Pistons Off-Season

[Crymson]

Trading First rounders while we're still lottery bound is often just a bad decision from a desperate PBO.

I strongly doubt that Van Gundy was the driving force behind the Griffin trade.

[Laimbeer]

Some support among Hornet fans for Batum for Leuer, Galloway. and Ish.

[theBigLip]

I think we don't have a lot of options for next season. We need a healthy Reggie and a full training camp with our team together. I'm pretty sure that gets us into the playoffs and if everyone stays healthy, it also helps everyone's trade value.

[Crymson]

Some support among Hornet fans for Batum for Leuer, Galloway. and Ish.

Sounds great, if the goal is to making this already crippled organization even worse.

[Crymson]

I think we don't have a lot of options for next season. We need a healthy Reggie and a full training camp with our team together. I'm pretty sure that gets us into the playoffs and if everyone stays healthy, it also helps everyone's trade value.

Nothing about the playoffs is guaranteed for this team, and "If everyone stays healthy" is a big "if" for any team---and even bigger for this organization, including as it does a point guard with a degenerative knee condition and a maxed power forward whom one can count on to miss at least 20 games per season.

Nobody on the roster has much trade value. That's unlikely to change with a healthy season. Bullock, Johnson, and Ish are on the final seasons of their deals, Andre will have only one guaranteed season left after this one, Jackson will remain a middling point guard with major injury concerns, and nobody's likely to jump at the chance to pay Griffin more than $100 million on the final three seasons of his deal. Only Kennard and possibly Ellenson will have any significant value, and not much at that.

[Canadafan]

We have the non tax payers MLE which is $8.something correct?

Yes, but the Pistons will be capped at the projected $129m Apron if they use more than the Taxpayer MLE (about $5.7m). They're currently at around $118m. So spending the full MLE will mean having only about $2 million left over for anything else, and the Pistons will be left with literally zero flexibility beyond that; the hard cap cannot be exceeded under any circumstances.

We also have the TPE from the Clippers trade that can be used until next year when 1 year after the trade is done with. That's like $8.something. Correct?

$7 million. Again: if the team spends more than the taxpayer MLE, they'll be hard-capped and that trade exception will be effectively useless. Trade exceptions are in any event really only of use in trading a pick or some cash for a player; the Pistons have no space and no disposable assets, so this is largely worthless. At best, they can use it this summer to nab a player whom another team doesn't want anymore. That'd spare them the need to use the full MLE, but I doubt they'll get anyone particularly good in the bargain.

I'm just curious.... What are the dollar amounts of those exemptions and what's our best case scenario for adding 2 or possible 3 more players if we divvied up the MLE?

$7 million for the trade exception, a bit short of $9 million for the MLE (as projected). Our best-case scenario is bad. Barring some amazingly fancy trade footwork---somewhere in the realm of the near-impossible--the organization has no room to maneuver. Will the Pistons look for a viable backup center? A viable backup small forward? A viable STARTING small forward? Will they keep Tolliver, who's twice as good as Leuer? They can do two of the above, tops, and even that will require compromises.

We're in a bad situation. Very bad, and with no clear way out beyond simply waiting a few seasons.

I know most want to blow it up but it seems likely that SVG might be coming back and Gores might be willing to try and add to this roster to make a run here for a year or two.
Best case scenario here kids. Whatcha got?

Gores IS the cause of the current problems. In part because of the incompetents he's employed in the front office, but in part because he's a meddlesome fool who has no understanding of the NBA. He's been pushing a win-now agenda since he arrived, and that culminated with the Griffin trade---a titantically senseless move for which he was almost undoubtedly responsible.

The hilarious, predictable irony is that this organization would almost undoubtedly be in a much better position to win but for his impatience for it to win sooner.

I understand that you've embarked upon a rhetorical exercise here. But we're dealing with an organization that has lost its mind.

Thanks for detailed response. Prrtty much answers all my questions. I did read somewhere that the TPE doesn't count towards the cap or not until the last day of the year or something like that I dunno. Believe it was a pistonspowered article so doubtful that was correct.
Best case scenario then would be use the full MLE on Tyreke(miracle chance I know). We'd lose Tolliver and Ennis due to us not having any money left to re-sign them. But our bench would be Leuer Ellenson SJ Luke Ish.
Dre Blake Tyreke(or someone else at the MLE) Bullock RJ starters.
With health and a little luck we could be a #4 seed lol

[Crymson]

Thanks for detailed response. Prrtty much answers all my questions. I did read somewhere that the TPE doesn't count towards the cap or not until the last day of the year or something like that I dunno. Believe it was a pistonspowered article so doubtful that was correct.

All unused exceptions count against the cap for any team that is below the cap. The Pistons will be above the cap at offseason's start, so it's a moot issue.

Best case scenario then would be use the full MLE on Tyreke(miracle chance I know).

Pretty much zero chance, IMO. Same goes for Barton, who wouldn't fit anyway (he's far too undersized to play small forward). If they decide against seeking more money to play for a lower-tier team (or, if they're fortunate, the Lakers or 76ers) and opt to settle for the MLE, there are surefire playoff teams out there that can offer the two of them major roles. The Pistons will be at the back of the line.

[ImHeisenberg]

At this point, the Pistons would be better served moving this franchise to Seattle and opening an expansion team in its place. We'd get out from under a bad owner, bad management and horrendous contracts.

[Canadafan]

Use our MLE on Mario Hezonja. And to resign Tolliver.
The end of offseason

[Crymson]

Use our MLE on Mario Hezonja. And to resign Tolliver.
The end of offseason

Hezonja isn't fit to start; he's a mediocre shooter and a poor defender. So we'll be left with a single viable starting small forward: that's Johnson, and unless he makes a ton of progress on his offensive game over the summer, he can't be on the floor with Griffin and Drummond. Meanwhile, we'll have a physically inferior backup wing rotation with Kennard and Hezonja. We'll also have no backup center; though Van Gundy may claim otherwise, Leuer is neither big nor strong nor athletic enough to play the position. And so we'll be forced to rely in large part on Moreland, who isn't likely to ever be fit more than a third-string role. Meanwhile, we'll be three-deep at power forward. I guess that'll provide insurance for Griffin's inevitable injuries.

After that, I guess we'll pray for good health for a team that has suffered hugely from injuries over the past two seasons yet inexplicably chose to make itself even more vulnerable to injury by trading for the notoriously injury-prone Blake Griffin. Excellent.

Nothing about this organization makes sense. That's probably why it's one of the NBA's laughingstocks. Over the past decade, only the Kings have toiled in greater futility than the Pistons.

[Canadafan]

Ya i meant that in a sad way that that's about the extent of what we'll be able to do. Wasn't necessarily saying it was a good thing

[stylesofpunk]

Just totally spitballing here but I wonder if since Orlando is not much of a place for FA if they would entertain a Vucevic/Ross for Drummond/SJ trade

I like Drummond over Griffin myself but I think Drummond could be had easier then Griffin

Vuc
Griffin
Bullock
Kennard
RJ

while Orlando rolls with Drummond/Isaac(if Gordon dont resign)/SJ/Fournier/(Trae Young)


Like I said spit balling but I think our team could be improved even if SVG stays since he would have a RJ PnR 3 pt shooting team

[A_dub06]

Just totally spitballing here but I wonder if since Orlando is not much of a place for FA if they would entertain a Vucevic/Ross for Drummond/SJ trade

I like Drummond over Griffin myself but I think Drummond could be had easier then Griffin

Vuc
Griffin
Bullock
Kennard
RJ

while Orlando rolls with Drummond/Isaac(if Gordon dont resign)/SJ/Fournier/(Trae Young)


Like I said spit balling but I think our team could be improved even if SVG stays since he would have a RJ PnR 3 pt shooting team

You can’t be a Pistons fan because this trade is rubbish. Trading Blake would be far better than trading Drummond, although I admit most should go a we should embrace a rebuild in which case we would be trading them for young players or picks, not simply for guys that expire sooner as cap space means sweet f all in Detroit.


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[Crymson]

Ya i meant that in a sad way that that's about the extent of what we'll be able to do. Wasn't necessarily saying it was a good thing

Fair enough.

Just totally spitballing here but I wonder if since Orlando is not much of a place for FA if they would entertain a Vucevic/Ross for Drummond/SJ trade

No. First off, Vucevic isn't good. He's a decent mid-range and post scorer, but that's all he provides over Drummond. His post skills will be wasted with Griffin on the floor, he cannot shoot threes with anything near acceptable efficiency, he is a miserably bad defender, and he's not very athletic. He is also nowhere near Drummond's quality as a roll man. Nor is Griffin.

He'd give the Pistons more mid-range offense, but mid-range offense isn't valuable in today's NBA. He'd be substantially worse in every other capacity.

Terrence Ross isn't anywhere near valuable enough to compensate.

[stylesofpunk]

Ya i meant that in a sad way that that's about the extent of what we'll be able to do. Wasn't necessarily saying it was a good thing

Fair enough.

Just totally spitballing here but I wonder if since Orlando is not much of a place for FA if they would entertain a Vucevic/Ross for Drummond/SJ trade

No. First off, Vucevic isn't good. He's a decent mid-range and post scorer, but that's all he provides over Drummond. His post skills will be wasted with Griffin on the floor, he cannot shoot threes with anything near acceptable efficiency, he is a miserably bad defender, and he's not very athletic. He is also nowhere near Drummond's quality as a roll man. Nor is Griffin.

He'd give the Pistons more mid-range offense, but mid-range offense isn't valuable in today's NBA. He'd be substantially worse in every other capacity.

Terrence Ross isn't anywhere near valuable enough to compensate.

Like i said spit balling because we need to do something with this team. one of drummond/griffin need to go and a 3 pt range bigman needs to come back in it

[Crymson]

Like i said spit balling because we need to do something with this team. one of drummond/griffin need to go and a 3 pt range bigman needs to come back in it

The best course for the future of this organization is to dump Griffin as soon as possible, even if he must be dumped for nothing. This would free the Pistons from the four years remaining on his contract, allow Drummond to return to the role in which he excelled, and afford the organization some flexibility this summer. But I strongly doubt that Tom Gores would allow it. Trading Drummond would require the Pistons to sell low; this summer's free agent and draft classes are both rich in capable big men. There's no viable way out of this situation right now.

[stylesofpunk]

Like i said spit balling because we need to do something with this team. one of drummond/griffin need to go and a 3 pt range bigman needs to come back in it

The best course for the future of this organization is to dump Griffin as soon as possible, even if he must be dumped for nothing. This would free the Pistons from the four years remaining on his contract, allow Drummond to return to the role in which he excelled, and afford the organization some flexibility this summer. But I strongly doubt that Tom Gores would allow it. Trading Drummond would require the Pistons to sell low; this summer's free agent and draft classes are both rich in capable big men. There's no viable way out of this situation right now.

Trying to think who would be interested in Griffin a contender with a need for a ball dominant PF

[Snakebites]

At this point, the Pistons would be better served moving this franchise to Seattle and opening an expansion team in its place. We'd get out from under a bad owner, bad management and horrendous contracts.

Agreed.

Our team in terms of player personnel has net negative assets. Rebooting Cleveland Browns style and starting from scratch would be an amazing move.

[theBigLip]

I think we don't have a lot of options for next season. We need a healthy Reggie and a full training camp with our team together. I'm pretty sure that gets us into the playoffs and if everyone stays healthy, it also helps everyone's trade value.

Nothing about the playoffs is guaranteed for this team, and "If everyone stays healthy" is a big "if" for any team---and even bigger for this organization, including as it does a point guard with a degenerative knee condition and a maxed power forward whom one can count on to miss at least 20 games per season.

Nobody on the roster has much trade value. That's unlikely to change with a healthy season. Bullock, Johnson, and Ish are on the final seasons of their deals, Andre will have only one guaranteed season left after this one, Jackson will remain a middling point guard with major injury concerns, and nobody's likely to jump at the chance to pay Griffin more than $100 million on the final three seasons of his deal. Only Kennard and possibly Ellenson will have any significant value, and not much at that.

I agree there isn't much trade value now. But I totally disagree that a playoff season wouldn't help. Jackson in particular - if he plays a full season, and leads the team to the playoffs? It certainly improves. If Blake plays a full season? I know there are a lot of "ifs" but we got to see where we get to by the trade deadline. Blowing it up now is totally selling low.

[mercury]

The best case scenario is to move the largest contracts for equally bad contracts with one or two year less on the term (most likely for players that sucks ass). Hopefully this lands the team a decent lotto pick. I would keep Dre... at worse he is certainly a good trade chip (still think his best days are coming).
Acquiring Melo's expiring would go a long way if the price was right.
As far as needs this would be length and shooting at SF and a PG playmaker that doesn't embarrass as a defender.