Its December, we still Suck, Game plan?

[Blkbrd671]

Having watched this Roster for 3-4 seasons, its become clear that its not working.

We can grasp onto the little glimmers of hope that we'll turn it around but realistically we've all seen this story every season with RJ and Dre.

To be clear, I don't think RJ or Dre or SVG is the problem, but rather the combination of the 3. SVG continues to try to mold RJ and Dre into players that fit his system but whether it be Dre, RJ, the system, the changing NBA era of small ball etc. Bottomline is it simply won't work. For playoffs, maybe, but for future contention, i think we have enough of a sample size to say no.


Having said that, What is the game plan?

Fortunately we have a ton of assets thx to SVG the GM


1.) Keep LK,HE,SJ
2.) Unless a franchise changing return is coming back, you keep Dre

3.) Trade everybody else for assets or players that enable us to acquire "next tier" talent
4.) Find a f* PG that actually wants to be a PG


*Side Note: I also believe this would , not solve, but assist our attendance problem. I think part of the problem is that no ones excited about this team because we've seen this same sh*. You bring in new talent and let the younger talent "show out", it'll at least bring some intrigue back.

[bstein14]

Drink more... watch less... hope ownership makes a change in philosophy of how to build a contendor.

[vic]

If I'm Gores I make SVG hire a new coach.

If I'm SVG I bench Leuer & Boban and play Ellenson and Tolliver.

[MotownMadness]

We've just spent most of our money on a couple of softies. Need to just let the year play out at this point and get some trade value up.

Valenti was right when he was telling SVG over the summer Drummond will define his time here and it won't end well. Drummond still has his positives out there especially getting his FTs right but is just way to expensive overall cause he just doesn't have it mentally to really want it.

[Kilo]

Play out the season. Restrict SVG from trading 1st rounders, Ellenson, Kennard for ROS.

Fire SVG in off-season if things not turned around.

[Blkbrd671]

We've just spent most of our money on a couple of softies. Need to just let the year play out at this point and get some trade value up.

Valenti was right when he was telling SVG over the summer Drummond will define his time here and it won't end well. Drummond still has his positives out there especially getting his FTs right but is just way to expensive overall cause he just doesn't have it mentally to really want it.

I put more blame on RJ. Dre's attitude and mentality is drastically different this season from last. Granted its a small sample, but overall i think Dre has taken the right steps towards being a better player. For me , its RJ, and the way we "rely on him". SVG consistently calls his number and while "statistically" he may be our best option, the reality is our team loses interest in that sort of offense , including dre.

[ByeByeDre]

The way Stan has done it, to truly tear it down would take three years. He spent it up, we stunk and lost a lot of money last year, and ultimately we dropped two starters for Avery Bradley, who is an expiring. And here we are.

The problem to me is that our 5th-14th players are all about the same. After the opening night win, Stan talked about how it was a difficult decision making Tolliver inactive over Boban, Henry and Moreland. Is there another team in the league that stresses over that decision? Oh, and by the way, Tolliver played most of the crunch-time minutes last night versus Philly!

We need some 2 for 1 trades to unclog the jam. Or just dump a couple players for some picks or something.

One more thing - this roster is still one of the younger in the league. Hard to believe but true! In the grand scheme of things there are only four or five teams competing for a championship for the next three years anyway. So do we trade Harris for some 21 year olds and draft picks? This seems like a league problem as well.

[Pharaoh]

Having watched this Roster for 3-4 seasons, its become clear that its not working.

We can grasp onto the little glimmers of hope that we'll turn it around but realistically we've all seen this story every season with RJ and Dre.

To be clear, I don't think RJ or Dre or SVG is the problem, but rather the combination of the 3. SVG continues to try to mold RJ and Dre into players that fit his system but whether it be Dre, RJ, the system, the changing NBA era of small ball etc. Bottomline is it simply won't work. For playoffs, maybe, but for future contention, i think we have enough of a sample size to say no.


Having said that, What is the game plan?

Fortunately we have a ton of assets thx to SVG the GM


1.) Keep LK,HE,SJ
2.) Unless a franchise changing return is coming back, you keep Dre

3.) Trade everybody else for assets or players that enable us to acquire "next tier" talent
4.) Find a f* PG that actually wants to be a PG


*Side Note: I also believe this would , not solve, but assist our attendance problem. I think part of the problem is that no ones excited about this team because we've seen this same sh*. You bring in new talent and let the younger talent "show out", it'll at least bring some intrigue back.

Echo?! See my post in the Embarrassing Turnout thread

The game plan should be to trade RJ & Jon for contracts that expire after next season



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[Pharaoh]

The way Stan has done it, to truly tear it down would take three years. He spent it up, we stunk and lost a lot of money last year, and ultimately we dropped two starters for Avery Bradley, who is an expiring. And here we are.

The problem to me is that our 5th-14th players are all about the same. After the opening night win, Stan talked about how it was a difficult decision making Tolliver inactive over Boban, Henry and Moreland. Is there another team in the league that stresses over that decision? Oh, and by the way, Tolliver played most of the crunch-time minutes last night versus Philly!

We need some 2 for 1 trades to unclog the jam. Or just dump a couple players for some picks or something.

One more thing - this roster is still one of the younger in the league. Hard to believe but true! In the grand scheme of things there are only four or five teams competing for a championship for the next three years anyway. So do we trade Harris for some 21 year olds and draft picks? This seems like a league problem as well.

To the bold:

That's not true.

Other than Dre & rookie deals every guy on the roster could be gone in 2 years IF we traded RJ & Jon for contracts that expire at that point.

I believe I used Koufus as the guy to get for Jon Boy and Bledsoe for RJ with minimal picks attached

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[bstein14]

The big thing is though, us with capspace means almost nothing unless you find a true gem about to break out (like Joe D did with Wallace and Billups). We are going to have a really hard time even attracting Tier 2 guys. We need to be bad for about 2 years and trade off any players with real value for other assets and shorter contracts. During that long rebuild we really needed a year or two of being bottom 3 instead of always drafting 7 8 9.

[Blkbrd671]

The way Stan has done it, to truly tear it down would take three years. He spent it up, we stunk and lost a lot of money last year, and ultimately we dropped two starters for Avery Bradley, who is an expiring. And here we are.

The problem to me is that our 5th-14th players are all about the same. After the opening night win, Stan talked about how it was a difficult decision making Tolliver inactive over Boban, Henry and Moreland. Is there another team in the league that stresses over that decision? Oh, and by the way, Tolliver played most of the crunch-time minutes last night versus Philly!

We need some 2 for 1 trades to unclog the jam. Or just dump a couple players for some picks or something.

One more thing - this roster is still one of the younger in the league. Hard to believe but true! In the grand scheme of things there are only four or five teams competing for a championship for the next three years anyway. So do we trade Harris for some 21 year olds and draft picks? This seems like a league problem as well.

?????

Other than Dre, there isn't 1 contract on our team that I'd consider "over-valued" maybe "leurs"?? Even as inconsistent as RJ is , his contracts FV if he continues to work his way back from injury.

We could easily trade the majority of our roster and net positive value.

[ByeByeDre]

Drummond and Reggie make 45 million combined in 19-20.

[ByeByeDre]

The way Stan has done it, to truly tear it down would take three years. He spent it up, we stunk and lost a lot of money last year, and ultimately we dropped two starters for Avery Bradley, who is an expiring. And here we are.

The problem to me is that our 5th-14th players are all about the same. After the opening night win, Stan talked about how it was a difficult decision making Tolliver inactive over Boban, Henry and Moreland. Is there another team in the league that stresses over that decision? Oh, and by the way, Tolliver played most of the crunch-time minutes last night versus Philly!

We need some 2 for 1 trades to unclog the jam. Or just dump a couple players for some picks or something.

One more thing - this roster is still one of the younger in the league. Hard to believe but true! In the grand scheme of things there are only four or five teams competing for a championship for the next three years anyway. So do we trade Harris for some 21 year olds and draft picks? This seems like a league problem as well.

?????

Other than Dre, there isn't 1 contract on our team that I'd consider "over-valued" maybe "leurs"?? Even as inconsistent as RJ is , his contracts FV if he continues to work his way back from injury.

We could easily trade the majority of our roster and net positive value.

As I said, 2 for 1 trades

[Blkbrd671]

The way Stan has done it, to truly tear it down would take three years. He spent it up, we stunk and lost a lot of money last year, and ultimately we dropped two starters for Avery Bradley, who is an expiring. And here we are.

The problem to me is that our 5th-14th players are all about the same. After the opening night win, Stan talked about how it was a difficult decision making Tolliver inactive over Boban, Henry and Moreland. Is there another team in the league that stresses over that decision? Oh, and by the way, Tolliver played most of the crunch-time minutes last night versus Philly!

We need some 2 for 1 trades to unclog the jam. Or just dump a couple players for some picks or something.

One more thing - this roster is still one of the younger in the league. Hard to believe but true! In the grand scheme of things there are only four or five teams competing for a championship for the next three years anyway. So do we trade Harris for some 21 year olds and draft picks? This seems like a league problem as well.

?????

Other than Dre, there isn't 1 contract on our team that I'd consider "over-valued" maybe "leurs"?? Even as inconsistent as RJ is , his contracts FV if he continues to work his way back from injury.

We could easily trade the majority of our roster and net positive value.

As I said, 2 for 1 trades

you said 3 years, this could easily be done in 1 season

[Pharaoh]

The big thing is though, us with capspace means almost nothing unless you find a true gem about to break out (like Joe D did with Wallace and Billups). We are going to have a really hard time even attracting Tier 2 guys. We need to be bad for about 2 years and trade off any players with real value for other assets and shorter contracts. During that long rebuild we really needed a year or two of being bottom 3 instead of always drafting 7 8 9.

I'm not interested in crunching the numbers but:

Dre
SJ
Henry
Jedi
AB or asset attained by trading him

As the only dudes on our cap surely leaves a truckload of space

Even throwing in Tobias & Bledsoe's Bird Rights we should have ample space

It's a win now, win later move full of upside

IF Dre improves his awareness

IF SJ, Henry or Luke balls out

IF Harris keeps trending upward

Then maybe we can put ourselves in the room to sign a Horford kinda guy, a real difference maker.

IF we don't move RJ & Jon to make the expirings match up then we're doomed to this cycle of mediocrity for a long time cause we'll never have the assets to trade OR the space to sign anyone of note



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[ByeByeDre]

?????

Other than Dre, there isn't 1 contract on our team that I'd consider "over-valued" maybe "leurs"?? Even as inconsistent as RJ is , his contracts FV if he continues to work his way back from injury.

We could easily trade the majority of our roster and net positive value.

As I said, 2 for 1 trades

you said 3 years, this could easily be done in 1 season

Heck, you can shuffle around lawn chairs in less than that. But meaningful upgrades won’t happen until you have expirings to offer. The only meaningful expiring we have is Bradley, and we lost two starters to get him.

[Blkbrd671]

As I said, 2 for 1 trades

you said 3 years, this could easily be done in 1 season

Heck, you can shuffle around lawn chairs in less than that. But meaningful upgrades won’t happen until you have expirings to offer. The only meaningful expiring we have is Bradley, and we lost two starters to get him.

your talking about a retool vs a rebuild.

and a players contracts value varies from team to team based on what they are trying to accomplish. The majority of contracts we have are at worst FV or can net us expiring.

The goal ultimately is to build around new core pieces, and it could take up to 2-3 years for them to become "Ready", but that is assumed any time you say rebuild. If your talking about acquiring assets to build around the new core, it can be done this season with a good return on the majority of contracts on our roster. Waiting on the hope of "better return" is a losing strategy unless your getting absolutely sh* offers.

I really don't see how we couldn't at worst we couldn't get fair value

[ByeByeDre]

you said 3 years, this could easily be done in 1 season

Heck, you can shuffle around lawn chairs in less than that. But meaningful upgrades won’t happen until you have expirings to offer. The only meaningful expiring we have is Bradley, and we lost two starters to get him.

your talking about a retool vs a rebuild.

and a players contracts value varies from team to team based on what they are trying to accomplish. The majority of contracts we have are at worst FV or can net us expiring.

The goal ultimately is to build around new core pieces, and it could take up to 2-3 years for them to become "Ready", but that is assumed any time you say rebuild. If your talking about acquiring assets to build around the new core, it can be done this season with a good return on the majority of contracts on our roster. Waiting on the hope of "better return" is a losing strategy unless your getting absolutely sh* offers.

I really don't see how we couldn't at worst we couldn't get fair value

So the sales pitch goes from “We’re back downtown” to “Come see Johnson, Ellenson and Kennard develop”? I think less fans would go see that.

As bad as we might be in December, the reality is that unless Stan is fired, the current plan continues. Because the East is that bad. Next year is more realistic to pitch Stan and go with a new direction - at least there are expirings in play at that time.

We haven’t fleeced Orlando in a little while, how about Bradley for Fournier? Good young player to slide into the three, then KCP can...... wait a minute.....

[ChuckVanBrown]

At least we didn't max out KCP, then we'd be truly stuck. I think this team can put up a winning season, but if not, they can at least dangle AB at the deadline to a contender, and hopefully get a decent return. He's our biggest trade asset. The only way RJ increases his value is if he proves to be healthy and we start winning. In that case, we might as well just keep him, as most teams already have a solid starting PG, and the bad teams won't give up an asset for him.

We're in a tough spot, unfortunately. I'm fully on board with parting ways with SVG in the offseason if we fail to make the playoffs. The franchise is clearly focused on the playoffs, and I'm fine with that direction. But if they don't achieve that goal, I don't see the point in keeping SVG around for another season.

[Blkbrd671]

So the sales pitch goes from “We’re back downtown” to “Come see Johnson, Ellenson and Kennard develop”? I think less fans would go see that.

well the whole "Come down and see the same sh* you've seen for the past 4 seasons" is obviously not working.

As bad as we might be in December, the reality is that unless Stan is fired, the current plan continues. Because the East is that bad. Next year is more realistic to pitch Stan and go with a new direction - at least there are expirings in play at that time.

We haven’t fleeced Orlando in a little while, how about Bradley for Fournier? Good young player to slide into the three, then KCP can...... wait a minute.....

Not true, SVG is the GM and coach, and "if current plan continues", SVG is fired anyways.

While the east is that bad, we aren't exactly , that good.

Having expiring contracts probably get us a worst return and being that the assumption is that "we are a sh* team with this roster". Waiting a whole season is probably going to reduce teh value we could get.

Fournier is exactly the direction we don't need to go and definitely not at the expense of Bradley.