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I think we can all agree, SVG is a moron when it comes to lineups. He wins game one and decides to bench all the players who performed.

Let's lay out the proper starting five and bench for our beloved tub of lard.

Starters:
Dre
Ellenson (yeah I said it. He scored 13 in the opener, and Leuer is trash)
Harris
AB
Reggie (hopefully Bledsoe in a week???)

Bench:
Tolliver/Moreland
SJ
Kennard
Galloway
Ish

Dre 33 - Bobo 15

Bobo is a soon to be expiring contract so we should be looking to boost his value by playing him against 2nd units and slow the pace to a crawl, using him in the high/low post as opposed to PnRs

Harris 20 - Tolliver 15 - Henry 13

Provides different looks with Tolliver & Harris while giving Henry time against 2nd units where his shooting will help space the floor for Bobo

SJ 28 - Harris 10 - AB 10

AB handles 3s in small ball line ups until Bullock takes that spot

AB 20 - Jedi 18 - Galloway 10

Lots of different looks

RJ 26 - Ish 22

Against 2nd units:

Bobo - #1 option
Henry - spacer
AB - defender
Jedi - spacer
RJ/Ish - creator

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that starting line up has only one person that can play solid defense and that second unit has not shot blocking.

DET_Athletics wrote:that starting line up has only one person that can play solid defense and that second unit has not shot blocking.

Like SJ's fouling has beena defensive game changer so far.

Trying to brjng scoring which is what we need.

PistonsSince85 wrote:

DET_Athletics wrote:that starting line up has only one person that can play solid defense and that second unit has not shot blocking.

Like SJ's fouling has beena defensive game changer so far.

Trying to brjng scoring which is what we need.

Our current starting line up features FOUR guys that can all get 15-30 every day.

Scoring is not the problem.

I'll go so far as saying the make up of the roster is not the problem.

IMHO SVGs offensive structure is the problem. But I've said that for 12 months and nothing has really changed.

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bench Leuer, play some "4 guards and Drummond" and see what happens.

Yeah, SVG should go the LAL route and give Leuer the Luol Deng treatment. He won't, but he definitely should.

Granted the current regime didn't bring in Deng, so they aren't married to him. But still, Deng is a worlds better player than Leuer ever thought about being, and Deng makes a ton more $ to boot. Magic can see there is no reason to have a player that doesn't fit with the current or long term vision of the team being in the rotation simply because he's expensive.

Leuer is not a better player than Tolliver, and he isn't a better fit than Tolliver either. Leuer also isn't nearly a good enough player to justify playing him over Ellenson thus holding back his potential development. If Henry ends up sucking, he sucks but the team is better off knowing for sure with actual real game data and performance to go off of. Its not like Leuer is providing much in the way of leading to wins anyways.

I get the notion that if Leuer doesn't play his trade "value" drops, but to that I say he has no trade value anyways. Nobody wants Jon Leuer the player, nobody wants Jon Leuer the contract, and nobody damn sure wants Jon Leuer the contracted player.

Sit him and stabilize the rotation. If he sulks, who cares, he's Jon freaking Leuer.

thesack12 wrote:Yeah, SVG should go the LAL route and give Leuer the Luol Deng treatment. He won't, but he definitely should.

Granted the current regime didn't bring in Deng, so they aren't married to him. But still, Deng is a worlds better player than Leuer ever thought about being, and Deng makes a ton more $ to boot. Magic can see there is no reason to have a player that doesn't fit with the current or long term vision of the team being in the rotation simply because he's expensive.

Leuer is not a better player than Tolliver, and he isn't a better fit than Tolliver either. Leuer also isn't nearly a good enough player to justify playing him over Ellenson thus holding back his potential development. If Henry ends up sucking, he sucks but the team is better off knowing for sure with actual real game data and performance to go off of. Its not like Leuer is providing much in the way of leading to wins anyways.

I get the notion that if Leuer doesn't play his trade "value" drops, but to that I say he has no trade value anyways. Nobody wants Jon Leuer the player, nobody wants Jon Leuer the contract, and nobody damn sure wants Jon Leuer the contracted player.

Sit him and stabilize the rotation. If he sulks, who cares, he's Jon freaking Leuer.

Not really Deng was god awful for the Lakers guy put up 7ppg on a 47ts last season

Compared to a player that put up 10 and 5 on 55ts last season.

Pharaoh wrote:

PistonsSince85 wrote:

DET_Athletics wrote:that starting line up has only one person that can play solid defense and that second unit has not shot blocking.

Like SJ's fouling has beena defensive game changer so far.

Trying to brjng scoring which is what we need.

Our current starting line up features FOUR guys that can all get 15-30 every day. 7

Scoring is not the problem.

I'll go so far as saying the make up of the roster is not the problem.

IMHO SVGs offensive structure is the problem. But I've said that for 12 months and nothing has really changed.

Sent from my SM-J110F using RealGM mobile app

After watching that Philly game I would say that is true as well. We got a lot of issues.

The most bizarre thing to me is that we have RJ as the primary, AB & SJ can act as secondaries and Tobias can hit from everywhere...

Yet we continue to play this dinosaur PnR stuff that once again marginalizes Tobias & AB in order to placate RJ, Dre & SVGs own ego

How SVG views the game and how he wants it to be played should have no bearing on how the Pistons play!

In his mind he has his system & would have a "perfect" roster to utilise in it.

I'm sure some of us do

THIS ain't it!

So you change your system to match your roster. It's really not that hard

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Start Kennard

mattao313 wrote:

thesack12 wrote:Yeah, SVG should go the LAL route and give Leuer the Luol Deng treatment. He won't, but he definitely should.

Granted the current regime didn't bring in Deng, so they aren't married to him. But still, Deng is a worlds better player than Leuer ever thought about being, and Deng makes a ton more $ to boot. Magic can see there is no reason to have a player that doesn't fit with the current or long term vision of the team being in the rotation simply because he's expensive.

Leuer is not a better player than Tolliver, and he isn't a better fit than Tolliver either. Leuer also isn't nearly a good enough player to justify playing him over Ellenson thus holding back his potential development. If Henry ends up sucking, he sucks but the team is better off knowing for sure with actual real game data and performance to go off of. Its not like Leuer is providing much in the way of leading to wins anyways.

I get the notion that if Leuer doesn't play his trade "value" drops, but to that I say he has no trade value anyways. Nobody wants Jon Leuer the player, nobody wants Jon Leuer the contract, and nobody damn sure wants Jon Leuer the contracted player.

Sit him and stabilize the rotation. If he sulks, who cares, he's Jon freaking Leuer.

Not really Deng was god awful for the Lakers guy put up 7ppg on a 47ts last season

Compared to a player that put up 10 and 5 on 55ts last season.

Eh, sure Deng is past his prime at this point. However it could be argued that he could still serve a purpose to a team as a defensive specialist, if for no other reason.

Either way, benching Luol Deng says something. Dude made an all rookie team, made an all defensive team, and is a 2 time all star. Point is, he has some pedigree around the league. Jon Leuer was barely a rotation player prior to coming to Detroit, and we are seeing his prime right now, which leaves a whole lot to be desired. Other than chasing the sunken cost fallacy, their isn't much of a reason to keep him in the rotation right now.

thesack12 wrote:

mattao313 wrote:

thesack12 wrote:Yeah, SVG should go the LAL route and give Leuer the Luol Deng treatment. He won't, but he definitely should.

Granted the current regime didn't bring in Deng, so they aren't married to him. But still, Deng is a worlds better player than Leuer ever thought about being, and Deng makes a ton more $ to boot. Magic can see there is no reason to have a player that doesn't fit with the current or long term vision of the team being in the rotation simply because he's expensive.

Leuer is not a better player than Tolliver, and he isn't a better fit than Tolliver either. Leuer also isn't nearly a good enough player to justify playing him over Ellenson thus holding back his potential development. If Henry ends up sucking, he sucks but the team is better off knowing for sure with actual real game data and performance to go off of. Its not like Leuer is providing much in the way of leading to wins anyways.

I get the notion that if Leuer doesn't play his trade "value" drops, but to that I say he has no trade value anyways. Nobody wants Jon Leuer the player, nobody wants Jon Leuer the contract, and nobody damn sure wants Jon Leuer the contracted player.

Sit him and stabilize the rotation. If he sulks, who cares, he's Jon freaking Leuer.

Not really Deng was god awful for the Lakers guy put up 7ppg on a 47ts last season

Compared to a player that put up 10 and 5 on 55ts last season.

Eh, sure Deng is past his prime at this point. However it could be argued that he could still serve a purpose to a team as a defensive specialist, if for no other reason.

Either way, benching Luol Deng says something. Dude made an all rookie team, made an all defensive team, and is a 2 time all star. Point is, he has some pedigree around the league. Jon Leuer was barely a rotation player prior to coming to Detroit, and we are seeing his prime right now, which leaves a whole lot to be desired. Other than chasing the sunken cost fallacy, their isn't much of a reason to keep him in the rotation right now.

Deng is terrible now he fell off a cliff in play. Leuer isn't even a bad player people here just use him and Jackson as scapegoats.

mattao313 wrote:

thesack12 wrote:

mattao313 wrote:Not really Deng was god awful for the Lakers guy put up 7ppg on a 47ts last season

Compared to a player that put up 10 and 5 on 55ts last season.

Eh, sure Deng is past his prime at this point. However it could be argued that he could still serve a purpose to a team as a defensive specialist, if for no other reason.

Either way, benching Luol Deng says something. Dude made an all rookie team, made an all defensive team, and is a 2 time all star. Point is, he has some pedigree around the league. Jon Leuer was barely a rotation player prior to coming to Detroit, and we are seeing his prime right now, which leaves a whole lot to be desired. Other than chasing the sunken cost fallacy, their isn't much of a reason to keep him in the rotation right now.

Deng is terrible now he fell off a cliff in play. Leuer isn't even a bad player people here just use him and Jackson as scapegoats.

Leuer doesn't do any one thing well. Overall he's a poor defender because he's too weak to defend the interior and not athletic enough to defend the perimeter. Offensively, he doesn't stretch the floor, doesn't have a reliable post game, isn't a great screen setter, and isn't overly mobile off the ball.

Maybe its just my own opinion, but if you subtract Jon Leuer from this team, I doubt you would be missing anything.

Right now as it pertains to the backup PF position, Ellenson's development should be paramount. Sure its entirely possible Henry flops, but he's one of the very few sources of potential upside on this team. His skillset has potential to be harnessed and crafted into something useful. It makes little to no sense keeping him chained up, yielding to Jon Leuer.