hopefully his awareness on his cuts rubs off on some of the other guys.

[Uncle Mxy]

Last year, we had precisely one guy -- Bullock -- who shot the three at above league average. You can pass the ball around all you like, set people up for good shots all you like, but you're limited if you don't have the tools to make the shots. The only one really taking perimeter shots he shouldn't outside the offense was Morris, and he's gone.

Heck, forget 3P shots -- we've got our two physically strongest guys for getting to the low-post as part of a structured offense -- Dre and Stanley -- not being able to convert with any real efficiency. Our only real weapon there is Harris, and he's above-average, not stupendously elite.

I'd feel more pity for Stan the coach if Stan the GM didn't choose all the assets.

[The Penguin]

The playing like the Warriors is what team should strive for and it can help a whole become better than the sum of it's parts, however it requires the right pieces. As Uncle Mxy said, last year the team didn't have shooters. That should be mildly better, but it's fitting in new pieces. Reggie also is an ISO player at heart and we don't have quality secondary play makers. You can find open shots in and offense, but ultimately they are only as good as the guy taking the shot.

The idea of the playing like the Warriors is great in theory, then you realize they've got 4 of the top ~20 players in the league playing that way, you simply can't hope to come close to that with the given talent. Ultimately the Cavs have played like that leading up to the Finals, but the times they've given the Warriors trouble is when they muck up the game and go heavy with Lebron / Kyrie ISO / P&R.

[BadMofoPimp]

As much as everyone on RealGM believes that their teams should be like the Warriors, there will never be another team like that. Each team has its own identity and if they work on their craft well enough and build their team chemistry for a few years, then a good team will force other teams to bend to their style of play. That is what you see for example with the Cavs, Celtics, Grizzlies, Raptors or especially the Spurs. They don't play anything like the Warriors but have had years of success by forcing teams to respect their style of play.

[Pharaoh]

As much as everyone on RealGM believes that their teams should be like the Warriors, there will never be another team like that. Each team has its own identity and if they work on their craft well enough and build their team chemistry for a few years, then a good team will force other teams to bend to their style of play. That is what you see for example with the Cavs, Celtics, Grizzlies, Raptors or especially the Spurs. They don't play anything like the Warriors but have had years of success by forcing teams to respect their style of play.

Exactly!

I'm a firm believer that in order to have a legit chance at beating the Warriors you need outstanding team defense, a top flight big man in the paint to dominate the boards, shot takers and play makers surrounding him up and down the roster

Trying to beat the Warriors at their own game is the dumbest thing I've ever seen - and numerous teams are attempting exactly that!



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[BadMofoPimp]

As much as everyone on RealGM believes that their teams should be like the Warriors, there will never be another team like that. Each team has its own identity and if they work on their craft well enough and build their team chemistry for a few years, then a good team will force other teams to bend to their style of play. That is what you see for example with the Cavs, Celtics, Grizzlies, Raptors or especially the Spurs. They don't play anything like the Warriors but have had years of success by forcing teams to respect their style of play.

Exactly!

I'm a firm believer that in order to have a legit chance at beating the Warriors you need outstanding team defense, a top flight big man in the paint to dominate the boards, shot takers and play makers surrounding him up and down the roster

Trying to beat the Warriors at their own game is the dumbest thing I've ever seen - and numerous teams are attempting exactly that!



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I bet the 2004 Pistons could have given them a run for the money.

[Pharaoh]

As much as everyone on RealGM believes that their teams should be like the Warriors, there will never be another team like that. Each team has its own identity and if they work on their craft well enough and build their team chemistry for a few years, then a good team will force other teams to bend to their style of play. That is what you see for example with the Cavs, Celtics, Grizzlies, Raptors or especially the Spurs. They don't play anything like the Warriors but have had years of success by forcing teams to respect their style of play.

Exactly!

I'm a firm believer that in order to have a legit chance at beating the Warriors you need outstanding team defense, a top flight big man in the paint to dominate the boards, shot takers and play makers surrounding him up and down the roster

Trying to beat the Warriors at their own game is the dumbest thing I've ever seen - and numerous teams are attempting exactly that!



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I bet the 2004 Pistons could have given them a run for the money.

Absolutely!



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[DCintheD]

As much as everyone on RealGM believes that their teams should be like the Warriors, there will never be another team like that. Each team has its own identity and if they work on their craft well enough and build their team chemistry for a few years, then a good team will force other teams to bend to their style of play. That is what you see for example with the Cavs, Celtics, Grizzlies, Raptors or especially the Spurs. They don't play anything like the Warriors but have had years of success by forcing teams to respect their style of play.

Exactly!

I'm a firm believer that in order to have a legit chance at beating the Warriors you need outstanding team defense, a top flight big man in the paint to dominate the boards, shot takers and play makers surrounding him up and down the roster

Trying to beat the Warriors at their own game is the dumbest thing I've ever seen - and numerous teams are attempting exactly that!



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I bet the 2004 Pistons could have given them a run for the money.

04 pistons would dominate a lot of super teams. the fact that the NBA changed their rules after them says enough.

[whitehops]

i think it's hard to overstate how insane it is that in an era which thrives off spacing and 3 point shooting, the warriors have the two best shooters in nba history and added the most efficient volume scorer in the nba before (before curry came along).

one of the things that gives me hope is that the nba is catching up in terms of shooting ability. before last season, there was only 5* players who had made three or more 3 pointers a game (ray allen x3, peja stojakovic, damian lillard, steph curry and klay thompson). *dennis scott and george mcccloud hit three 3's a game when the 3 point line was closer*

last year there were 7 players that hit three or more 3's a game (kemba walker, kyle lowry, eric gordon, james harden, isaiah thomas, steph curry and klay thompson). lillard and beal hit 2.9. all of these players except harden hit them better than league average rate too.


curry and klay are still the kings at shooting from deep (shooting 41%+ on insane volume compare to 37-40% shooting) but more guys hitting threes at that volume means the playing field will level slowly.

[mattao313]

Play to your strengths ours ain't warriors ball, you cant beat the warriors playing their game.

[vic]

Why did it take 4 years for SVG to figure out pick & roll isn't the only way to play basketball?

This was what we wanted all last year!

"The Pistons aren't accustomed to playing with so much movement. Stanley Johnson was a catalyst. After going scoreless in 18 minutes Monday against the Sixers, Johnson picked up 15 points in 36 minutes and was involved in the offense.

"In the past it's been give the ball to our point guard, run a pick and roll, everybody else stand in the corner," Van Gundy said. "No. 1, it's a lot of pressure on one guy, No. 2, I don't think it's enough pressure on the defense. We're trying to play with more movement."

http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2017/10/fast-breaking_pistons_want_to.html#incart_river_index

This is basketball 101 I've been saying for 3 years, to make the defense work!

[vic]

Maybe both Stanley and Bradley have been the catalysts of this change that has been LOOONG overdue.

""We went back to the drawing board," Bradley said. "We focused on moving the ball and moving around, making the defense work, and it showed tonight. We trust each other. It also helps when you're making shots, but it was good the way we played. We have to continue to play that way."

http://www.mlive.com/pistons/index.ssf/2017/10/fast-breaking_pistons_want_to.html#incart_river_index

[vic]

In order for this team to be consistent SVG has to be consistent

Tobias Harris has to get 20 shots a game
Ellenson has to get 20 minutes a game
RJ can't dribble for more than 3 seconds at a time until the 4th quarter
Everybody else has to focuse on defense, 3s, and dunks.

3 is more than 2
Passing is faster than dribbling
We only have 4 shot creators: Tobias, Ellenson, RJ, Kennard
Everybody else move, cut, run the fast break, and shoot open shots

If SVG can coach like this and be consistent with his coaching effort it will be a good year.

It's all on him I don't want to hear him blaming the players for anything he has all the depth he needs to get it done.

[Kilo]

How was the ball movement when Reggie was in the game vs Ish in the game? Last season the offense had much better sharing and movement when Reggie was hurt to start the season. Reggie seems locked into the Reggie/Dre PnR show.

Given our depth we should look to exploit it by playing very high energy, face paced basketball. Be very high pressure on defense and run on offense. When we get tired we just sub in next man up. We might not match up well starter vs starter but our bench guy is probably better than their bench guy and our 3rd stringer almost certainly is.